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90D Range slowly declining

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As I have posted before, my P90DL went all the way down to 220 miles at 90% (Sept 8 Pickup) within 2 months. They have assured me that its simply the software algorithm. It had stayed at this level until the last month or so. After the last few updates it has risen to 226 miles at 90% so the algorithm theory makes sense. I have also drove the car with a lower than rated range (wh/m) from full charge to 5 miles left and it only showed 77kw used where I expected around 85 with 5 buffer or something. I don't know if anyone has pondered if it is simply the car thinks zero is at 13kw left, or that 100% is at 77Kw so the upper or lower limits are just set wrong ? What would happen if I charged to 100%, drove it as close to the rated range wh/m and then when it gets to 5 miles left park it and let the heater bring it down to zero or past zero? If I let it keep going past zero, would it let me? Would I risk damage or anything like that? Has anyone tried it? What should my total KW used be on it? Thoughts?
 
Tested for three 90% charge cycles and I picked up 1.5 more rated miles since updating to 7.1.2.12.126. Anyone else with a 90D or other batteries seeing this?
2nd day and 2nd 90% charge after the latest firmware update and showing 251 rated miles once again this morning. Have been running 249-250 for the last 2 weeks with several days being warmer (and a couple cooler) than the last two days. Inconclusive still from my perspective, but it is enough to peak my interest. I'd say I'd keep my eye on it, but have already been doing that on a daily basis since 11/2/2015. ;)
 
Also got the new update yesterday. Charged to 90% = 226 mi (366 km) typical. Should i be concerned? Mine is a demo P90D registered november 15 now with 3600 miles. Delivered to me early February with 3125 mi. My 90% has always been 226 mi.
 
Also got the new update yesterday. Charged to 90% = 226 mi (366 km) typical. Should i be concerned? Mine is a demo P90D registered november 15 now with 3600 miles. Delivered to me early February with 3125 mi. My 90% has always been 226 mi.

We've all been told by our respective Service Centers *in writing* that the loss is not real battery degradation but instead a software algorithm issue that will be corrected in an upcoming update. Suggest if you are concerned that you bring this up to Tesla to see what they say.
 
Also got the new update yesterday. Charged to 90% = 226 mi (366 km) typical. Should i be concerned? Mine is a demo P90D registered november 15 now with 3600 miles. Delivered to me early February with 3125 mi. My 90% has always been 226 mi.

As msnow suggests, it's hard for others to know what worries you and what constitutes "concern".

Personally, I'd think about it this way... A P90D should have about 268 rated range miles at 100% charge, or 241 at 90%. (253 mi + 6% gives you the 268, * .9 = 241). You are only seeing 226 miles at 90% how Tesla presents rated range to you. So where are the "missing" 15 miles at 90% charge, since you don't have any better way to measure how good your battery is functioning. If that worries you or causes concern, then document your concern to Tesla. IMHO, it's important you do, and allow them to explain the problem and provide a resolution to your satisfaction. As you've read here, Tesla has told some of us this is an algorithm problem requiring a future firmware fix. We hope that fix comes sooner than later, but if not and there is a physical problem of some sort, you really do want to have your concern formally documented to Tesla. Having another owner that takes the time to report their concern about early loss of rated range to Tesla does nothing but help all of us possibly having an earlier resolution. Thank you in advance for your help.
 
The only way you can know for sure is drive until you hit that rated range or the battery dies. But in practicality you can't. But you still want to know that it's there in case you get into unplanned trouble. It could have gone the other way. The car could report the expected rated range even if it was losing capacity and then you wouldn't know until you drove 95% of what it said you would have and it suddenly dies. Or you get low enough that the car now has to start reporting truth or you will die unexpectedly rather than having chance to limp to an RV park or something.
 
The poster who said 76kWh consumption from 100% to 5 miles left - that is as close you can get to estimating the battery capacity accurately than any funky calculations and algorithms.

Adding another generous 2kWh for the remaining 5 miles gives only 78kWh usable capacity, which is only 2kWh more usable capacity from a 85 kWh battery.

Now that should be a cause for concern. Tesla sure seems has a problem in their hands for 90 batteries, and it doesn't seem algorithm related.
 
I did a logger that includes Battery data. Perhaps we should start logging troublesome cars and put the data up on a common drive for sharing? I can put a few more loggers into circulation if needed.


Voltage leveling examples
#41


Animated charge profile
#48



The cell voltage data are useful, but what we really need here are NomFullPackEnergy and EnergyBuffer. @lola - does your logger support these variables?
 
How much does the estimated range calculator take into account the TYPE of driving that's being done? My local Tesla guy David would say "spirited driving" . . . Would that affect the estimated range? It certainly takes the type of driving done in my Volt (which I know isn't MS!)
 
How much does the estimated range calculator take into account the TYPE of driving that's being done? My local Tesla guy David would say "spirited driving" . . . Would that affect the estimated range? It certainly takes the type of driving done in my Volt (which I know isn't MS!)

