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KArnold
Active Member
KArnold
Active Member
Sure. I'm not sure if the OP's "vintage" car was in the ABRP list or not. But if not he could choose a different MS and then customize the WH/M consumption to his car's and get very close functionality.
Consumption is a different problem. You can change the max charging speed under the gear icon for each charging stop. If you want to see the effect of slower supercharging, enter a lower number for charging kW and see the difference in charging time. It may already assume 90kW peak for a S 85D.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I thought the throttling was based on the amount of time spent Supercharging in the past. A certain threshold gets passed and then the car will no longer charge at full speed again. This has been seen on both the X's and the S's, but not yet documented on the 3's and Y's, perhaps they behave the same, but it may not be needed on the newer architecture.
Yes.. my car is a 2015 Model S85D.. I rarely need to supercharge these days, mostly b/c of Covid-19, but I was surprised to find my battery pulling less than 72 kW at a SCer capable of at least 130 kW with only 41 rated miles when I plugged in.
all i'm saying is that if I was expecting to get 200 rated miles during a 20 minute pit stop on my way to another SCer, I would have been very disappointed.
I was roughly 35 miles from home and could have made it without stopping at the SCer.. but I need to pee, so I thought I would kill 2 birds with one stone.
I still wonder if ABRP would tell me I only need to stay at a SC 20 minutes, like when my car was new, or longer -- as now tesla is obviously throttling charging sessions for older cars. 1
all i'm saying is that if I was expecting to get 200 rated miles during a 20 minute pit stop on my way to another SCer, I would have been very disappointed.
I was roughly 35 miles from home and could have made it without stopping at the SCer.. but I need to pee, so I thought I would kill 2 birds with one stone.
I still wonder if ABRP would tell me I only need to stay at a SC 20 minutes, like when my car was new, or longer -- as now tesla is obviously throttling charging sessions for older cars. 1
MikeBur
ManualPilot
Since throttling is still very common on the older cars, even the Tesla in car estimator for how long is inaccurate, presumably because the taper curve at charger is different based on per car VS estimation when arriving... as the car charges you’ll see that a minute in car time really is much longer than clock time as you look at the car charge remaining time now.
Net: it could be feasible to estimate the different shape of the taper curve now if you track this well, eg TeslaFi or other solution, though I would imagine majority wouldn’t - so a very limited feature - although maybe abrt author could add new estimates profile for chargegate versions eg 85 and 85 (chargegate)
RTPEV
Active Member
Is the 72kW limit a frequent occurrence for you, or just this one instance? (I ask, because you said you were surprised)
The reason I ask is that 72kW is a common "threshold" for Superchargers that are down a charging unit or two (or four!) Any time you see a charge rate evenly divisible by 18kW, you should be suspicious that either the Supercharger has a charging unit that has dropped out, or you are paired with another car and are not getting the full charging rate of your charger (at V2 or earlier Superchargers).
Here is a TeslaFi plot that illustrates this almost perfectly:
It's not clear from the plot, but I arrived with a low state of charge, charge rate starts ramping up...I decide that all is well and go in to use the restroom and grab a snack. In a 2-3 minute period, however, the charge rate immediately drops to almost exactly 72kW and plateaus. I was not sharing the charger with another vehicle.
I moved to a different stall and voila, here is what I saw:
Definitely a more typical taper down, starting at 116kW in this case and ending at about 76kW.
This led me to check a few other plots of cases where it appears my charge rate had been limited and led me to conclude that the charging units inside the V2 Superchargers are each 18kW, with a total of 8 units inside, and that when the charge rate appears to be "stuck" at an even multiple of 18kW that it's likely the Supercharger, and not the car that's the problem.
On this day, the outside temp was 98F, and I suspect that maybe the Supercharger cabinet had overheated causing a few of the charging units to shut off.
Granted, your car itself may still ultimately be limiting the charge rate, but since you said you were surprised, I just wonder if there is a possibility that it was the Supercharger, and not your car.
72kW is typical of a charging stall issue, indeed.
A throttled 85D maxes out at 90kW, always and every time.
