90D time for fixes or lawsuits

[islandbayy]

I have a S100D... my lifetime is 337wh/mi

New 90kWh pack capacity is actually ~85.8ish with just over 81kWh useable (again when new). The 90's should have been the ones marketed as 85's. So given the useable capacity when new, thats ~275Wh/Mile.

 

[PhaseWhite]

Here is my latest. I have info recorded up to 57,000 miles. I record every ~1000 miles (Im in China right now, and unfortunately, even with my VPN's, YouTube and many USA sites and even my remote desktop to home is running at dial up type speeds, while domestic to china stuff runs at nearly a gigabit....). Mix of L2 and Supercharging. Car is limited to a maximum of 94kW charge rate. As of lately, it seems to be hit or miss weather I get 94kW or stuck around 60kW rates. As I have Tesla Spy, and access to BMS data, I can rule out temperatures (Cold or Hot) causing charging rate issues. I should be able to hit 90+ kW charge rate with cell temps at or above 70*F and below 113*F at any SOC below 60%.

As for useable capacity, let's just say my 90D is now just a hair away from being a 75D.
Watch to End as I include a Chart from every 1000 since car was new (0 miles) to present.

What year 90D and what version battery do you have?

 

[islandbayy]

What year 90D and what version battery do you have?

Jan 2016 Build, non-refresh. Build just before the refresh changeover. Will need to check battery version when I get home from China.

 

[zambono]

Jan 2016 Build, non-refresh. Build just before the refresh changeover. Will need to check battery version when I get home from China.

We need to make some noise. I just sent an email to Fred at Electrek specially since he just put out an article about how great Tesla batteries have been. We’ll sure the 85’s have been great, but the 90’s are another story. We would have been better off with 85’s

 

[croman]

We need to make some noise. I just sent an email to Fred at Electrek specially since he just put out an article about how great Tesla batteries have been. We’ll sure the 85’s have been great, but the 90’s are another story. We would have been better off with 85’s

Fred is a Tesla shill. Don't expect anything but sunshine and rainbows from electrek.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Tesla's advertised range is with RANGE MODE ON. Please keep that in mind when evaluating any potential loss.

 

[PhaseWhite]

This might be a lot to ask but it would be more useful to have some datapoints in this discussion besides just total range at 90% and 100%
I'll go first:

1. Build Date/Mileage: 2/17 / 6K
2. Range at 90/100% (Standard Miles/Range Mode off): 266/294
3. Daily Charge % Target: 80%
4. Supercharger use per year: 2x
5. Battery Version and or Part #: 1088790-00-A

 

[Utahken]

1. Build Date/Mileage: 9/2017 / 10.5K
2. Range at 90/100% (Standard Miles/Range Mode off): 265/292
3. Daily Charge % Target: 70%
4. Supercharger use per year: about 5 times
5. Battery Version and or Part #: 1088790-00-A

Just tested on Wednesday when I saw this thread. Day 1 100% charge = 291 miles.

 

[sorka]

I have a 90D less than 20k miles and it has lost at least 10% of rated miles, and I am currently supercharging at 62kW. Tesla is capping the charging because of the poor performance of their 90 batteries and it’s unnaceptable. I am going to have to supercharge close to 2 hours each leg of a trip.

But even if you hit the counters, they don't cap charging to 62KW. They WILL cap it to about 64KW if you have you have a stuck closed cooling louver. Are both louvers opening when you supercharge?

 

[sorka]

I don't know that there is an "expected" number. But no Tesla won't do anything about your degradation as the warranty specifically excludes "gradual degradation."

On the Model 3 degradation is covered. The warranty covers 70% energy retention. So on the long range Model 3 they would replace the battery when the 100% charge drops from 310 miles down to 216 miles during the covered warranty period.

I know that's true in California due to CARBs requirements but is that true for the entire US?

 

[sorka]

The problem with the M3 warranty is that nobody can determine when you get to 70% except Tesla. Want to base it off of your Rated Miles at full charge? Well, guess who is in control of THAT calculation...

The CANBUS reports available kWH through the BMS.

 

[ahkahn]

1. Build Date/Mileage: 3/17 / 28K
2. Range at 90/100% (Standard Miles/Range Mode off): 258/288
3. Daily Charge % Target: 90%
4. Supercharger use per year: 30x
5. Battery Version and or Part #: 1088790-00-A

For the record, for those who have said that the range cannot come back up, according to TeslaFi (which I've used since my car was new), 90% has been bouncing up and down by a few miles within a week of each other. It's dipped and then come back up.

 

[ahkahn]

As a sidenote, I am sure that the fine fellows over at TeslaFi could compile all of the 90D current and historical data to show where 90% and 100% charges are related to total mileage. They've got a handsome dataset, I'm sure.

 

[Utahken]

As a sidenote, I am sure that the fine fellows over at TeslaFi could compile all of the 90D current and historical data to show where 90% and 100% charges are related to total mileage. They've got a handsome dataset, I'm sure.

I'm on teslafi too. It will be interesting to see what version battery @islandbayy has when he gets back.

 

[croman]

1. Build Date/Mileage: 3/17 / 28K
2. Range at 90/100% (Standard Miles/Range Mode off): 258/288
3. Daily Charge % Target: 90%
4. Supercharger use per year: 30x
5. Battery Version and or Part #: 1088790-00-A

For the record, for those who have said that the range cannot come back up, according to TeslaFi (which I've used since my car was new), 90% has been bouncing up and down by a few miles within a week of each other. It's dipped and then come back up.

As I've explained, ambient temperature affects the capacity of cells and will affect your rated miles because colder temps reduce charge capacity reported by the BMS which is how rated miles is derived.

 

[brkaus]

As I've explained, ambient temperature affects the capacity of cells and will affect your rated miles because colder temps reduce charge capacity reported by the BMS which is how rated miles is derived.

Can also bounce a bit after deeper discharge/charge cycle. I typically charge to 80% and only run down to 65%. I find it comes back up after a road trip.

 

[croman]

Can also bounce a bit after deeper discharge/charge cycle. I typically charge to 80% and only run down to 65%. I find it comes back up after a road trip.

That could be cell balancing.

 

[Ken395]

1. Build Date/Mileage: 8/16 / 27K
2. Range at 90/100% (Rated Range miles/Range Mode off): 252/281
3. Daily Charge % Target: 70-80%
4. Supercharger use per year: 45x
5. Battery Version and or Part #: 1088790-00-A

First 12 months daily charge 80%, 70% since then. Visited 35 Superchargers, repeat visits at 20 of them.

I live in the Mojave Desert which explains the high number of Supercharger visits. The car is garaged in an air conditioned garage. A higher ambient temperature while on the road may account for the higher loss of Rated Range than cars in northern climates.

 

[FlatSix911]

We need to make some noise. I just sent an email to Fred at Electrek specially since he just put out an article about how great Tesla batteries have been. We’ll sure the 85’s have been great, but the 90’s are another story. We would have been better off with 85’s

Interesting reading ... Tesla battery degradation at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles, according to latest data
Battery degradation is one of the biggest concerns for electric car owners and potential buyers, but data from Tesla battery packs have been very reassuring so far. Now the latest data shows less than 10% degradation of the energy capacity after over 160,000 miles on Tesla’s battery packs.

We have previously reported on the data, but they have since added many more vehicles and those vehicles have been driving a lot more – completing more battery cycles. The data clearly shows that for the first 50,000 miles (100,000 km), most Tesla battery packs will lose about 5% of their capacity, but after the 50,000-mile mark, the capacity levels off and it looks like it could be difficult to make a pack degrade by another 5%. The trend line currently suggests that the average battery pack could cycle through over 300,000 km (186,000) before coming close to 90% capacity. Here are the relevant charts from the data gathering effort (full chart on the left and zoomed to 80% on the right):
.

 

[PhaseWhite]

A higher ambient temperature while on the road may account for the higher loss of Rated Range than cars in northern climates.

I'd bet it has more to do with the high supercharger use.