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A flight instructor teaches Tesla Autopilot

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Papafox, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    When I was in high school you had to take drivers ed (classroom) and drivers training (in a car with a teacher). There was an incentive in that the Insurance companies offered parents a discount if you completed the training. That was followed by 6 months of real driving with my dad right next to me. I didn't just jump in a car and get my drivers license. There was training involved. I see a similar, but abbreviated, training experience for AP. Perhaps MyTesla will have a 15 minute overview of the features, risks, benefits and what to watch out for. @Papafox could narrate :). Once completed AP will activate. That would be good for the driver, the public and the regulators.
     
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  2. Larry

    Larry Member

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    I agree with this as my quote indicates. No amount of reading and watching can replace practical experience. Not sure how you could institute your AP drivers Ed.
     
  3. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    A video is a great idea. Put it on youtube, see if it gets traction, and go from there. Planning it right now ; )
     
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  4. garygid

    garygid Member

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    Tesla's Steering Assist in not programmed to recognize cross traffic, or impending cross traffic.
    Thus, it is suggested that controlled-access highways are better suited for using this Beta software.

    Since the dead driver did not react or brake for the truck crossing in front of him, he most likely did not see the truck, and would have crashed in any type car.

    Classroom training, sure: be sufficiently aware, stay in control, no matter what you think the vehicle should do.
    Strangely, even trains still crash ... what is the lession there?
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    Accidents like this happen in a very few seconds. Sometimes you can get lucky and just happen to notice in time to do something about it, and sometimes not. No one stays focused 100% of the time. Autopilot can, but it's limited by hardware and software. Still you're better off with autopilot than without it because it will catch many of the potential crash situations. I'd suggest that this unfortunate accident had more to do with the road not following the geometric design standards than it did with either the driver or autopilot. Had there been a decent size median between the two traffic flows, a) the truck driver might have stopped the truck in the median, b) the Tesla driver would have had more time to notice, and c) the speed of the truck would have been lower.

    It's generally impractical to engineer for the thousand year flood.
     
  6. dkemme

    dkemme Supporting Member

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    Uncle Elon should sponsor you, as the voice of experience and reason.
     
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  7. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    Will be going to Reno for TMC Connect but will do the video shortly afterwards. Thanks all for the encouragement!
     
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  8. Beryl

    Beryl Supporting Member

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    I totally agree with this suggestion.

    Before receiving my vehicle and throughout my nearly 8 months of driving it, I've been referring to this thread. In fact, I copied it to Evernote. I think it helped me be more confident and responsible with AP and prevented some mistakes.
     
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  9. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    Here's a new way of looking at Tesla's requirement to keep your hands on the wheel. Your hands certainly are on the wheel in order to take over if needed, but there's another vital function. Your hands give you feedback regarding the autopilot's left or right turning inputs. A lack of inputs could be a sign that autopilot is not in lane-keeping operation, and an excessive turn to the left or right could be your cue that it's time to take over the lane-keeping duties.

    At the 2016 Tesla Motors Club conference in Reno, one industry expert said that a person who is not paying attention could take up to 7 seconds to regain control of the vehicle. While I think that number might be exaggerated, I do know that if you've lost situational awareness (traffic and other pertinent information), you will require seconds to put it all back together. Personally, I've found that my time to disconnect the autopilot when I am not happy has been growing shorter over time, and I strongly believe it's less than half a second now.
     
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  10. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    Hi Papfox,

    I just stumbled on this thread and love what you did. I wish I had seen it when first taken delivery, but I still find it helpful.
    Any chance of a New Owners manual sequel in the near future, indexed to easily seek-out all the valuable information.

