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900 mile Supercharger road trip

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I looked at MikeK'S data in another way. I plotted the charged miles versus minutes elapsed.
The knack is in guessworking a "minutes elapsed since 0% SoC" for the start of every supercharging session so the lines fit together.

sc900.png


The result allows to estimate the required time to add x miles when arriving with a range of y miles. If someone wants the raw data to do that, please post here.
 
Mike: Thanks for reporting these detailed data!

I'm a little bit disappointed in the fact the the typical charge rate seems to be 2.6 miles per minute (78 miles in 30 minutes) with your best case being 3.4 miles per minute (102 miles in 30 minutes) which is quite a bit below Tesla's stated "150 miles in 30 minutes". It seems 150m/30min would imply from more or less 0% charge and with otherwise perfect conditions? On that note, it will be interesting to see real-life experiences with Supercharging in cold conditions, which is of importance to us here in the north of Europe. Chademo-enabled car owners are reporting way slower charging rates (with Chademo) at sub-zero (Celcius) temperatures, however, this is with cars (LEAF, MiEV/iOn/C-Zero) that doesn't have the advanced type of battery temperature management that the Model S has.
 
How many of the California Superchargers are solar?

I think that the "Solar-Powered Supercharger Network" actually means that SolarCity/Tesla will generate (on an annual basis) at least as many Solar kWhrs as the Supercharger Network consumes.

But most of those kWhrs will not be generated at SuperCharger sites. They will probably be generated in high solar incidence states with high Peak Load sell-back tariffs, centered around the Summer solstice.

Which is not to denigrate the public relations/marketing value of having PV panels installed at many (or even most) Supercharger sites. :wink:
 
Thanks MikeW for posting this, it's much appreciated. As my mouse is hovering over the 'Finalize' button, i'm scouring the forums for any type of real world examples that in can find to help me make my decision. Living close to the hills in Washington, it's really helpful to see the increase in Miles Consumed as your elevation gain changes drastically.

It seems 150m/30min would imply from more or less 0% charge and with otherwise perfect conditions?

I think this is exactly correct. Several different sources have stated that to prevent damage to the battery the charging rate (amperage?) decreases after 50%. It will, however, continue to charge faster than most other sources.

Perhaps the statement from Tesla could also be interpreted: "After 30 minutes of supercharging time, you'll at least have 50% battery".
 
As my mouse is hovering over the 'Finalize' button, i'm scouring the forums for any type of real world examples that in can find to help me make my decision. Living close to the hills in Washington, it's really helpful to see the increase in Miles Consumed as your elevation gain changes drastically.
What specific decision are you trying to make? Maybe we can assist.
Are you choosing between the 60 kWh and the 85 kWh? Or the 40 and the 60? Or a larger battery vs. other vehicle options?
 
I like VolkerP's charts, however there are too few data points. I would suspect the curves to be quite parabolic, with a much steeper recharge rate in the start (from 0% SOC) which then tapers off substantially towards the end. We have one (ideal) data point given by Tesla: you can replenish 150 miles in 30 minutes. So we know the curve will interect there.

What would be great, if someone had the time and interest to do it, would be to drive the car to a supercharger, driving it down to as close as possible to 0% SOC. Then start charging. Film the charging display with a video camera. Then make a time lapse of that or just click through the video minute-for-minute and take notes of all the data points. Then we would know what the curve looks like in real life.
 
What would be great, if someone had the time and interest to do it, would be to drive the car to a supercharger, driving it down to as close as possible to 0% SOC. Then start charging. Film the charging display with a video camera. Then make a time lapse of that or just click through the video minute-for-minute and take notes of all the data points. Then we would know what the curve looks like in real life.
If only we had a forum member that enjoyed filming everything about this particular vehicle and sharing.

Nah, we can't possibly have someone who would sit through over an hour filming a progress bar.

Maybe somebody in South Boston...
 
Range error is 15% .

As a reservation holder this actually makes me less inclined to purchase the car at this time [please let me know if you think my logic is faulty, I can take it]
The car began with a range of 240 miles and it's true range taking off 15% is more like 204. At 204 miles of true range I think I might want to wait for some advancements in battery technology, or the rumored 100w battery pack. Thoughts?
 
