Model X 90kWh battery pack degradation

[scottf200]

Hi all. I have noticed rather extreme degradation of my 90 battery pack on the X (P90D). The car was purchased last March has 24k miles.
At [100%] full charge was about 255 miles full charge and 90% was 225.
Now, it’s 235 for a full charge and 208 for 90%.

Here is the data for my [RIP] P90D. I thought mine was going 'fast' but yours is after.

Me - Mar 03, 2016 00K miles 90% shows 224 mi (224.0/9*10=248.88 @ 100%)

Me - Dec 08, 2016 22K miles 90% shows 217 mi ( 240.00 @ 100%)
You- Dec 18, 2017 24K miles 90% shows 208 mi

Me - Mar 24, 2017 28K miles 90% shows 213 mi (213.3/9*10=236.60 @ 100%)

 

[verygreen]

I assume all interested parties here already saw this post about how 90kWh batteries are degrading superfast (as are 75kWh ones) relative to all others?

Tesla's 85 kWh rating needs an asterisk (up to 81 kWh, with up to ~77 kWh usable)

 

[shadows]

Posted this in another forum as well... Taking it to Tesla will be a completely useless exercise. They study all your logs, driving habits, ask you to a range charge (bring it close to 0 and take it to 100%) 3 consecutive times, and at the end of it all, they just say the battery is looking good and nothing can be done. After performing all of these, I lost a bit more than what it was when I initially took it to them. I have a 75D, and my loss over an year and half with around 24k miles, is 10%. There is no rhyme or logic provided as to why. I have lifetime 285 wh/m... IMHO, no one in Tesla SC understand battery technology, nor can they provide any logical reasoning. I asked them when do I press panic button.. they don't have any answer to that either.. and obviously, degradation is not covered as part of warranty, which they made clear during my conversations.

I may end up with usable range of 100 miles in a couple of years, and they may still say it is operating within normal median range. There is definitely a global issue I am seeing with many Model X's sold during a specific timeframe, and Tesla is trying to cover it all up. If we don't speak, we are going to hold an expensive brick in a few years.

 

[KOL2000]

Well we are speaking but these complaints are buried in a subforum. The service centers are overwhelmed the factory is overwhelmed - Elon is going to mars digging holes and doing so many other things that I doubt this will ever get any attention.

Best immediate option would be to sell the car while it still has 72 kWh available and get a 100D.

 

[David99]

Best immediate option would be to sell the car while it still has 72 kWh available and get a 100D.

This can't be the solution. We can't be buying new cars to get them fixed. Even Tesla suggest that. Last time I went to the service center they suggested to buy a new one when I told them about the issues I have.

 

[verygreen]

This can't be the solution. We can't be buying new cars to get them fixed. Even Tesla suggest that. Last time I went to the service center they suggested to buy a new one when I told them about the issues I have.

Sure thing they can! They need to buy back your car for the price you paid minus reasonable usage fee based on mileage. Lemon law buyback is one of that names for this.

 

[David99]

Sure thing they can! They need to buy back your car for the price you paid minus reasonable usage fee based on mileage. Lemon law buyback is one of that names for this.

By the time the battery degradation becomes an issue it's too late for lemon law. I also don't think a 10% degradation would qualify.

 

[verygreen]

Some states give you two years for the lemon law claim. so you often can claim even after one year as long as the problems started in the first year

 

[apacheguy]

I suspect that lemon law application would be difficult in this case. The car basically has to be inoperable or have spent over 30 cumulative days in a service center.

 

[verygreen]

I suspect that lemon law application would be difficult in this case. The car basically has to be inoperable or have spent over 30 cumulative days in a service center.

I bet it's jurisdiction-specific.

in TN for example, anything that causes the car to lose a lot of value is eligible. As you might imagine, severely degraded battery in an EV is going to do wonders to the values of said EV.

 

[davidc18]

Each state is different. This year in florida one MS was successfully lemon lawed for a noisy air conditioner. Remember it is not up to you to decide if your car qualifies, that is the job of the arbitration board. They are very consumer friendly here in florida. Check with your states AG website for details. They are all public documents. Don't take my word for it, do the checking yourself.

 

[Epymian]

I got a "battery failure warning - avoid hard acceleration" on my dash one month ago. Tesla service advised that I need a main battery replacement and this is on order. The car P90DL is fully driveable and I simply took it out of ludicrous mode. I have noticed range deterioration over the last 6 months (car build ~April 16) and assume that my model has the battery deterioration mentioned. It also must be PK1 since I was unable to upgrade to the 100 battery as my "VIN was not compatible".

It is unfortunate this is happening but I applaud Tesla for replacing the battery under warranty in my case. The SC has been fantastic to deal with in Vancouver as well. I hope the new batteries are more robust but mine is a 3 year lease and will likely trade in for a 2019/20 model when the time comes anyway.

