8 gauge wire implications with a Tesla Gen 3 Charger

[GigaToronto]

I paid my electrician to install a nema 14-50 outlet with 8 gauge wire instead of 6 gauge as I thought I would just use the mobile connector with the adapter to charge. My EDD is May 6 for the MYLR and with the news that Tesla won't include the mobile connector with a car purchase anymore, I was thinking it is almost the same price to buy a gen3 Tesla charger vs a mobile connector. Now if I consider installing a charger with the 8 gauge wire, is this still possible? If so, what would be the possible draw backs with this setup?

 

[SambaMystic]

Did your installation of the Mobile Connector include supporting the Mobile Connector chassis (electronics unit) or was the Mobile Connector let to hang supported by just the power plug pigtail?

The plug and receptacle are not designed to support additional weight. For best long term reliability the Moibile Connector chassis should be mounted to the wall or otherwise supported.

The Tesla Cable Organizer includes a wall bracket for the Mobile Connector Chassis (see photo #2)

Cable Organizer

I had no clue about this. Yes, it's been hanging for 3 1/2 years. Ugh. I'm going to order this Cable Organizer right now. Thank you!!! That all makes perfect sense.

 

[dmurphy]

ESA inspectors fail this because of the wifi circuit adjustment on the gen3. Anyone with a phone can change the circuit size and cause a problem.
The gen2 had an internal pot adjustment that is mentioned in the Q and A section and is acceptable.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but that thinking is ridiculous.

Not “anyone with a phone” can change it …. It’s password protected.

I can make an argument that it’s actually *safer* since anyone with a torx head screwdriver could adjust the potentiometer on the Gen2, no authentication needed.

Silly.

 

[MattM24]

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but that thinking is ridiculous.

Not “anyone with a phone” can change it …. It’s password protected.

I can make an argument that it’s actually *safer* since anyone with a torx head screwdriver could adjust the potentiometer on the Gen2, no authentication needed.

Silly.

I agree with you. I’ve just watched people fail ESA inspections because of it and wanted to inform someone before it happens.

 

[Sophias_dad]

ESA inspectors fail this because of the wifi circuit adjustment on the gen3. Anyone with a phone can change the circuit size and cause a problem.
The gen2 had an internal pot adjustment that is mentioned in the Q and A section and is acceptable.

Yes, I suspected that might be it. I'd argue that the 'tool' you need to change the setting is your phone, and you need access to the device in person before you can connect to the wifi to reconfigure it.

Additionally, as long as the breaker is properly sized for the wire, the absolute worst that could happen is the breaker would trip.

But I'm not an inspector and I don't make the rules they follow. It doesn't mean I can't think the rules are stupid.

 

[dmurphy]

I agree with you. I’ve just watched people fail ESA inspections because of it and wanted to inform someone before it happens.

I hope I didn’t come off as blaming you or anything like that — wasn’t my intent at all!

It just boggles my mind that here, in 2022, we still have inspectors and regulations that don’t accept digital controls. Never mind that SCADA systems and PLCs have been running the power grid for decades …

 

[MattM24]

Yes, I suspected that might be it. I'd argue that the 'tool' you need to change the setting is your phone, and you need access to the device in person before you can connect to the wifi to reconfigure it.

Additionally, as long as the breaker is properly sized for the wire, the absolute worst that could happen is the breaker would trip.

But I'm not an inspector and I don't make the rules they follow. It doesn't mean I can't think the rules are stupid.

There’s no arguing ESA Inspectors on this. These bulletins are to clarify new requirements and they specify a pot.
The assumption on the breaker be correctly sized is still a risk. Breakers aren’t made to be used that way.
Your protection is really only not changing the settings to something that your wiring can’t support. Even so, if you move, the next person to move in could be inclined to change the settings with a phone.
At least you can use 6/2 or 6/3 NMD90 to run the circuit in Ontario.

 

[terranx]

Even so, if you move, the next person to move in could be inclined to change the settings with a phone.

Next person could also be inclined to turn a pot too. Just a silly policy all around.

 

[Sophias_dad]

The assumption on the breaker be correctly sized is still a risk. Breakers aren’t made to be used that way.

Presumably while the inspector is there they will be able to look at the breaker and then it's no longer an assumption.

To my knowledge, breakers are made exactly to be used that way. They protect the wire(and to a lesser extent, the hardwired equipment on the other end) from overload. Taken to the extreme, lets suppose you have that 60 amp breaker connected to entirely acceptable 6 gauge wire, and then an axe happens to fall on the wire, or someone drives a nice 10 penny nail through it. Either the connection is good enough so the breaker blows quickly, or its not and the nail heats up until a fire starts(or it fuses out of existence).

The reason I mention the equipment on the other end is that the internal wiring on appliance X is only rated to support so much current, usually specified via some max breaker setting in the install manual. If you were to install a nice 100A or 200A service going to that equipment and something dreadful occurred within that equipment, it's internal wiring could overheat and cause a fire.

 

[STS-134]

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but that thinking is ridiculous.

Not “anyone with a phone” can change it …. It’s password protected.

I can make an argument that it’s actually *safer* since anyone with a torx head screwdriver could adjust the potentiometer on the Gen2, no authentication needed.

Silly.

You're assuming that Tesla's software people are competent. They're not. The settings could get dumped when the WC's firmware gets upgraded, reverting it to 48A.

 

[terranx]

You're assuming that Tesla's software people are competent. They're not. The settings could get dumped when the WC's firmware gets upgraded, reverting it to 48A.

You realize software has to interpret the rotary switch as well, right? It’s not physically doing anything to limit the current draw. A software update that breaks the interpretation of an nvram variable is just as likely to break the interpretation of a rotary switch.

 

[Sophias_dad]

You realize software has to interpret the rotary switch as well, right? It’s not physically doing anything to limit the current draw. A software update that breaks the interpretation of an nvram variable is just as likely to break the interpretation of a rotary switch.

There were never software updates available for the Gen2 HPWC. What you got from the factory is what it lived with forever unless maybe the Tesla connected to them was capable of doing the update to the HPWC, which is extremely unlikely.

 

[jcanoe]

I had no clue about this. Yes, it's been hanging for 3 1/2 years. Ugh. I'm going to order this Cable Organizer right now. Thank you!!! That all makes perfect sense.

The Tesla Cable Organizer is one option. You can find similar cable organizer kits for sale on Amazon, eBay usually for less.

 

[terranx]

There were never software updates available for the Gen2 HPWC. What you got from the factory is what it lived with forever unless maybe the Tesla connected to them was capable of doing the update to the HPWC, which is extremely unlikely.

The point is whether they used a rotary switch in the Gen 3 vs configuring it through the web portal, there would have been no difference. Whichever boomer is in charge of interpreting the code in Canada is just an idiot.

 

[dmurphy]

There were never software updates available for the Gen2 HPWC. What you got from the factory is what it lived with forever unless maybe the Tesla connected to them was capable of doing the update to the HPWC, which is extremely unlikely.

That’s actually EXACTLY what happens. The Tesla vehicle pushes firmware across to the Gen2 HPWC.
I forget the exact wording of the message (Charger update in progress or something like that) - but if you’re lucky enough to be in the vehicle when it’s happening, you’ll see the alert about it.

If you call into the charging team, they can login to the vehicle and observe the HPWC - status, firmware version - and even reboot and push firmware to it.

The Gen2’s aren’t quite as “dumb” as they appear.

 

[MattM24]

Next person could also be inclined to turn a pot too. Just a silly policy all around.

I agree

Presumably while the inspector is there they will be able to look at the breaker and then it's no longer an assumption.

To my knowledge, breakers are made exactly to be used that way. They protect the wire(and to a lesser extent, the hardwired equipment on the other end) from overload. Taken to the extreme, lets suppose you have that 60 amp breaker connected to entirely acceptable 6 gauge wire, and then an axe happens to fall on the wire, or someone drives a nice 10 penny nail through it. Either the connection is good enough so the breaker blows quickly, or its not and the nail heats up until a fire starts(or it fuses out of existence).

The reason I mention the equipment on the other end is that the internal wiring on appliance X is only rated to support so much current, usually specified via some max breaker setting in the install manual. If you were to install a nice 100A or 200A service going to that equipment and something dreadful occurred within that equipment, it's internal wiring could overheat and cause a fire.

I can’t remember what point I was trying to make with that sentence.
The rule doesn’t make any sense. It’s just the rule.