Just checked, yes single charger and the drive unit exists.
Aren't you intending to transfer the electronics from the P85 over to that very same shell?
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Just checked, yes single charger and the drive unit exists.
Aren't you intending to transfer the electronics from the P85 over to that very same shell?
pedriscoll
Active Member
As one who has followed BTR's and this thread with great interest I think it is great that both are now going down the same path. I wish you both the best of luck and sincerely hope you both get your repaired Tesla's running and on the road. Keep posting and pass the popcorn!!
zhur0002
Member
Satoshi, I'm not sure that I'm following your logic:
"Tesla doesn't care if you die in a Toyota car crash." Then this further proves that Tesla already compromises on safety.
What does Toyota have to do with Tesla?
I do know that tesla cares about pedestrians. Hood hinges are reinforced by a very fragile rivet that will break and allow hood to move to make injury less severe. Additionaly, they made cars equipped with accident avoidance, car will slow itself down if it thinks it will crash. This will make an accident less severe so there will be less chance of an injury to both parties in event of an accident. (Even if a tesla is involved in a crash with Toyota)
Let me clarify what I meant by your A-pillar. The area where your front door mounts, that looks all bent and damaged.
What I'm saying is when the entire side of the car bends in it will make distance between the roof and floor smaller. In other words bending the B-pillar will make it shorter. Since it is riveted and glued both to the roof and the rocker it will pull down on the roof and pull up on the floor and the rocker. Pulling up on the rocker compromises its position to properly brace the battery in case of the impact. I'm sure it moved a very small amount, but I can guarantee that it moved.
I agree with you 100% that your battery from the underside is just as sound as a bat in a non accident car for puncture resistance. From a side impact its a different story. If rocker is not in the right position and is weakened by a damaged b-pillar battery case will take more impact increasing the chance for it to crack and short out the modules.
I'm sure it is way over engineered like most of the model S and you are not planning on crashing the car, so it should be just fine!
"Tesla doesn't care if you die in a Toyota car crash." Then this further proves that Tesla already compromises on safety.
What does Toyota have to do with Tesla?
I do know that tesla cares about pedestrians. Hood hinges are reinforced by a very fragile rivet that will break and allow hood to move to make injury less severe. Additionaly, they made cars equipped with accident avoidance, car will slow itself down if it thinks it will crash. This will make an accident less severe so there will be less chance of an injury to both parties in event of an accident. (Even if a tesla is involved in a crash with Toyota)
Let me clarify what I meant by your A-pillar. The area where your front door mounts, that looks all bent and damaged.
What I'm saying is when the entire side of the car bends in it will make distance between the roof and floor smaller. In other words bending the B-pillar will make it shorter. Since it is riveted and glued both to the roof and the rocker it will pull down on the roof and pull up on the floor and the rocker. Pulling up on the rocker compromises its position to properly brace the battery in case of the impact. I'm sure it moved a very small amount, but I can guarantee that it moved.
I agree with you 100% that your battery from the underside is just as sound as a bat in a non accident car for puncture resistance. From a side impact its a different story. If rocker is not in the right position and is weakened by a damaged b-pillar battery case will take more impact increasing the chance for it to crack and short out the modules.
I'm sure it is way over engineered like most of the model S and you are not planning on crashing the car, so it should be just fine!
eye.surgeon
Active Member
I suspect you're about to learn more about finance than engineering.
What does the media have to do with me?
I'm fully aware that I will be paying a lot on interest. I told the banker flat out, "You're going to be making a killing off of me financing this, and I'm fully prepared to be paying well past the life of the car when it's running".
It's a skill development opportunity that I think is worth the opportunity cost, interest, and them some.
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CuriousG
Active Member
As soon as this thread started, I was waiting for the first person call him out on the hypocrisy. Pass the popcorn.
The fact that you ask this question proves that you're in over your head and that success in this is going to be a huge challenge. As it's been pointed out before...no, Tesla doesn't really care *that much* if you were to kill yourself driving a Toyota, motorcycle, or fisher price big wheels. That doesn't impact their business. Their business could be very significantly impacted if someone dies in a poorly repaired Tesla, as that minor detail is never going to make it in the headlines. Tesla knows that FUD is their number one threat.