 

[jeffro01]

Posted this in another forum as well... Taking it to Tesla will be a completely useless exercise. They study all your logs, driving habits, ask you to a range charge (bring it close to 0 and take it to 100%) 3 consecutive times, and at the end of it all, they just say the battery is looking good and nothing can be done. After performing all of these, I lost a bit more than what it was when I initially took it to them. I have a 75D, and my loss over an year and half with around 24k miles, is 10%. There is no rhyme or logic provided as to why. I have lifetime 285 wh/m... IMHO, no one in Tesla SC understand battery technology, nor can they provide any logical reasoning. I asked them when do I press panic button.. they don't have any answer to that either.. and obviously, degradation is not covered as part of warranty, which they made clear during my conversations.

I may end up with usable range of 100 miles in a couple of years, and they may still say it is operating within normal median range. There is definitely a global issue I am seeing with many Model X's sold during a specific timeframe, and Tesla is trying to cover it all up. If we don't speak, we are going to hold an expensive brick in a few years.

Calm down... That's a heck of a lot of FUD in one post... No, you're usable range is not going to be as low as 100 miles in a couple of years. The "global" issue you speak of is the 1st gen 90 packs (I have one in my Model S) and while the degradation is a tick higher than the other batteries with some being more extreme than others, it's no where near severe enough to label it a cover up.

Battery technology is hard, it's nearly impossible to get an exact accurate reading of what's left and how long that will last you in miles. That's just the reality of it. My Model S 90D currently sits at 240 miles when at 90% and while that doesn't really translate to a Model X, it has been extremely steady at that 240 (occasionally dips to 237) for the last year and I'm over 2 yrs into ownership.

Jeff

 

[Epymian]

Agree with Jeffro.

I don't think many have seen the battery warning I have now on my dash but probably Tesla has identified loss of capacity might be an issue and triggered an alert before the battery degrades significantly so you can arrange warranty replacement. I have read a lot of complaints on the forums over the past 2 years but in my experience the issues I have had with the car (front door sensor, half shaft rumble, FWD alignment and now battery) have been fixed without question. My only issue is the SC is 4 hours away by car but I knew that when I bought my MX so that is that.

In 2-3 years we will have double the range with improved battery technology and it will not stop there.

I also appreciate Shadows is frustrated with his experience and hope that things will work out in the end for his car. Not all of us have had a smooth ride.

 

[shadows]

Agree with Jeffro.

I don't think many have seen the battery warning I have now on my dash but probably Tesla has identified loss of capacity might be an issue and triggered an alert before the battery degrades significantly so you can arrange warranty replacement. I have read a lot of complaints on the forums over the past 2 years but in my experience the issues I have had with the car (front door sensor, half shaft rumble, FWD alignment and now battery) have been fixed without question. My only issue is the SC is 4 hours away by car but I knew that when I bought my MX so that is that.

In 2-3 years we will have double the range with improved battery technology and it will not stop there.

I also appreciate Shadows is frustrated with his experience and hope that things will work out in the end for his car. Not all of us have had a smooth ride.

Appreciate the response. I was just venting out on the fact that there is absolutely no logical explanation. My recent career is based on data science and pattern recognition, but battery degradation in my X is stumping me. If someone explains something like, these driving habits, these charging habits or these climatic conditions impact the battery life, I would completely understand and move on. I have so much of data from my X, but there is just no pattern. My driving (lowest wh/m), charging (between 75 - 90% all the time) and everything around the maintenance is perfect according to Tesla, but the degradation is above normal (based on data from others). I love the car, enjoy the driving, on track to get a model 3 delivered in Jan, but utter lack of proper explanation from anyone is killing me.

 

[rkurtl]

Appreciate the response. I was just venting out on the fact that there is absolutely no logical explanation. My recent career is based on data science and pattern recognition, but battery degradation in my X is stumping me. If someone explains something like, these driving habits, these charging habits or these climatic conditions impact the battery life, I would completely understand and move on. I have so much of data from my X, but there is just no pattern. My driving (lowest wh/m), charging (between 75 - 90% all the time) and everything around the maintenance is perfect according to Tesla, but the degradation is above normal (based on data from others). I love the car, enjoy the driving, on track to get a model 3 delivered in Jan, but utter lack of proper explanation from anyone is killing me.

How about sampling error?

 

[KOL2000]

How about sampling error?

Nah. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Just like sampling error with initial quality problems and service centers being overwhelmed? No way. Both our Tesla’s were basically totally rebuilt because the factory did a sh$t job.

This battery problem on 90 batteries is real. Writing off these concerns as “sampling error” is not right.

 

[davidc18]

if your battery has dropped to less than 240 miles they owe you a new battery. many have been replaced with NDAs which is why you don't hear about it. It is also why the put the 70% guarantee on the M3 battery. PM is you need help.

 

[MP3Mike]

if your battery has dropped to less than 240 miles they owe you a new battery

What makes you say that? There is no warranty coverage for "gradual degradation" on the Model S/X.

 

[davidc18]

There is nothing gradual about that level of loss. Tesla has replaced 90 batteries for owners when they dropped below 250 miles.