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90D Range slowly declining

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...like I had when I ordered what was to have been my greatest toy.

I think you need to find a way to get over this. I know you feel slighted by Tesla but it's just not worth letting this minor issue ruin your otherwise enjoyment of the car.

Take this in to consideration - you could've been delivered a car that displayed the EPA (or promised or whatever) rated range upon delivery but then degraded quickly in the first year and lost 10 miles in the first year. Or, you could've been delivered a car that was always shy 8 miles of what you expected it to be but only lost 2 miles during the course of the first year. Either way you are in the same position at the end of year 1 and Tesla isn't going to do anything about either case.

It's just not worth letting it interfere with the enjoyment of the car. If you let stuff like this eat at you to the point where you don't want a Tesla anymore what would you get to replace it?

Mike

EDIT: I did not mean this post in any way berate or otherwise minimize any concerns you guys have just saying that IMO it is likely Tesla will never do anything about it.
 
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So you're currently within 2 miles of the 90% theoretical target from Tesla marketing and within 3 miles of the 100% theoretical target from Tesla marketing, and you feel that's not good enough? Do you expect an ICE with a 25mpg rating to get exactly that, and would you be upset if it were actually 24.8mpg, and would you even notice?
I won't get into food fights, so suggest you may want to read background from a umber of folks actually encountering this problem up thread. My net is this:
  • Unlike people who buy an S90D today, we "early" owners bought a Range Upgrade option that cost $3K for effectively 16 more miles at 100% charge. That was Tesla's choice to market their option like that, not mine. Any loss against those miles on the day of delivery is easy to essentially equate to having paid for something one didn't receive. You can draw your own comparative analogies... (e.g. a package of something that says there is 16 inside, but upon opening it, and only 12 are there, what would you expect as a consumer?). I already personally feel there is enough "donation" in the price of an MS to help further the cause, than having given more when I was not expecting to. Tesla not prioritizing resolution (especially if it is firmware) the same way they have with other high profile hardware-only issues, compounds some of our concern. Some other early owners as I said have a much worse problem than I... where those 16 miles are still nearly all absent or they are running with RR lower than that, yet are being told like me that all is well, and there are firmware updates still coming (but no ETA) to resolve their issue.
  • I'm personally careful to keep my expectations on what specs Tesla stated when I ordered and took delivery of my specific MS... but it's anecdotally interesting from many posts here that Tesla implemented what appears to be some sort of update to the S90D battery within a few weeks or months of at least mine and some others being shipped that both allowed final EPA ratings to be higher than what it was when I and other early owners ordered or have ever achieved. I get that Tesla is always making engineering updates, but changes like that, that sort of sneek into the game when improved RR is generally such a big deal promoted to the public and press, while some number of earlier S90D can't quite get to even the original lower number does make one question what's going on.
  • ...and then the question remains for me: Tesla has told and documented to me three things to resolve my concerns that are different from one another. Which am I to believe and implement to protect my investment and maximize enjoyment of my MS? Tesla has elected not to answer that. Again, it's anecdotal, and Inhate to be suspicious, but it makes at least me ask "why no reply?" I appreciate people's constructive ideas here and have read every one in this thread since its inception -- implementing several when Tesla has lacked clarity, but like others I suspect, I believe I deserve a straight single answer from my manufacturer because of the confusion they have created for me, their customer and MS Owner. I also believe there are others that may not be high mileage drivers, and even more out there that don't frequent threads like this, so wouldn't it be helpful to all of them if Tesla provided manual/video/orientation clarity how often manual cycling is necessary or not. Certainly when M3 comes into the game, there will be even more people like me that would benefit from updates to either firmware to handle the low-mileage situation some way, or perhaps notify owners they have to manually intervene with a deeper cycle at some interval.
 
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I think you need to find a way to get over this. I know you feel slighted by Tesla but it's just not worth letting this minor issue ruin your otherwise enjoyment of the car.

Take this in to consideration - you could've been delivered a car that displayed the EPA (or promised or whatever) rated range upon delivery but then degraded quickly in the first year and lost 10 miles in the first year. Or, you could've been delivered a car that was always shy 8 miles of what you expected it to be but only lost 2 miles during the course of the first year. Either way you are in the same position at the end of year 1 and Tesla isn't going to do anything about either case.

It's just not worth letting it interfere with the enjoyment of the car. If you let stuff like this eat at you to the point where you don't want a Tesla anymore what would you get to replace it?

Mike
Thanks ...and I get it. It's why I have been factual and business like with Tesla from the outset -- Never a threat or loud word. I tried my last major step of writing to Tesla asking for help clarifying their varying direction -- to help me; perhaps others given the generally nebulous nature Tesla has with minimal and elusive documentation; and in hope that Tesla would use a formal letter like that as feedback and a reason to improve (as my team and I used to with customer complaints). When a month passed and I had no reply, I got more |>€£~'d off about Tesla's failed Customer Service, but settled in to just live with what has evolved to be lesser problem than it was weeks and months ago.