It's just an EPA rating based on their criteria for driving and average driving conditions. It's not realtime so your personal driving style is not a factor.
 
It's just an EPA rating based on their criteria for driving and average driving conditions. It's not realtime so your personal driving style is not a factor.
Slight error here. There are several range calculations for the S and X:
Rated- replicates the EPA test 5-cycle for US cars. Other countries may vary.
Estimated- Predicates range based on brief historical driving so changes. Driver can change this estimate on screen for Instant, 5 miles, 15 miles or 30 miles.
Ideal- replicates original EPA test 2-cycle, so is more optimistic.

It is usually not difficult to beat rated range in good weather and road conditions. It us even possible to beat ideal range if you're willing to drive very slowly and smoothly in good weather. The real value is estimated, though because it is the only measure that tells the driver how the car is actually performing.
 
Slight error here. There are several range calculations for the S and X:
Rated- replicates the EPA test 5-cycle for US cars. Other countries may vary.
Estimated- Predicates range based on brief historical driving so changes. Driver can change this estimate on screen for Instant, 5 miles, 15 miles or 30 miles.
Ideal- replicates original EPA test 2-cycle, so is more optimistic.

It is usually not difficult to beat rated range in good weather and road conditions. It us even possible to beat ideal range if you're willing to drive very slowly and smoothly in good weather. The real value is estimated, though because it is the only measure that tells the driver how the car is actually performing.

Yes, you're right I missed the "estimated" part of the comment b
 
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So I'm the OP of this thread chiming back in after a long sit out.
I'm pissed!
I thought there would have been a fix already to this problem already.
We paid $3k for an option and received no value or use for it.
To say that it's just an algorithm issue and not a battery issue is misleading.
The only method I can determine how far I can drive before re-charging is the battery range number I see on the screen.
I do not feel warm and cozy to think that I can add theoretical miles to the range indication because of software miscalculations.
I can only go by what the range shows me. Regardless of my actual day to day driving requirements; I paid for 6% more range for $3,000 and did not receive it.

What's worse is that Tesla knows about it yet doesn't acknowledge it freely.
I think everyone of us had to teach our SA's about this issue.
We've endured bullsh!t responses about weather, driving styles and the like; which we all know has nothing to do with the battery rated range.
I never received an email, a call or a letter from Tesla about this problem.
I received my car last September (6 months ago), that should be enough time to fix a so called algorithm.
I think all of us Model 'S' 90 owners should find away to collectively show our displeasure.
I'm not talking about a class action suit, but some how to collectively sign a letter or form or whatever.

Like I said earlier, I'm pissed.
Thoughts?
 
So I'm the OP of this thread chiming back in after a long sit out.
I'm pissed!
I thought there would have been a fix already to this problem already.
We paid $3k for an option and received no value or use for it.
To say that it's just an algorithm issue and not a battery issue is misleading.
The only method I can determine how far I can drive before re-charging is the battery range number I see on the screen.
I do not feel warm and cozy to think that I can add theoretical miles to the range indication because of software miscalculations.
I can only go by what the range shows me. Regardless of my actual day to day driving requirements; I paid for 6% more range for $3,000 and did not receive it.

What's worse is that Tesla knows about it yet doesn't acknowledge it freely.
I think everyone of us had to teach our SA's about this issue.
We've endured bullsh!t responses about weather, driving styles and the like; which we all know has nothing to do with the battery rated range.
I never received an email, a call or a letter from Tesla about this problem.
I received my car last September (6 months ago), that should be enough time to fix a so called algorithm.
I think all of us Model 'S' 90 owners should find away to collectively show our displeasure.
I'm not talking about a class action suit, but some how to collectively sign a letter or form or whatever.

Like I said earlier, I'm pissed.
Thoughts?

Makes sense. Either a refund or a date certain in the near future on the update that fixes this for us. Interested to hear what other 90D owners that have this issue think.

P.S. good to hear from you again.
 
The only method I can determine how far I can drive before re-charging is the battery range number I see on the screen.

You should be re-charging daily so I don't see how this is really an issue.

I've had my car for 2 years, and I do a lot of long distant driving, but I've never gone below about 20 km and that was only one time. And, if you really needed that extra range you paid for, it would still be there. Granted, the range anxiety would be worse -- and I do understand your concerns.

I received my car last September (6 months ago), that should be enough time to fix a so called algorithm.

Maybe Tesla is too busy working on the algorithm for the 100kWh batteries?:

Tesla's response to me leaking info about the P100D?
 
I've had my car for 2 years, and I do a lot of long distant driving, but I've never gone below about 20 km and that was only one time. And, if you really needed that extra range you paid for, it would still be there.

Really? How do you know this? Has anyone run their 90D down to 0 miles yet and reported here? At this point, even if Tesla *fixes* this through a software update, I'd be more than paranoid that it was just a tweak to the software to hide actual degradation.