90D vs 75D

[dropd]

Wrong math for sure.

I'm confused about why it's hard to puzzle out that not everyone drives that far that often.

Not sure what you mean by "wrong math". Take 20% off the top of each of the EPA ratings per your earlier claim and subtract. Obviously battery physics are more complex than this but given there are only a few non-P90D Xs in the wild today and zero P75Ds it's all just informed speculation based on various Model S configs.

 

[proven]

The main reason I wanted the biggest battery was due to one trip that we make where the 70/75 would be way too close for comfort. Superchargers aren't everywhere yet! Hopefully by the time our battery has degraded a bit there's better charging options on the way.

 

[ikjadoon]

I did some research and the battery weight saving of downsizing from P90 to P75 is around 200lbs
That is 3% of the GVWR (6768lbs).

I'm going crazy here. How is this possible?!

75kW - 237 miles (3.16 miles range per kW)
90kW - 257 miles (2.86 miles range per kW)

The capacity increased by 17%, the weight increased by 3%, but the range per kW decreased by 9%? Is weight seriously that debilitating to range? I'm no physics expert, but in every equation I can muster with power, work, force, energy, etc: mass is always linear.

What is going on here?

 

[shokunin]

the 90kw packs deliver more current to the motors increasing kW/mile. The EPA driving has a range of driving styles for acceleration and cruising. Those extra bursts of acceleration are going to consume more energy.

BTW, the Model S with 7 seats has 4 cupholders.

 

[shokunin]

Just to be clear - I realize that for you, the only benefit of the 90D over the 75D is the EPA range. However, the more complete list includes:

• 0-60 time 1.2 seconds quicker
• Air suspension with towing capability
• 20 addition miles EPA range
• Top speed 155mph vs 130mph

Obviously value varies by individual. For instance, I value the top speed difference right around 0. But I value the acceleration pretty highly, as I do the range and the air ride. I just don't want it to be unclear to future readers of this thread.

The Air suspension with towing capability is not exclusive to the 90. There's no reason why the 75 can't also tow with the air suspension.

 

[Merrill]

They would not offer the tow package on a 75 with air if it could not tow.

 

[ikjadoon]

the 90kw packs deliver more current to the motors increasing kW/mile. The EPA driving has a range of driving styles for acceleration and cruising. Those extra bursts of acceleration are going to consume more energy.

BTW, the Model S with 7 seats has 4 cupholders.

Ohhh, really? OK. Is that confirmed anywhere? Or can we just tell from the lower 0-60 times?

Oh, wait, really? I didn't know the 7-seater had more cup-holders standard...Thank you--let me edit it.

 

[Eresan]

My final configuration date was April 12th, same day the 75d was updated. I originally picked 90D the first day I placed order, changed to 75D on the 7th day 2hours before the 7 days ends.

It still shows a $80000 price in my configuration, so its a $3000 gain, it made a total $13000 cheaper than 90d. I also removed the subzero weather package and downgraded to 6 seats from 7. Made it a total of $15000 saving compare my original 90d order. For my 75d, I manually selected air suspension and tow package for towing my airstream to a campground which is less than 120 miles. I can charge the battery at the camp ground for return trip. I will put this $15000 towards the model 3 for my wife. I am sure my will like my model x after showed her. She told me she like her toyata venza

1.2 seconds faster is not that important to me. 75d has 6 seconds is seriesly good enough. the car i am trading is a corvette c6. i have never stepped the paddle all the way to bottom for the max accelaration, at most was like 70% for a few second before exceed speed limit.

 

[ohmman]

In fact, my $9,500 savings does NOT include removal of the Air Suspension option that enables towing. If I had removed that, My savings would have been $12,000.

The Air suspension with towing capability is not exclusive to the 90. There's no reason why the 75 can't also tow with the air suspension.

They would not offer the tow package on a 75 with air if it could not tow.

Yes, my response above was a mistake. I had gone to the design studio and selected 75D (default), gone to 90D, then back to 75D. It keeps the air suspension activated, so the difference looked like $10k. I assumed that @dropd was comparing a $9500 difference (10k - 500 change fee) and not including the air. I apologize, obviously didn't mean to add to the confusion. I'm aware that the 75D can tow and be equipped with a hitch capable of holding a heavy rack or box. I wasn't addressing that - I was trying to address the price difference, but again, I was wrong. Apologies, it wasn't intentional. I was merely trying to clear up differences between the trim levels for other readers.

 

[shokunin]

Ohhh, really? OK. Is that confirmed anywhere? Or can we just tell from the lower 0-60 times?

Oh, wait, really? I didn't know the 7-seater had more cup-holders standard...Thank you--let me edit it.

It's similar to the Model S 70 vs 90 range numbers. The 90's deliver more horsepower even though they use the same motors. The 90 pack is able to deliver more current for better performance at the expense of range. Same thing when you move up to Performance, the range drops even more due to the horsepower.