I will always feel slighted because of the "$3K Option that should have provided 16 miles", but have moved on. I simply wanted to close my part of this thread out as I feel like one of originators some 30+ pages ago beginning last Fall when we first were identifying the problem. Lots of people jump in with opinions which is fine, but I do believe owners encountering the exact problem have a different POV others may not be able to completely understand. I do remain passionate for my fellow early S90D owners that have more severe problems than I -- still hoping Tesla comes through, but loosing hope as time progresses.

I'm outta here with feedback on my last post. Thx again to those that have been helpful along the way.
 
I think you need to find a way to get over this. I know you feel slighted by Tesla but it's just not worth letting this minor issue ruin your otherwise enjoyment of the car.

Take this in to consideration - you could've been delivered a car that displayed the EPA (or promised or whatever) rated range upon delivery but then degraded quickly in the first year and lost 10 miles in the first year. Or, you could've been delivered a car that was always shy 8 miles of what you expected it to be but only lost 2 miles during the course of the first year. Either way you are in the same position at the end of year 1 and Tesla isn't going to do anything about either case.

It's just not worth letting it interfere with the enjoyment of the car. If you let stuff like this eat at you to the point where you don't want a Tesla anymore what would you get to replace it?

Mike

EDIT: I did not mean this post in any way berate or otherwise minimize any concerns you guys have just saying that IMO it is likely Tesla will never do anything about it.
Just thought I would chime in here that the OP is at around 240 and 260 (90% & 100%) or 27 rated miles off of what was promised. He has also sent a letter and not received a response. He may be one of the worst cases but all of us are upset that Tesla didn't keep their word either on the range we would get or the promised fix and to not even respond to customers letters just isn't right. All of us love driving our cars but the lack of communication, transparency, and keeping promises just doesn't feel right.
 
I'm sorry if I'm asking something dumb and obvious, but I'm still new here (just placed my order for MS a week ago). I see a lot of people taking about charging up to 90%. Why not fully to 100%? Is that bad for the battery or something?

Thanks in advance.
 
I'm sorry if I'm asking something dumb and obvious, but I'm still new here (just placed my order for MS a week ago). I see a lot of people taking about charging up to 90%. Why not fully to 100%? Is that bad for the battery or something?

Thanks in advance.
For day to day driving Tesla recommends 70-90%. It doesn't hurt your battery to charge to 100% but it will be better for the battery to do that just when you need to such as a long trip.
 
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@BertL has a reasonable complaint on at least two points:

1) His S90D has substantially less range than he expected when he made his purchase. He got about 10% less than they represented and than he paid for. Let me repeat that "and paid for". In any other product category this problem would be addressed by the vendor. If you buy a case of wine and one of the bottles is "corked", the winery sends you a replacement bottle (at least in my experience with any reputable winery). A $100K is sort of like a $1K case of wine, it's reasonable to expect to receive what you paid for.

My BMW i3 BEV, now two years old, has not lost a mile of range, certainly not 10%, so while Tesla's "don't bother me, suck it up" attitude may have convinced many owners, this is not something that is necessarily inherent in EVs. It is however an excellent example of "if you repeat a falsehood enough times, it starts to sound like the truth".

My S90D delivered in April (pre-refresh) has declined from 294 (EPA rated at time of purchase), to 288. It gets drained to < 20% and charged to 100% about once a month in the normal course of driving. I, and I suspect many other S90D owners, hope that we are not on the same curve as @BertL.

2) Tesla's customer service (not vehicle service) is awful. I dare to say that even Comcast, and cable companies were once the low water mark for service, has better customer service. I had several issues with my car at purchase, ranging from the most amazingly fouled up lease you can imagine, to some product issues with the car. Tesla was beyond inept. There effectively is no customer service organization, they all point fingers at someone else, ask for patience, beg for time, promise to do something, and eventually deliver "half a loaf" if you scream and shout and threaten and cajole. None of the individuals are bad people, or harbor ill intent, they are just laboring under totally inept customer service management.

This lack of customer service will spawn a crisis if the factory is able to produce even half the volume of Model 3's that Tesla is promising to produce. M3 customers will not be as generous as MS/MX customers, many of whom have used these forums to admit and accept that they are paying too much, and being too patient (whether it's loss of range, or broken promises to update software) in order to subsidize Elon's "cause". M3 customers are buying transportation, not donating to a cause. Moreever they think they are doing business with a "premium" company so their expectations are going to be higher than if they were buying a Bolt. I see no indication that Tesla is preparing for the tsunami of demands that will be placed on the customer service organization when they start shipping in volume. They do not have the organizational or information infrastructure to deal with customers, they rely on Elon's charm and the driving experience.

Tesla owes @BertL the courtesy of a reply, if it's just to tell him "too bad".

As he has expressed, he enjoys his car, but Tesla should understand that such generosity by owners is not a bottomless well. The press is poised to pounce, as we've seen with one AP death. When Tesla takes its inept customer service to the masses with the first 50,000 M3 owners, expect to see the press, both motor and press, roast them alive.

