80A to 72A downgrade

[FlasherZ]

The new wall connector also says it can run at 277V for commercial installations, and 277V*72A is still about 20kW charging. So hopefully new commercial installs will put them on their 277/480V panels. It will also be interesting to see if the old chargers will do 11/22kW (277V*40/80A), or just limit down to 10/20kW still.

If it holds to what they do with Model X, at 277V you will be limited to 63A.

As a result, there is no reason for people to do crazy stuff like put boost transformers on their circuits on the newer cars to gain a few minutes at a significant efficiency loss.

 

[tga]

If it holds to what they do with Model X, at 277V you will be limited to 63A.

As a result, there is no reason for people to do crazy stuff like put boost transformers on their circuits on the newer cars to gain a few minutes at a significant efficiency loss.

At 17.5kW and 72A limits, that means voltages above 17500/72 = 243V are pointless. So yeah, don't do that...

 

[scaesare]

Maybe the X could only fit one charger. Probably even more so for the 3. 72A was the best they could get in the space.

I also recall that space was a consideration discussed in the X design...

 

[scaesare]

The new wall connector also says it can run at 277V for commercial installations, and 277V*72A is still about 20kW charging. So hopefully new commercial installs will put them on their 277/480V panels. It will also be interesting to see if the old chargers will do 11/22kW (277V*40/80A), or just limit down to 10/20kW still.

Interestingly, even with the latest Superchargers being billed as 135KW units, it's my understanding they still only use a dozen of the chargers in each stack still.

So while the in-car units appear to throttle down current at higher voltages to keep to a ~10kW output, I'd bet that they are capable of running at 277V/40A and do so in the Supercharger cabinets for a total output of 11.08kW, rendering a total output of 132.96kW for the cabinet. That's close enough to round up to 135.

 

[FlasherZ]

Interestingly, even with the latest Superchargers being billed as 135KW units, it's my understanding they still only use a dozen of the chargers in each stack still.

So while the in-car units appear to throttle down current at higher voltages to keep to a ~10kW output, I'd bet that they are capable of running at 277V/40A and do so in the Supercharger cabinets for a total output of 11.08kW, rendering a total output of 132.96kW for the cabinet. That's close enough to round up to 135.

Yes, superchargers use the 277V L-N from 480V277Y power, or they can use a 240V L-L delta configuration.

 

[scaesare]

Yes, superchargers use the 277V L-N from 480V277Y power, or they can use a 240V L-L delta configuration.

Right... I believe it was one of your previous posts that had confirmed that for me. Thanks.

I was simply pointing out the evidence that the chargers appear to be capable of ~11kW output, even if they are configured to limit output for the in-car scenario. I expect they do so to protect the HPWC more so than anything to do with themselves.

 

[FlasherZ]

Right... I believe it was one of your previous posts that had confirmed that for me. Thanks.

I was simply pointing out the evidence that the chargers appear to be capable of ~11kW output, even if they are configured to limit output for the in-car scenario. I expect they do so to protect the HPWC more so than anything to do with themselves.

For what it's worth, my Sig Model S hasn't limited at higher voltages -- I saw my usual 79A reported even at 256V, which exceeds 20 kW.

 

[Edmond]

FlasherZ, is there any way to get 80A to the car without the HPWC? Is the 14-50 indeed limited to 50A? What gauge wire for 50A? For 80?

 

[FlasherZ]

FlasherZ, is there any way to get 80A to the car without the HPWC? Is the 14-50 indeed limited to 50A? What gauge wire for 50A? For 80?

Another option is to use another 80A-capable EVSE, like the Clipper Creek CS-100:
ClipperCreek | EV Charging Stations | EVSE | Electric Vehicle Charging
It would use your J1772 adapter to connect to the car.
However, every EVSE device that I've seen at 80A is far more expensive than Tesla's.

NEMA 14-50's are limited to 40A charging (50A circuit rating considering 125% requirement for continuous loads) maximum.