    NikeWings out
     
  11. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    NikeWings- Prepare yourself for A Flight Instructor Teaches Tesla Autopilot- THE VIDEO. Under construction right now ; )
     
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  12. Rupe

    Rupe Member

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    I'm commenting on the word "autopilot" and typical misunderstandings. I too was a flight instructor, not for as many years, but in 3 Air Force fighters. As far back as can remember, the word "autopilot" was used to describe a level of flight control not provided by the pilot. There was altitude hold and heading hold, then course hold (corrected for winds), and then track hold (point A to B). Auto-throttles were introduced somewhere along the line. Now some autopilots can fly from gear up through landing. Note that they are all still called "autopilots." Each with a specified level of sophistication. It's the specified part--not the assumed part--that drivers need to understand about Tesla's autopilot implementation and its upgrades. There was never any doubt in my mind as to who was responsible for safe flight, nor should there be any doubt in a driver's mind who is responsible. One thing I learned as an instructor pilot is that it's not the "bad" students that will kill you, it's the good ones, because you let your guard down, trusting longer than you should. For low-level operations we also had a saying to not fly below your comfort level, even if cleared lower, but I found that one can get comfortable at 100 feet and 500 knots, where there is very little time to react to a bad situation. I've seen the Tesla autopilot mature and drive more like a seasoned driver than a new one, but it still makes "knee-jerk" reactions. As Tesla smooths these out and drivers get comfortable using it, I caution you--no, implore you--NEVER let your guard down to this technology, especially one that has the power to kill.
     
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  13. Patrick W

    Patrick W Active Member

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    Do you suppose they are talking about when Teslas are totally autonomous?

    patrick (retired CFI)

    0tes.jpg
     
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  14. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    This is a late reply to an important post While the autopilot in your plane may be engaged, it is never the pilot in command. The same is true with autopilot operations in a Tesla prior to the release of a fully-autonomous version of self-driving. Until then, you are in charge all the time. One of the first things someone needs to learn with autopilot operations in a Tesla is how to turn it off. If I were teaching someone new to use the autopilot, I'd have them turn on autopilot a bunch of times in a no-traffic situation and then immediately get used to the various ways of disengaging autopilot, particularly by turning the wheel. Thus, the driver quickly comes to realize that his or her control of the vehicle is never more than half a second away.
     
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  15. Mark Vallaster

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    A good post. I'm a pilot as well and when learning autopilot I was constantly reminded that its a tool like every other instrument or piece of equipment. And all equipment is failable. Its there to make our workload easier and you're still in charge.
     
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  16. FluxCap

    FluxCap Active Member

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    #136 FluxCap, Mar 31, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
    This is a superb post, thank you Papafox.

    This is certainly a tragic accident and nothing will change the outcome of this particular instance, but I believe throwing out life-saving driver assist technologies like Tesla's completely is not the answer.

    Certification programs may help:
    -Drivers could be certified to handle these technologies within their limits as Papafox suggests.
    -Cars and driver assist technologies could be certified for differing levels of approved usage based on testing
    -Roads and map areas could be certified for driver assist technology suitability (some roads may be deemed too complex for driver assist usage).

    Teslas remain some of the safest cars ever made despite this tragedy, and I'm confident a prudent course of action can be found to maintain the life-saving benefits of driver assist technology while avoiding tragic accidents like this in the future.
     
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  17. EVie'sDad

    EVie'sDad Member

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    May I also suggest new drivers be required to do a thorough perusal of this forum and the online user's manual in their vehicle. To better understand both the capabilities and limitations of this highly complex system. This is not your grandfather's automobile, keep that in mind at all times while operating this piece of technology.
     
  18. asLan7

    asLan7 Member

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    Wow. Great post papafox and rupe.

    As a military instructor pilot, evaluator pilot, and pilot for a major airline who also holds a current flight instructor license, I can truly relate to your posts...and agree 100%.

    Thank you for the great information.
     
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  19. bluedog

    bluedog Member

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    This has been a great learning blog for me. I am new to Tesla with just taking delivery of my Red Model 3. I feel more connected to the driving experience and, believe me, my hands are on the wheel full time when in Auto Steer. Thanks to John Sergeant on Motley Fool Tesla board for directing me to this blog.

    Bluedog
     
  20. Agassi

    Agassi Member

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    #140 Agassi, Feb 15, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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