@BertL is the tip of the iceberg, not an outlier.
 
Unlike people who buy an S90D today, we "early" owners bought a Range Upgrade option that cost $3K for effectively 16 more miles at 100% charge.

True, and if you look at it as paying $187.50 per mile then you were shorted $375 of product at delivery. (Going by the 90% charge since it doesn't appear as if you did a 100% charge until 40 days later). So yes, I understand that you did not get what you paid for and I understand how that could bother you, and it's unfortunate that Tesla did not provide a satisfactory response.
 
That's good to know, thanks msnow. But I'm wondering how it's better for the battery? Do you have some article you can point me to?

Thanks.
Holding a battery at full charge for extended periods can accelerate the degradation of the electrolyte. In practice we have not really seen that effect with Tesla packs, but if you don't need a full charge you might as well avoid it most of the time. The caveat is that not charging to 100% can cause the pack capacity algorithm to under report actual pack capacity, so repeated partial charges may make the pack appear to have less capacity than it actually has.
 
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I received my S90D September 15th. At first with a 90% charge my range was 258 miles.
Since then my range has slowly crept down to where tonight I hit a new low of 251.
I'd like to know what other 90D owners are getting at 90%.
Is my slow decline normal?

Please chime in.

Regards
Ron
As an experiment, drive the speed limit for a couple of weeks, and see if it goes back up? Slow way down, drive like you have a 4 banger ICE. lol.
 
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This lack of customer service will spawn a crisis if the factory is able to produce even half the volume of Model 3's that Tesla is promising to produce. M3 customers will not be as generous as MS/MX customers, many of whom have used these forums to admit and accept that they are paying too much, and being too patient (whether it's loss of range, or broken promises to update software) in order to subsidize Elon's "cause". M3 customers are buying transportation, not donating to a cause. Moreever they think they are doing business with a "premium" company so their expectations are going to be higher than if they were buying a Bolt. I see no indication that Tesla is preparing for the tsunami of demands that will be placed on the customer service organization when they start shipping in volume. They do not have the organizational or information infrastructure to deal with customers, they rely on Elon's charm and the driving experience.

^ slow clap ^

I could not have said it better. The faithful will quickly become outnumbered by the masses.
 
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True, and if you look at it as paying $187.50 per mile then you were shorted $375 of product at delivery. (Going by the 90% charge since it doesn't appear as if you did a 100% charge until 40 days later). So yes, I understand that you did not get what you paid for and I understand how that could bother you, and it's unfortunate that Tesla did not provide a satisfactory response.
If you look at his logs you will see it was only the last two weeks that he got that higher number. Previous to that he was only getting half of what he paid for and he's doing better than most of us early 90D buyers. For me I was down 12 of the promised 16 miles, the OP has signifucantly less (down 27 miles), and on and on. Obviously I don't expect you to read every post in this thread but there are dozens and dozens of people in this situation. I appreciate the spirit of your last sentence but it's more than "unfortunate" it is wrong and it wasn't that we didn't receive a "satisfactory response" we received no response.
 
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That's good to know, thanks msnow. But I'm wondering how it's better for the battery? Do you have some article you can point me to?

Thanks.
The real issue is that if you charge to 100% and let it sit (don't drive it) the heat from that kind of a charge will put strain on the cells. Most people here will time their "Trip" charge (100%) to coincide with when they leave in order to offset the heat issue. There's some study's in this forum on that topic you can search for.
 
Does the charged range display vary depending on past usage? For instance, the "Distance to Empty" of my 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid is based on an algorithm that includes the past 500 miles fuel usage. That can vary 50 miles.
In "Settings" you can toggle between battery percentage and rated miles (RM). My S90D loses one RM for each 273Wh of power consumed so my belief is that the RM on the display is their best estimate of the kWh available for driving divided by 273Wh.

As @TexasEV points out, it has nothing to past driving.
 
EDIT: I did not mean this post in any way berate or otherwise minimize any concerns you guys have just saying that IMO it is likely Tesla will never do anything about it.
Your intent was clearly positive, no concerns there.

However, my hope, and perhaps the hope of others in these forums, is that by surfacing the issues that are most important to us, and voicing our concerns on a continual basis in a rational, factual and well documented manner, maybe Tesla will do something about them.
 
In "Settings" you can toggle between battery percentage and rated miles (RM). My S90D loses one RM for each 273Wh of power consumed so my belief is that the RM on the display is their best estimate of the kWh available for driving divided by 273Wh.

As @TexasEV points out, it has nothing to past driving.

I suspect that each model, with different propulsion configurations has a different factor for each mile. So my P90DL probably has a factor nearer to 300Wh of power for each RM. I wonder what the procedure is to arrive at the factor? Charge to 100% then drive to 0 and then divide the miles into the kWh used? Of course that does not account for the vampire drain, and the 12V recharge usage by all the 12V sub-systems.

Most recently, I have been a 12V abuser, running the HVAC with fan on higher than normal (due to the summer heat) and also noticing that the automatic ventilation system has been running at times when the car was in the sun on very hot days.
 
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