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90D Range Refressh 300+ miles

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by supratachophobia, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    So, apparently, EPA tests are in and the refreshed 90D will do 300+ miles at 65mph on the highway. Does anyone know how this compares to the 90D pre-refresh: A) How far it goes @ 65mph, and B) Has pre-refresh been officially EPA tested so as to compare the 2?

    Second part of the question, are the battery part numbers between a classic 90D and a refreshed 90D identical? Or is there some Tom Foolery and the newer 90D is going farther because it might actually have more energy available to expend?
     
  2. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    I didn't know that there is already a classic 90d, mine is a 12/15 build is it a classic already?
    as for 300 miles, I doubt it, my 100% is 287 and on one long hop on a recent road trip that I probably averaged 65 MPH I think getting 265 miles would have been closer to my reality.
     
  3. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Apologies, I should have said pre-refresh instead of 'classic'. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how the nose cone alone can improve range by 15 miles. Thanks.
     
  4. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    The "Now Even More to Model S" e-mail from Tesla uses the phrase ‏"Get the classic before it’s gone". You're ok. :)
     
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  5. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    No problem, in that context I do have what is a classic s90d, I totally blanked out on the new face coming out. I don't think the new nose will enhance range that dramatically, if there is some range improvement I'd chalk it up to improvements in the battery pack.
     
  6. wdolson

    wdolson Active Member

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    It's also possible the latest firmware release improved the energy management a bit too.
     
  7. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Ok, so which is it and should classic 90D owners expect an improvement in range because of it?
     
  8. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Based on the article I read in Teslarati the EPA Rated Range is now 294 miles. They mentioned "ideal" in context to the 302 number. The article speculated that the main reason for the increase from 288 to 294 was improved aerodynamics on the refreshed 90D plus "improved torque management".

    I'm pretty sure the 302 was the ideal range because it said that was at 65 mph, 70 degrees F and Climate Control off. I'm sure we will see some real world numbers here shortly.
     
  9. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #9 ChadS, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
    Tesla has never been very clear on the numbers, but here is my guess:

    The new EPA rating is 294. That's only 2% over the old rating, so it could well be from slightly improved aero from the nose. However, the EPA "highway" rating is a mix of driving (and also includes some HVAC), and the Model S is so heavy that accelerating is costly. While a big car, the aero is very good so it is relatively good at steady-speed cruising. HERE are the EPA test details; it looks like almost half the time is under 50mph (average 48) with some speeding up and slowing down. They have separate HVAC and high-speed (with several) significant speed changes tests that they use to adjust the numbers.

    When most people ask about "range", they want to know what the car can do on the freeway (with over 200 miles, you are not likely to run out just driving around town). Tesla can actually do a little better than EPA on the freeway, at least at a not-too-high steady speed with HVAC off. So they have been quoting a "65mph freeway" number that is different than EPA. It's just slightly higher. That would explain the 302 "ideal" number. It really is attainable on flat ground in good weather, but it is not EPA which is the legal standard for comparisons, so they have to be careful about "advertising" it as the range.
     
  10. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Thanks for the breakdown, 294 seems pretty in-line with a nose refresh. I am curious about the torque management though. I know torque sleep as always been this Tesla term that can never be really verified in the real world with the exception of peoples ears listening to if the motors are on or off. Not exactly scientifically accurate....
     
  11. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #11 ChadS, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
    Apparently I guessed wrong about why there were two numbers (I was thrown off by the "65mph" comment). It looks like 294 is the combined EPA range, and 303 is the EPA highway range. 286 city. Cool.

    However, I was correct that highway is better than city for the Tesla (usually it is the other way for EVs, since most are lighter and less aero) and it does in fact turn out that Tesla's prediction (see bottom of the page) of a 90D with 19" wheels going 65mph with HVAC off at 70 degrees is...302 miles.

    It actually goes farther when it's hotter, if you leave the AC off. 317 miles at 110 degrees. Slow down to 55mph and you can go 380 miles. 455 miles at 45mph, but that would take 10 hours in the heat. Ugh.
     
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  12. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    380 miles at 55mph is about 7 hours of driving. In 110 temps with no AC. I realize you were just unraveling the theoretical numbers (which are very cool) but I started to imagine the hell of that reality.
     
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  13. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    You need to look around TMC more. ;)

    Chassis CAN Logging To ASCII Text Plus Graphing
     
  14. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    The new 19" wheels might be a factor as well.
     
  15. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    When you are as cool as chad, you don't even notice.
     
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  16. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    #16 supratachophobia, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
    I had no idea this was verified in such a way. In my defense, my time on here has been considerably less since the refresh of TMC. Do you know where the torque sleep discussion starts in that thread? And what is the TLDR? How much of an increase in range is it on average if that isn't readily obvious in the thread?
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    (1) My post was intended as an invitation more than a critique. :)
    (2) Some of them are here: Chassis CAN Logging To ASCII Text Plus Graphing
    (3) "TLDR" = too long didn't read
    (4) I don't recall seeing a discussion of that specifically in the thread... but my eyes do glaze over from time to time. ;)
     

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