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90D Battery seems much smaller than rated..

Discussion in 'Model X' started by gearchruncher, Dec 23, 2016.

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  1. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

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    I just completed my first long-ish trip in my X90D.

    I fully charged last night to 100%. Woke up and it said fully charged.

    Took my drive today. About 150 miles in the cold, up and down a mountain. Got home with 11% on the battery.

    However, the trip computer says I used 66.5 KWh. If that's 89% of the battery, the battery is only 74.7 KWh.

    Now that the car is plugged in, charging at 6KWh (240V/25A), it says it will be done in 13 hours, 30 mins. Which is 91KWh for capacity (not including charging loss).

    What's going on?
     

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  2. Jrogville

    Jrogville Member

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    Did you use regenerative breaking on the down slopes? Is the regenerative set to 'Standard', which gives you the most charge recapture? From what I understand, in cold weather the car uses a lot of energy keeping the batteries warm.
     
  3. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Irrespective if you are using regen or heating the battery, if 66kWh corresponds to 89% then 100% is only 73kWh.

    Because the usage it displays (I believe) includes both propulsion and other consumption.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. wesley888

    wesley888 Member

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    I'm just guessing here since I've never looked closely to those numbers. That line of data only related to the trip. 66.5 KWh divided by 151.7 mi is 438.4 Wh/mi. So, the 66.5 KWh is only the wattage that went into the motor for the driving distance. The heat you used might not have been included in that reading. Again, just a wild guess.
     
  5. vandacca

    vandacca ReActive Member

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    Someone actually went to the trouble of finding out what the real battery capacities are. The P90D has a 85.8 kWh battery (81.8 kWh usable).
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    You get less energy out of a cold battery.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  7. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    source: Tesla’s hacked Battery Management System exposes the real usable capacity of its battery packs
    Full specs here, no need to guess

    • Original 60 – ~61 kWh total capacity, ~58.5 kWh usable.
    • 85/P85/85D/P85D – ~81.5 kWh total capacity, ~77.5 kWh usable
    • 90D/P90D – ~85.8 kWh total capacity, 81.8 kWh usable
    • Original 70 – ~71.2 kWh total capacity, 68.8 kWh usable
    • 75/75D – 75 kWh total capacity, 72.6 kWh usable
    • Software limited 60/60D – 62.4 kWh usable
    • Software limited 70/70D – 65.9 kWh usable
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  8. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    Actually, I think you mis-understand the data, and what it means. Capacity of the battery is just one side of the equation. Another side of the equation is how much energy you use per mile, as your attached photo clearly pointed out, you used 438 Wh/mile, which is quite high. It is totally normal since it is winter and your car need extra energy for heat etc, and the road surface has higher resistance because of snow/rain etc. If you drive aggressively, the Wh/mile number would go up as well (which means your range would decrease). Also, as someone pointed out, battery doesn't work as well in super cold weather.
     
  9. outie

    outie Active Member

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    The fact is there's about 82kWh usable on the 90D.
     
  10. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

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    Seems like there are two options here:

    1) Trip computer doesn't account for other losses like battery warming or interior heating. However, if true, why does Wh/Mi go off the charts if you sit stopped for a long time with the heater on?

    2) The battery is nowhere near 90KWh (or the 82KWh we know about)
     
  11. wesley888

    wesley888 Member

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    There is another option is that the battery have lower kWh in colder temperature.

    When I fly my quad in cold temperature, they don't last as long. My helmet cam also don't last long in winter time.
     
  12. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Like I said, batteries have lowered capacity (energy) at lowered temperatures. A fully charged battery that is rated to put out 3000mAh at 80F may only put out 2000mAh at 0F.

    The increase in Wh/mi that you see when driving in cold weather is from heating the cabin, heating the battery itself, and increased wind and rolling resistance. The decrease in available kWh (capacity) you see comes from the battery being cold.

    You can get more capacity out of a cold battery by using energy from it to heat it, which can actually net you more capacity than you are using in heating it.

    More info can be found here:
    Discharging at High and Low Temperatures

    "As all drivers in cold countries know, a warm battery cranks the car engine better than a cold one. Cold temperature increases the internal resistance and lowers the capacity. A battery that provides 100 percent capacity at 27°C (80°F) will typically deliver only 50 percent at –18°C (0°F). The momentary capacity-decrease differs with battery chemistry.

    EV drivers are being made aware that frigid temperature reduces the available mileage. This loss is not only caused by heating the cabin electrically but by the inherent slowing of the battery’s electrochemical reaction, which reduces the capacity while cold."
     
  13. KissSzabi

    KissSzabi Member

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    i have same problem :(
     
  14. travwill

    travwill Active Member

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    In reality, if capacity were to match actual badging, the 90kWh battery should have the 85 badge.
     
  15. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    This is because the trip meter does not work right, in addition to the capacity issues pointed out up above.
     
  16. keytalker

    keytalker Member

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    I wonder whether the contract has any fine print about the battery size. The ordering page still says 90kw battery. It's not that faithful and may face class action like the hard drive industry experienced before.

     
  17. Farnigus

    Farnigus Member

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    I have had the same problem -- the battery doesn't seem like it is as big as advertised. As others have pointed out, its only got 81 kWh usable. If you believe the trip meter and compare the "energy used" to the change in % on the battery meter, the battery seems like it is only an 70 kWh battery. It is not clear, though, if the trip meter calculation is wrong, or if the battery is actually smaller than you think.
     
  18. travwill

    travwill Active Member

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    9wWh refund in order for 90s? Agree though with all as it's basically impossible most of the time to get the rated miles stated.
     
  19. digicool

    digicool Member

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    I have raised this exact issue with my service center a couple of months ago and they did some tests and reported that my battery was doing very well when compared to the fleet. At that time I was averaging 370 Wh/Mile (June to October). Now I am routinely averaging 470Wh/Mile. My understanding is this number does not even include cabin conditioning power.

    At 100% charge, the rated miles are 257. When I tried to co-relate that number with consumed energy (kwh) numbers I arrived at a full usable capacity of 84kWh and rated miles being ~327 Wh/mile.

    Given it s < 40F these day, I am getting an effective 160miles out of my 90D. It is possible that I will get some 180 to 190 miles if I do a non-stop highway trip. I am glad I am not the only one upset about this. I would not be so upset if the rated numbers were more reasonable.
    There is a lot of confusion around the forum about what do the trip numbers really tell. It would help if Tesla can put out some detail about the battery consumption metrics.
     
  20. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    I have complained about this on the Tesla forum but I just got attacked because I must be at fault because I did not research more. I found that I lose 3-4 miles a night and I get around 30% less range due to the cold weather. Apparently this is normal but my gripe is Tesla nowhere explains that range is dramatically reduced in the cold and also when traveling higher than 70mph. Guess there is a reason in their Range Per Charge calculator they dont show any estimates at over 70mph. The flow of traffic in my area is 75 so those calculations dont show range at that speed.
     

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