The rear facing jump seats in the model S has two kids cupholders in the middle. That's why there's 4 cupholders if you have the 7 seat config.

 

[ikjadoon]

It's similar to the Model S 70 vs 90 range numbers. The 90's deliver more horsepower even though they use the same motors. The 90 pack is able to deliver more current for better performance at the expense of range. Same thing when you move up to Performance, the range drops even more due to the horsepower.

The rear facing jump seats in the model S has two kids cupholders in the middle. That's why there's 4 cupholders if you have the 7 seat config.

OK, same motors, but delivers more current. Right, right, right--it all makes sense now. Wow, thank you. I had heard they were the same motors, so that's what really confused me: how...? But, it's the current output by the battery that's different!

Ohhh, got it. Thank you. Edited.

 

[BrianD]

It used to be hidden as an Easter egg on the configuration, for some bizarre reason. You had to type the word "charger" anywhere on the page, and it would appear.

This is a follow-up to my earlier question regarding 72 amp charger availability on 75D. I spoke with DS to request it be added without an additional change fee. My points were:
1. This was a hidden option at time of configuration and it is unreasonable to expect the average consumer to be aware of an easter egg. Had I seen it I would have selected it at that time.
2. I already paid one $500 change fee (within the past week) to switch from 7-->6 seater and black leather --> ultra white mostly due to Elon's prodding - although I confirmed in-person they were the right changes for me. I again went through options on the phone and the 72 amp was not mentioned.

He was not optimistic initially but called a couple hours later to say he was able to make the change without repricing my entire vehicle (had free $3k upgrade from 70 --> 75) or paying another $500 change fee. He described it as a unique set of circumstances that allowed it to be waived. I understand they do not waive this fee often so was quite pleased they did the right thing.

I later signed in to see the updated config and was pleasantly surprised to see he gave it to me at the initial $1,000 price and not the new $1,500. I did not even ask for this as I thought it would be pushing my luck so it was very unexpected. I used the difference for a the new version of the wall connector anyway.

I thought I would share my experience in case anyone else was in a similar situation. Hopefully they don't read this and fix their mistake

 

[SMSMD]

I later signed in to see the updated config and was pleasantly surprised to see he gave it to me at the initial $1,000 price and not the new $1,500. I did not even ask for this as I thought it would be pushing my luck so it was very unexpected. I used the difference for a the new version of the wall connector anyway.I thought I would share my experience in case anyone else was in a similar situation. Hopefully they don't read this and fix their mistake

Nice one more hidden Easter egg..Bonus after Bonus

 

[ohmman]

He was not optimistic initially but called a couple hours later to say he was able to make the change

For the record, I think you made a very good decision.

 

[jomo25]

Hmm, but with this new rumored feature where the car can 'simulate' any lower version of the car, could a X90 have a higher range then if the 'X75' simulator was on? I.e. Lesser current being delivered thus a slower 0-60 time etc, resulting in fewer Wh/mi and re range?

 

[EV Family]

Hmm, but with this new rumored feature where the car can 'simulate' any lower version of the car, could a X90 have a higher range then if the 'X75' simulator was on? I.e. Lesser current being delivered thus a slower 0-60 time etc, resulting in fewer Wh/mi and re range?

@jomo25 Where did you here this rumor of being able to simulate any variant? I know at test drives they could do this but didn't know that cars are being delivered with this option of potentially using less current?

 

[BrianD]

Hmm, but with this new rumored feature where the car can 'simulate' any lower version of the car, could a X90 have a higher range then if the 'X75' simulator was on? I.e. Lesser current being delivered thus a slower 0-60 time etc, resulting in fewer Wh/mi and re range?

It looks like at least one person that tested it did not see a difference - although there could be others out there with a different experience:
Tesla 'Performance Mode' Easter Egg Lets You Toggle Between Vehicles

 

[shokunin]

Range mode seems to make a difference on the "D" models. Does nothing on my classic RWD cars other than limit the HVAC.

Bjorn and Morgan made a video on a p85d that reduced Wh/mi by 7% with range mode on.

 

[MrBoylan]

If I may add, do people really target hitting that top speed. I don't know .. I have had cars which claim they do similar speeds. However I did not have the cojones to cross 105 ever. That too was done on a dead straight road in a desert.

Hell I did that on my Model X test drive. The Tesla guy in the passenger seat (a forum member here) did remind me that I was responsible for any tickets. And by "that" I mean the speed listed above, not the top speed. Driving 155 (or even 130) on a test drive would be rude.

 

[MrBoylan]

My change fee was waived when I upgraded to a 90D this past Saturday (also changed to solid black paint instead of silver, added tow package). I don't think Tesla is consistent in this policy, just depends on who you talk with.

And I was able to get a full refund on a cancellation of a confirmed order, so I agree. It depends on who you are working with and on the specifics of the request. I had an awesome DS (albeit briefly) and kind of extenuating circumstances (and no VIN assigned) but still... it was appreciated. I actually cancelled nearly two months after confirming the order and had the check in hand about a week later.