There is a 60A receptacle configuration called 14-60, but the Tesla UMC is limited to 40A and they don't make an adapter for that, so it won't help you.

For 40A charging / 50A continuous load rating, if wire-in-conduit you can use #8; if NM cable (Romex), you must use #6.

The FAQ (see my signature below) can answer some of these questions for you.

 

[MP3Mike]

I was simply pointing out the evidence that the chargers appear to be capable of ~11kW output, even if they are configured to limit output for the in-car scenario. I expect they do so to protect the HPWC more so than anything to do with themselves.

Correct the old 40A chargers aren't limited, but the new 48A/72A ones appear to be.

 

[AWDtsla]

I wonder when they're going to update: Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors

 

[sorka]

I'm just glad I can charge at 80A at home. Comes in handy when I drive my 130 miles home from work and then need to charge again before heading out on a weekend trip.

 

[scaesare]

Correct the old 40A chargers aren't limited, but the new 48A/72A ones appear to be.

Well the old ones appeared to be limited when installed in the car, just not the superchargers.

Somebody tested running them at 277V, and found they wouldn't hit a full 80A in a dual-charger setup..

What I can't recall is if attempting to run one charger at 277V/40A works... it might if the limiting is designed to keep the overall power through the HPWC from exceeding 20KW.

 

[AWDtsla]

I'm just glad I can charge at 80A at home. Comes in handy when I drive my 130 miles home from work and then need to charge again before heading out on a weekend trip.

Now that I have an HPWC on order I will probably get dual chargers, just because I can. But economically it's a pretty dumb decision, given expansion of the supercharger network. They've placed the superchargers so close, that it really isn't a problem making it to a supercharger in any direction with very few miles left.

Does anyone have conclusive answer on what 40A, 48A, 72A chargers weigh?

 

[TexasEV]

Now that I have an HPWC on order I will probably get dual chargers, just because I can. But economically it's a pretty dumb decision, given expansion of the supercharger network. They've placed the superchargers so close, that it really isn't a problem making it to a supercharger in any direction with very few miles left.

That is not true in most of the country.

 

[zax123]

That is not true in most of the country.

... or in Canada.

 

[AWDtsla]

That is not true in most of the country.

Yet.

And if places still remain in 2017, chances of finding a charger >30A are still low. Pretty much every public charger I've found has been 200V@30A, usually with a leaf or a volt attached to it pulling a fraction of that. If anything Tesla will release a CCS adapter that bypasses the on-board chargers anyway.

 

[TexasEV]

Yet.

And if places still remain in 2017, chances of finding a charger >30A are still low. Pretty much every public charger I've found has been 200V@30A, usually with a leaf or a volt attached to it pulling a fraction of that. If anything Tesla will release a CCS adapter that bypasses the on-board chargers anyway.

CCS charging stations are even more rare than high amp level 2, and most have been co-located with CHAdeMO so if you have that adapter you're covered.

Experience has taught most of us outside of California not to drink the supercharger kool-aid. That's why there was such an uproar when Tesla said Model X didn't need more than 48A charging.

 

[jerry33]

Now that I have an HPWC on order I will probably get dual chargers, just because I can. But economically it's a pretty dumb decision, given expansion of the supercharger network. They've placed the superchargers so close, that it really isn't a problem making it to a supercharger in any direction with very few miles left.

1. Even if there was a SC every mile, when on a trip it's still more convenient to use destination charging.

2. There have been times when SCs have broken down, you'll really appreciate the higher rate of charge that the dual chargers have.

3. Unless you live in So. Cal. SCs aren't really all that close and there are many routes with no SCs at all.

 

[Bipo]

In Europe we are plently of 3x32Ax230V changing points, so for us scaling back from 22 kW to 16.5 kW is really inconvenient...

Tesla should have thinked about that before spoiling the S with this "upgrade"