As a reservation holder this actually makes me less inclined to purchase the car at this time [please let me know if you think my logic is faulty, I can take it]
The car began with a range of 240 miles and it's true range taking off 15% is more like 204. At 204 miles of true range I think I might want to wait for some advancements in battery technology, or the rumored 100w battery pack. Thoughts?
It depends on how fast you want to drive on long trips. Once you get over 55 or so drag really starts to eat power.
My plan is to drive as I normally do (fairly fast) most of the time and plan out longer trips so I know where I'm going to charge and how fast I can go on the way. Personally I don't like driving over about 350 mi/day, so I'm hoping Tesla really is going to build several Superchargers on the East Coast.
 
If only we had a forum member that enjoyed filming everything about this particular vehicle and sharing.

Nah, we can't possibly have someone who would sit through over an hour filming a progress bar.

Maybe somebody in South Boston...

LOL. How right you are. I already committed to doing that in my own mind. Now it just needs to become operational! :smile:
 
I have taken the liberty to put the data in a spreadsheet for us to get a clear picture of how closely the range calculations match the actual miles driven.


View attachment 12372

So is it safe to say that one should always leave the supercharger site with 150 miles of range available on the car? I see that getting from Harris Ranch to/from Tejon Ranch consumes about that much.

What does that mean to people waiting for 60kWh cars? Will we be able to make it?

I see
 
So is it safe to say that one should always leave the supercharger site with 150 miles of range available on the car? I see that getting from Harris Ranch to/from Tejon Ranch consumes about that much.
That depends on where you're going next. If you just need an extra 50 miles of range to get to your final destination, no. If you're going to the next supercharger, then you need to know that distance. For example, Milford CT to Dover DE is 199 miles.

What does that mean to people waiting for 60kWh cars? Will we be able to make it?
Yes, but...

(1) Supercharging slows down as the battery's SOC rises. Therefore it's going to take 60kWh cars longer to get to the target range.
(2) You may need to drive more conservatively. If you drive at 75 mph, you're likely to get worse mileage than the rated range -- and a 60kWh car isn't going to have as much buffer as the 85kWh cars.
 
The one wrinkle in only supercharging what you need to get to the next SC is that you are not alone. My approach is to go to a range charge if the Supercharge site is open and no one is waiting. That way if the next site has a wait, I'll have less to charge once it becomes available. Something like making hay while the sun shines.
 
The one wrinkle in only supercharging what you need to get to the next SC is that you are not alone. My approach is to go to a range charge if the Supercharge site is open and no one is waiting. That way if the next site has a wait, I'll have less to charge once it becomes available. Something like making hay while the sun shines.

True - much like medical residency - the creed: eat when you can, sleep when you can. So be it - charge when you can.

145 miles from my place to Milton, CT, then 63 miles to where I stay in NYC (typically).
An easy ride from Boston. Charge once each way for 25 minutes.
Wait, that was what I did with my Volvo wagon on the same trip just eight weeks ago. Wow, this electric car thing might have legs.
 
I just replicated this trip on Friday and Saturday. Thanks to MikeW for posting the detailed charging/usage info, as it gave me the guideposts I needed to feel comfortable taking my first long distance all-electric road trip. The car performed extremely well with great performance and no glitches running 4.1 (1.19.31). But I got some interesting insights into the realities of supercharging and a bit of range anxiety. Some observations:

1) At freeway speeds of 70-75mph, some elevation change and temperatures mostly in the 40's, consumption averages right around 400 wh/mi. So the 300 mile "ideal"/265 mile "rated" battery is a 210 mile "real" battery.

2) Contrary to Elon's touting of being able to add 150 miles of range in 30 minutes, in most cases I spent 45 minutes charging in order to add enough range to go the 115 miles to the next supercharger location, with a 15 minute "splash and dash" to cover the 31 miles from Gilroy to home. On average my battery was at 31 miles of remaining range when I initiated charging.