Ciaopec
Active Member
Hmmm. Just drove an 85D loaner and it was throttled at 47kW. My 2016 90D will no longer charge above about 93kW (down from the original 120).
Does anyone know if ABRP takes into account SCer throttled "vintage" Model S 85Ds?
I stopped by SC yesterday with 41 miles of RR and only got a max of 67 kW. I only needed like 5-6 miles of margin to get home. and I had to pee, so it wasn't all for nothing, but I worry about my next 2000 mile road trip. if my proposed 20 minute stop will actually be 35 minutes, it will destroy my trip.
Yes. When specifying your vehicle, it also allows you to indicate if Supercharging has been throttled:
If you try each option, you can see that it takes the throttling into account and Supercharging times are adjusted accordingly.
For example, I just calculated a typical ~500 mile road trip that I take every year and it calculated charging time taking 55 minutes and Limited Supercharging Speed taking 58 minutes, so only 3 minutes longer. If I run the numbers with a much lower initial SoC (requiring more Supercharging along the way), Normal would take 1 hour and 33 minutes and Limited Supercharging Speed would take 1 hour and 51 minutes, 18 minutes longer.
robertvg
Extremely Well-Known Member
Besides throttling...I know of one V2 SuC location in NL where you won't get more than 72kW...because Tesla installed by accident a cabinet that is normally used for urbane superchargers...that spread the available 145kW evenly over the two stalls
There is a option during the program's setup when you are entering your car's specs for reduced charging aka throttling.Does anyone know if ABRP takes into account SCer throttled "vintage" Model S 85Ds?
I stopped by SC yesterday with 41 miles of RR and only got a max of 67 kW. I only needed like 5-6 miles of margin to get home. and I had to pee, so it wasn't all for nothing, but I worry about my next 2000 mile road trip. if my proposed 20 minute stop will actually be 35 minutes, it will destroy my trip.
This sounded great.
Oddly, in the App, on my phone, this is not proposed.
I switched to Safari, and it worked. Kinda:
I planned a long trip, took note of the estimation in the “limited” mode.
Then switched car to the non limited.
Ran the simulator again and came only 3 minutes faster. This for a 500 miles trip.
I wanted to switch again to the limited car but now that option does not show up anymore?
Hmm. I just tried the app on Android and every time I changed the vehicle, it would prompt me to select Limited or Normal Supercharging.
Trying to plan a trip in a month and the weather will be extremely cold. When I change the temperature from the default 68F to predicted 34F the energy required changes dramatically. is ABRP taking into account anything used for heating the cabin or is that just the energy the battery will be using? I don't use anything but the seat heater and I'm fine in freezing temps but if this is just energy to get the car moving im in trouble. Also, this is a 600 mile trip with multiple stops is ABRP taking into account the battery will be warm from super charging at these stops and wont need additional heat or how does that work?
Yes, both www.evtripplanner.com and www.abetterrouteplanner.com are figuring in the interior cabin heating. That is why they have variables you can set for both the outside and inside temperatures, so it can plan how much heating you want for your comfort to calculate that into the energy usage. So even with the same outside temperature, you can test scenarios of how your energy usage looks if you want it 66 degrees in the car or 74 degrees.
I haven't really heard anything either way on whether they account for that.
I've done plenty of traveling in freezing temperatures, and your pre-planned playbook kind of goes out the window a bit anyway. Sure, you get a general idea of if a route is possible or not, but if you're traveling mainly on interstates with Supercharger coverage, it's fine. And when you're on the trip, you'll be adjusting on the fly of how much charge you need at each stop based on however it's been going and how much margin you want. Temperatures will be different on travel day, wind will be unknown until travel day, etc.
RTPEV
Active Member
This is going to be the case in even favorable weather. Consumption is going to vary from the plan. Just keep running the trip planner, letting in monitor your consumption and it will revise your plan as appropriate while en route.
Well, I sure don't let the "Beta Trip Planner" tell me a plan either, since it gives horrible recommendations a lot of the time. I just zoom out a little and navigate to the next Supercharger along the route that is a reasonable distance away.
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