OK, I'll play along (despite your curious conversation expectation), here's my answer:
As a corporation I believe it's outside the scope of Tesla to be able to be concerned about all aspects of every other manufacturer's business. As individuals within the corporation, I'm sure they are concerned about the lives of all people in general.
Bonus answer: Your question is a strawman that attempts to side step your earlier assertion that the issue was giving the media fodder by meddling in a Tesla repair that would not be up to the original standards of the vehicle.
In attempting to compare the relative safety of your suggested repair to some other vehicle, you either:
- Invalidate your earlier stance
- Allow that something more extreme is also OK:
"Although my Tesla repair is substandard, it's ok because it's safer than the rattle-trap 27 year old Pinto I drive today. Also, I've received no letter from Tesla expressing their concern for the death-mobile I'm driving, so they don't care about me. I also suspect they kill puppies."
To be honest, I'm as interested in following your repair odyssey as much as BTR's (or Otmar's journey before him). I just don't care for the double standard.
No, not really... Social awareness and technical skills are completely independent of each other.
Furthermore, I would think it is quite obvious that the real point being conveyed by asking the rhetorical question "What does the media have to do with me?" is relating Tesla holding me responsible for the media's actions as equally unfair as me holding Tesla responsible for Toyota's problems.
Actually, it is. Many states require receipts for new airbags before a salvage vehicle is allowed to be legally driven on the road. By restricting the sale of the airbags, they prevent salvage cars from being put back on the road without being properly repaired.
I fail to see the hypocrisy here when I'm doing everything reasonably possible to maintain safety, going so far as to conduct a complex mechanical analysis with the review of experienced automotive mechanical engineers on the repair, while at that time BTR was showing very little care toward his lithium-ion cells.
no salvage car is drivable as it is blacklisted and wont wake up. As such tesla has no bussiness seling pyrotechnics.
I don't know why but this is already my favorite thread.
satoshi, if you want I have 4 side curtain airbags from a different manufacturer, you can have them for FREE.
This is how I envision satoshi right now...
satoshi, if you want I have 4 side curtain airbags from a different manufacturer, you can have them for FREE.
This is how I envision satoshi right now...
As it is equally outside the scope of individuals in society to be able to be concerned about the public relations concerns of every single company they interact with.
I've never held the expectation that individuals, or even other corporations for that matter, can bring a car that has been in an accident back to factory specifications. If that was how my "stoning of BTR" was interpreted, then I would say I did not pay careful enough attention to how I worded my posts.
See below:
Yes, I am stating complete agreement that my prior stance, wherein I berated BTR, is invalidated.
Returning a car to new condition is not a standard in the automotive industry regarding post-accident repair.
Per the advice of a mechanical engineer with 20+ years automotive experience, it would appear that the idea of cutting out and reinforcing with new metal via a TIG weld is above and beyond the standards for post-accident repair in the automotive industry.
Whereas the careful handling of lithium ion cells is a standard electrical safety practice.
The double standard comes from the fact we are dealing with two different industries...
I don't really think that it is a product of my creation.
Probably because we both knew I was to be falling on my own sword in the process.
[For people who read this thread at a later date and time, I changed my avatar to the adventure time gif BTR posted as of this post]
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First off, best of luck with your repair process, I do hope you will achieve what you want.
However, as a metallurgical engineer, I feel I must at least indicate the danger of what you are doing (though I believe you are aware of it). I'm mostly referring to the repair of the B-pillar: welding v straightening. I'm not sure which you prefer now, so I'll argue both sides, and point out both risks.
Be aware that the B pillar is most probably a dual/complex phase steel. These are not super easy to weld as the alloying content is probably high. Are you positive a TIG weld will have the good heat input? Think about the fact that if you replace and weld a new piece (or add a strengthening piece), you add a heat affected zone (HAZ) to your structure, which will have both a softer and a more brittle zone than your base material depending on your welding parameters and your filler wire. As someone else pointed out, if Tesla did not place a weld and HAZ here, they probably don't want one there as well. On a structural safety part, I would not want to just place some welds and be done with it. Fact is you won't know how your metal will react, and if you could soften or embrittle your metal considerably. I've seen both happen, and none are what you want to have on the pillar which basically saves your life on a side impact, and protects the battery from being crumpled into a raging fireball of burning lithium in an accident.