3) There is little margin for error/unexpected circumstances. My first bit of range anxiety came when leaving San Jose at 5:30 am on Friday and hearing that I-5 was closed at the Grapevine. I knew there was a supercharger there, but I didn't know which side of the closure it was on. At my first charging stop, I called supercharger support and the helpful person determined that the closure was south of the charging station so I could continue on. Fortunately, when I reached my second charging stop at Tejon Ranch, the road had reopened. If it had remained closed, I would have been stuck, because even with a full battery I would have been unable to reach the supercharger at SpaceX if I had to take the 2 hour detour west to 101. My second bit of range anxiety was self inflicted. On the way home from Tejon Ranch to Harris Ranch, I left the supercharger with 157 miles of rated range to cover 115 miles, knowing that the initial gradient was downhill. It fact there was a lot of additional up and down, and with 25 miles to go I had 25 miles of rated range. So I slowed to 55 mph and managed to reach the charger with 1 mile of rated range left. Won't do that again!

4) The superchargers are indeed siamesed, and the second car plugging into a supercharger gets less juice. I pulled in next to another Model S at Tejon Ranch and after 10 minutes noticed I was only getting 100 amps. He was still getting around 190 if I remember correctly. So I moved to the farthest charging stall and quickly ramped up to 250 amps.

5) The single supercharger at Harris Ranch is a huge bottleneck in the network. The fellow Model S owner arrived at Harris Ranch shortly before I did, and I had to wait 45 minutes to get access to the supercharger. So instead of a 45 minute stop, it took me 1 1/2 hours. Fortunately, Harris Ranch serves good food and the NFL playoffs were on. Nonetheless, if Tesla doesn't fix this before the summer driving season, there will be some unhappy owners. Can you imagine taking the family to Disneyland and having to wait 1-2 hours at your first charging stop?

6) Model S owners are really nice people. I had very pleasant conversations with a Delta Airlines pilot at SpaceX, a Silicon Valley entrepreneur returning from CES at Tejon Ranch and Harris Ranch, and a Tesla mechanical engineer at Gilroy.

7) The lack of charging at destinations is an issue. I used a Chargepoint station at my dinner spot to get enough range to make it to SpaceX for my return trip. The owner who went to CES could only charge on 110 at his Vegas hotel, left for Barstow with only 200 miles of range, and had to drive with no heat and draft semis in order to coast into Barstow with 1 mile of range left.

8) Taking a trip outside of your charge-at-home radius requires planning and patience. On my trip to LA I did 6 1/4 hours of driving and 1 1/2 hours of charging. On the return trip I did 6 1/4 hours of driving and 3 hours of charging/waiting. While that is not an issue for EV enthusiasts, it will most likely be one as Tesla tries to expand its market to the general buyers of luxury cars. And my experience was somewhat ideal, since I was following a route where the supercharger infrastructure is in completed form for the next several years, modulo adding chargers at Harris Ranch. Driving from Silicon Valley to Santa Barbara would have been much more difficult.

In summary, my first long distance EV trip was very successful and also eye opening. It made me realize that while Tesla has made long distance travel in EVs possible, we are still in the very early days of this.
 
I just replicated this trip on Friday and Saturday. Thanks to MikeW for posting the detailed charging/usage info, as it gave me the guideposts I needed to feel comfortable taking my first long distance all-electric road trip. The car performed extremely well with great performance and no glitches running 4.1 (1.19.31). But I got some interesting insights into the realities of supercharging and a bit of range anxiety.

Dennis, Thanks for sharing. I make this trip a few times per year and I'm planning on using my Model S for all future trips (My first one with the S will be in April). It's great to hear these real world experiences so I know what to expect and can plan accordingly.

7) The lack of charging at destinations is an issue. I used a Chargepoint station at my dinner spot to get enough range to make it to SpaceX for my return trip. The owner who went to CES could only charge on 110 at his Vegas hotel, left for Barstow with only 200 miles of range, and had to drive with no heat and draft semis in order to coast into Barstow with 1 mile of range left.

This is one of my biggest concerns with road tripping in the Model S. There is a total lack of charging stations at hotels where I would normally stay. My next trip is from SF Bay Area to Disneyland for a few days, then over to Palm Springs for a few days, then back home. There are no hotels in Anaheim that offer any kind of L2 charging. At best you may have a 110 plug, but that is not even guaranteed. I don't need those kind of headaches. So I'm planning on stopping at the Hawthorne super charger before checking into my hotel and doing a max range charge, which should hold me over a for my few days in Anaheim and have enough juice left for the drive to Palm Springs. A hotel charger would save me 60-90 minutes of sitting at Hawthorne with some potentially grumpy kids (does SpaceX offer tours?).