TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

90D vs 75D

Discussion in 'Model X' started by dropd, Apr 12, 2016.

Tags:
  1. dropd

    dropd Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    PA
    Aha! Did your DS get this done for you or the main group at Tesla? Do you mind sharing your VIN so I can use you as evidence that Tesla is doing this for at least someone else in the same boat as me?
     
  2. proven

    proven Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    296
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    The flaw in your numbers is that you don't have access to 100% of the battery--and the rated range is calculated based on the available battery, not the total 90kWh. Lots and lots of discussion about this over the years in regards to the Model S. The rated wh/mi line is at about 340 on the P90D and pvogel confirmed my suspicion with his post.

    That's a good comparison! I'll keep track of our Wh/mi and see if it keeps coming down (it was in the 370's for the first 400 miles or so). If the P90D range is 250 and the rated Wh/mi is 340, that would mean 85kWh of the battery is available which is reasonable. If the 90D range is 257 and it has 85kWh available the rated range would be about 331 Wh/mi.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. loganintx

    loganintx Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    607
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I have wondered this and asked this question before. Certainly the EPA rated range can't be based on 100% to 0% SOC. Driving to 0% is not practical.
     
  4. proven

    proven Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    296
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Another thing about that is the displayed percentage reflects the available battery, not the total battery. So you can drive it down to 0%, but that's not 0% of the actual battery since they reserve some so you don't damage it. The car will shut down before you drain it completely.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. loganintx

    loganintx Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    607
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Yes, with these batteries it's not like they are FULL of water and then you use ALL the water and then fill them back up with water. It's a Voltage range that is safe. Roughly 4.2V/cell for fully charged and about 3.4V when discharged. (these are the numbers for my drone's batteries but I know the Tesla battery cells are simliar).
    100% may represent an average voltage across all cells of 4.2V and 0% might represent 3.42V with a small amount of voltage to spare before safety cutoffs engage to prevent cell damage.
     
  6. dropd

    dropd Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    PA
    An update to the original topic in this thread: I was able to get Tesla to downgrade my confirmed order from 90D to 75D but was unable to get them to waive the $500 change fee. My 90D was supposedly scheduled for production the week of 4/24 and now I'm bumped to the back of the queue for obvious reasons, but I'm ok with it as I'm realizing a $9500 savings in exchange for 20 miles of EPA range.

    My DS was unable to confirm whether my decor would remain matte obeche which was standard at the time of the original order, or if it would now switch to dark ash - but if I had to guess I'd guess it will switch.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  7. halg

    halg Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Georgia
    Right. That's why we switched from model s 70D to model X 75D
     
  8. wallstguy

    wallstguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    544
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    That makes no sense

    [​IMG]

    "
    Week 1: We will submit your order to the Tesla Factory for production one week after the Order Date. During this one week period, you may cancel your order or make any changes to your Vehicle Configuration without incurring any costs.
    "
    https://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/order/download-order-agreement?country=CA

    Unless Canadian terms are different from those of the US?

    You should be able to completely cancel your car in the first week if you wanted without any penalty.
     
  9. Stasla

    Stasla Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    New York
    Absolutely correct. In my case I pressed the Order button on April 2, so that 1st week was up on April 9
    X75D showed up in design studio on April 12.

    In the order agreement the language is: after 1 week, you can request a change and IF they accept there will be a $500 fee. (Paraphrasing)

    So technically Tesla didn't violate any part of the agreement, they were initially reluctant to make the change which I think was not a great customer experience.

    I still think they should waive the $500 fee, since it's not a frivolous "oops customer changed their mind" type of change where the options and pricing are the same. I have a hard time believing that it's too late to change it 55 hours after order confirmed. They just couldn't have started building it that soon, though I may be wrong, given the recent production ramp.

     
  10. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,792
    Location:
    North Bay, CA
    Just to be clear - I realize that for you, the only benefit of the 90D over the 75D is the EPA range. However, the more complete list includes:
    • 0-60 time 1.2 seconds quicker
    • Air suspension with towing capability
    • 20 addition miles EPA range
    • Top speed 155mph vs 130mph

    Obviously value varies by individual. For instance, I value the top speed difference right around 0. But I value the acceleration pretty highly, as I do the range and the air ride. I just don't want it to be unclear to future readers of this thread.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Stasla

    Stasla Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    New York
    Excellent point!

    Let's also not forget that bigger batteries have slightly better supercharging times.