Tl;dr: dangerous to weld unless you're absolutely certain of what you're doing. Get a welding engineer involved with automotive experience.
Secondly, bending the steel. Since it's a dual phase steel, it'll have some elongation to be able to take it, but the brittle zones (inherent to the steel to give it its tensile strength and stiffness) don't like to be bent. Like at all. Microcracks could occur, you can enduce fatigue cracks to form, etc. Fatigue is probable the biggest danger, as your car will drive on streets and will be constantly under different load cycles, which can enlarge the fatigue crack, and ultimately lead to failure. This is where I fear that the 'good enough for who's driving it' attitude can potentially be dangerous down the line, even though I generally also think in this manner.
Have you thought about bolting or riveting a strengthening piece? I'm no expert on this, but it might give you less headaches that a weld or a bend...
Lastly, be aware that welding aluminium is totally different than welding steel, and that the degree of softening or embrittlement can vary greatly due to the alloying content.
I'm not sure which way I would go, but this is not a straight forward solution. I don't want to discourage you completely however, I just want to preach caution and that you need to rethink and recheck every action you'll take.
Hoping it'll work out, interested in your progress.
However, as a metallurgical engineer, I feel I must at least indicate the danger of what you are doing (though I believe you are aware of it). I'm mostly referring to the repair of the B-pillar: welding v straightening. I'm not sure which you prefer now, so I'll argue both sides, and point out both risks.
Be aware that the B pillar is most probably a dual/complex phase steel. These are not super easy to weld as the alloying content is probably high. Are you positive a TIG weld will have the good heat input? Think about the fact that if you replace and weld a new piece (or add a strengthening piece), you add a heat affected zone (HAZ) to your structure, which will have both a softer and a more brittle zone than your base material depending on your welding parameters and your filler wire. As someone else pointed out, if Tesla did not place a weld and HAZ here, they probably don't want one there as well. On a structural safety part, I would not want to just place some welds and be done with it. Fact is you won't know how your metal will react, and if you could soften or embrittle your metal considerably. I've seen both happen, and none are what you want to have on the pillar which basically saves your life on a side impact, and protects the battery from being crumpled into a raging fireball of burning lithium in an accident.
Tl;dr: dangerous to weld unless you're absolutely certain of what you're doing. Get a welding engineer involved with automotive experience.
Secondly, bending the steel. Since it's a dual phase steel, it'll have some elongation to be able to take it, but the brittle zones (inherent to the steel to give it its tensile strength and stiffness) don't like to be bent. Like at all. Microcracks could occur, you can enduce fatigue cracks to form, etc. Fatigue is probable the biggest danger, as your car will drive on streets and will be constantly under different load cycles, which can enlarge the fatigue crack, and ultimately lead to failure. This is where I fear that the 'good enough for who's driving it' attitude can potentially be dangerous down the line, even though I generally also think in this manner.
Have you thought about bolting or riveting a strengthening piece? I'm no expert on this, but it might give you less headaches that a weld or a bend...
Lastly, be aware that welding aluminium is totally different than welding steel, and that the degree of softening or embrittlement can vary greatly due to the alloying content.
I'm not sure which way I would go, but this is not a straight forward solution. I don't want to discourage you completely however, I just want to preach caution and that you need to rethink and recheck every action you'll take.
Hoping it'll work out, interested in your progress.
The B pillar is one of the few structures on the car that is HSS (High-Strength Steel) rather than aluminum. It joins to the aluminum with fasteners and structural adhesive and is clearly a highly FEA'd part.
Even if you don't care about the quality of the repair, does that mean you will crush the car when you are done with it? What if you die in an accidental electrocution and your estate sells the car off to a young family?
Even if you don't care about the quality of the repair, does that mean you will crush the car when you are done with it? What if you die in an accidental electrocution and your estate sells the car off to a young family?
zhur0002
Member
Blacklisted cars are drivable. Tesla does not physically shut off your car. They will shut off supercharging and stop their support. I drove my blacklisted car for 6mo before I had it re-certified.
This is what I intend to do when I get to that point in the repair process. I've been very clear that I am not a mechanical engineer and won't pretend to be one.
Also I just learned that the local technical college has frame straightening hardware and will get into contact with them about potential use.