    Having said that, it's really down to what your primary use is for the car: "stupid fast play thing" that seats up to 7 vs. every day family car of the future. I fall into the latter category so for me there's $0 value in better acceleration, higher top speed, or towing (not a boat/horse owner) range is important, but not at that price for the additional 20 miles...

     
  12. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,792
    Location:
    North Bay, CA
    Tesla's been inconsistent with their accessory hitch deliveries (some getting 1.25" with max weight of 250, some 2", some getting 2" with 3500 lb towing capacity), but buyers have to assume that they'll get the accessory hitch with a max capacity of 250 lbs. Given that, it means that you're not only eliminating trailers, you're eliminating or at least severely limiting cargo trays/cargo boxes that are hitch-mounted since most of those have a 300-500lb capacity. Given that roof racks are impossible (or very inconvenient/scary with Seasuckers), towing horses or boats is certainly not the only benefit of the towing package.

    basket1-031.jpg B00152VYLQ.01.lg.jpg
     
    • Informative x 2
  13. dropd

    dropd Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    PA
    That's not exactly what I said. In fact, my $9,500 savings does NOT include removal of the Air Suspension option that enables towing. If I had removed that, My savings would have been $12,000. You can opt with the 75D to pay an extra $2,500 for the air suspension and that's in fact what I've done.

    It's true that I think the 0-60 time even with the 75D is plenty peppy, I'll give you that.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. grommet

    grommet Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    The limited weight 1.25" hitch never made it to production. If there is a hitch receiver, it's 2"...
     
    • Like x 1
  15. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,792
    Location:
    North Bay, CA
    Yeah, I see now that they changed the Design Studio to reflect it as well. Sorry about that. Last time I'd checked, people were still being told they'd receive a 1.25".
     
  16. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    New York
    #96 ggnykk, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
    Go with the 90D, you won't regret it. If you do a lot of long road trip (using superchargers), or you don't have charging at home or at work (again, rely on superchargers), it makes a huge difference. Like other have already said, you add more range in shorter time with the 90D battery at superchargers. Also, you will be using less extreme value of the battery which give you bigger margin of safety and your battery will last longer. If you go with 75D, you will be constantly charge above 90% and empty it to below 5% all the time just to get anywhere, again, especially long road trip. You definitely will have more "range anxiety" with 75D because there will be more occasion where your battery is running below 10%. Another factor is that if you supercharge your car and then you go for lunch at the same time, you can drive longer without charging again. It helps a lot in terms of the "charge time vs drive time" ratio.

    Also, don't be fooled by any of those EPA range claim. Real world range is about 80% of EPA at best. You will have a much better Tesla experience by going with 90D.

    When you are spending almost 90k for a car, don't try to "save money" by not spending the extra 13k to get a better experience. You want a car with almost no limitation with this kind of money. By going with 90D, you definitely will worry a lot less about driving speed, temperature inside the car, range, margin of safety with battery, where you can go, and most importantly, your wife and kids won't be screaming at you "we are charging again!?"
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,801
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    @ohmman convinced me to upgrade to the 90D, Tesla should give him some credit.

    I also upgraded so I can get my sunshade sooner.
     
    • Funny x 3
  18. dropd

    dropd Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    PA
    I'm pretty comfortable with the decision to downgrade. It's a rare day when this X will go more than 50 miles in a day, even rarer when it would go beyond 100. We anticipate doing no more than 2-3 road trips a year that would require supercharging and are willing to linger a bit longer to top up on those rare occasions (we are talking minutes here people, not hours). Also, I don't live and don't WANT to live in a world where >10k dollars is insignificant- it's a trap to think "well that's only an extra 10% of the price of the car". Well, that's $10k that could go to charity and do a lot of good, or to a college fund, or to a great family vacation, etc. it's also roughly a third of the way to a model 3.

    Remember at the end of the day this is 20 miles extra of rated range. By your own argument rated range is overstated so we are talking about a number even smaller than that 20 miles. It's just not going to impact how we plan to use the car.

     
    • Like x 5
  19. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    New York
    Wrong math for sure.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  20. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,066
    Location:
    Sonoma, California
    This argument as to weather to do a 90 or a 75 is very much up to your individual needs. They both have there positives and negatives, for me since owning a 60 for close to 3 years and having many more superchargers than 3 years ago I do not need more mileage or 0 to 60 speed. I do not commute and have never had a situation where I could not get somewhere. So having a 60 model s that I charge to 180 and getting a 75 that will charge at 90 percent to 213 I'm happy. Maybe not good for everyone and their individual situation, but works for me.
     
    • Like x 5

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC