I thought I would get a detailed story of how and why we bought a used 2013 MS85 through Tesla to document and perhaps help others in their process. I wanted to note that we did not buy a "CPO" Tesla; we bought a "used" car from Tesla and so our value and expectations were adjusted accordingly. We didn't expect a newly refurbished car, but a used car in reasonable condition given the age and mileage.
Brief summary:
Bought a used TMS85 to get more range and solo-carpool lane access. Used forum during the process to gather a realistic expectation and reduce future regret. Bought the car, changed the way I drive on the highway, and my wife is very happy with a car 3X the range of her previous EV and doesn't have to charge it 3 times a day. And now for the longer more detailed version.
Why a used TMS85?
In 2017, I bought my wife a used 2013 Fiat 500e at a 1-star Yelp! reviewed used car dealer at a local California dealership after she test drove her friend's leased 500e. She missed driving a small car and would feel a little less concerned about her carbon footprint since she drove 90-miles roundtrip to her office in downtown LA. The added perk was that the car came with white solo HOV access decals that allowed her to both ride in the carpool lanes by herself and the toll fees along the 110 fwy were waived. We paid $7,300 out the door for the car and quickly piled on over 40K miles in less than 2 years, and without any issues with the car. Compared to her Rx400h, the 500e used 1,400 less gallons of gas and saved about $6K on fuel and toll charges...an 82.2% offset to the cost of the car in less than 2 years.
We were aware that the decal privilege would expire on 1/1/2019, so my wife implored me to look into a practical solution. After reading through the CARB website, I realized that eligible cars registered before 2017 would not have their privilege renewed, but eligible cars registered after 2017 would be given a red decal good through 1/1/2022, and first-time eligible cars registered after 1/1/2019 would receive a purple decal good through 1/1/2023. It didn't matter if the car was used or purchased new, as long as the car was on the list of eligible recipients and never registered for a decal previously. I called both CARB and the DMV to verify. The search for a new eligible car was on.
I started looking at 2015-2017 Fiat 500es since my wife loved it so much. The revised interior and remote access via mobile app would be nice, and there were plenty in the $9K-13K range. As the weather got colder and my wife started driving home faster (traffic patterns were getting lighter during early winter), she would get home eith 5 miles of range left! She would also have to take the Rx400h for days when she needed more than 60 miles of range; extra range and faster charging would be a huge help. I cross shopped the BMW i3 REX, 2017 e-Golf, Bolt, and TMS. I fear BMW reliability, the e-Golf used a passively-cooled battery (degradation expected much faster), my wife loved driving our friend's Bolt but couldn't stomach the design, and that left the Model S.
We stopped by our local Tesla store on 12/22/18 and test drove a TMS P100D and the Tesla rep insisted that we borrow the car for overnight. We took the car out to test it out on our steep driveway, how it would drive on local roads, and to check out all the Christmas decoration/boat parade in the neighborhood. We quickly realized that the car was too much for us. We didn't need all that power, the high fidelity sound system seemed a little muddy to me, and the car was really wide but we loved the turning radius. We were happiest with "chill mode" on and all other settings on soft. I lamented that the air suspension only controlled height and not qualitative dampening (how nice would it be to have "riding on a cloud" mode?). The $100K price tag made me realize that I would probably have to get an auto loan for the first time in my life, so we talked to the rep about buying a used Tesla and he was very understanding about that.
Finding the right Tesla
Our number one priority was finding a statistically reliable TMS that was never registered for the Ca HOV decal. Second on the list was price/value, third was proximity, and fourth was equipment and appointments. Tesla's website would geolocate cars nearest us, but I Googled "Las Vegas" and "Phoenix" zip codes knowing that I could easily get there by car or plane and drive the car back the same day, and the likelihood of an out-of-state car previously registered for the decal program was extremely slim. I quickly found a 2013 TMS 85 w/ air suspension, tech package, dual chargers, sunroof, and 60K miles
for just under $40K. It was after that I Googled the VIN and stubbled upon EV-CPO.com.
I called the special processing division of the DMV to confirm that the VIN was eligible for the new decal; it was eligible. I requested photos, ran a quick Autocheck, and called my local used Tesla rep (Sean Singh) with a few questions. He estimated that the range degradation was less than 3% given the estimated range and SOC%, and tire tread depth (F6/32/R9/32). He ran me through the process and I quickly put a deposit down and completed the 6 steps through the Tesla account on 12/24/18. An hour later, I received a call from Sean saying to expect delivery within 10 days and that the holidays might slow things down a bit.
Delivery appointment
12/26/18, I received a call from Lance Xie, Fremont, to explain where we were in the process and to ask I had any questions. It seemed a little redundant with the info I got from Sean, but I guess more info and contact is rarely a bad thing. I started searching this forum to get an idea of what to expect and read a number of negative experiences so I thought of ways to address these concerns without seeming pushy.
12/28/18, I sent an email to Lance and Sean to confirm that the car will be ready upon the delivery appointment (1/3/19), the J1722 adapter is included, Supercharging is enabled, the vehicle to charged to at least 80% for my drive back to Ca, the total amount due, a vehicle history of repair/maintenance/recall work, a request for at least 2 key fobs, and the contact info of the delivery rep. They confirmed everything but vehicle history, the delivery rep info, and the amount due telling me the latter two would be revealed 24-72hrs before the appt.
1/2/2019, I received a call from Gilbert at the Tempe delivery center confirming our appointment, registration information, and amount due. I told him that I preferred to pay by cashier's check just in the case the vehicle falls unreasonable short of description/expectation, he agreed.
1/3/2019, I flew from Orange County, Ca to Phoenix, AZ, and took a 6 mi Lyft ride to the delivery center. The front desk rep and delivery rep were courteous and friendly. I signed the registration papers, authority for Tesla to work interstate with DMV on my behalf, and I reserved to sign the delivery paper and surrender my cashier's check until after I saw the car.
The car
The car was in incredible shape with just two small nicks on the rear bumper cover just below the trunk, a few small smudges on the rear headliner, a little frayed stitching on the lower B-pillar, and the front bumper cover had a little sand-scarring. To my surprise they replaced the tires with a brand new set of Goodyear Eagle RSA. I signed the delivery recipient doc and handed over the cashier's check. The delivery rep walked me through the mobile app, registered the car for Slacker streaming radio, and went through all the features. I was in and out in less than one hour.
I avoided Phoenix traffic by escaping before 1pm. I punched in navigation to my local Supercharger and it estimated my route, where to Supercharge and for how long, and I was on my way. I quickly realized my 2001 VW Golf TDI may no longer be my road-trip car of choice despite its 700 mile fuel range, robust 300K mile history, and fun to drive factor. It's moderately modified with a flashed ECU, larger fuel injector nozzles, Torsen differential, coilovers (+1"/-1"), 28mm adjustable rear sway bar, big brakes, Michelin Super Sports, and 12% taller 5th gear set. The MS85 air suspension and chasis provides both more rigidity and cushion over road imperfections. Cruising at 80mph with spurts to 94mph felt effortless and surprisingly relaxing. The aerodynamics, long wheelbase, long hood, and control of the car felt like I was only going 50...a completely different experience to my TDI even with the taller 5th gear.
Compared to the 400 mile old P100D we borrowed, the 2013 TMS85 felt a lot more forgiving over the road. I suspect the suspension & seats were nicely broken in while the 19" tires provide a lot better cushion compared to the 21s of the loaner.
My drive home
The navigation planned for me to stop in Quartzsite for Supercharging which was 140 mi away and I had ~200 miles of estimated range miles. I recall Az using speed cameras, so I made sure to not go 5mph over the flow of traffic while in the metro Phoenix area. Once I hit the open highway I cranked my speed up to 70-80mph while browsing through the streaming audio services. I would move to the right to not impede faster drivers, but after getting stuck behind trucks trying to do a double-pass and oblivious drivers hogging the left lane, I completely changed my strategy.
I saw that I had about 60 miles of headroom to the Supercharger and I read that Supercharging is more time efficient if the battery has a lower SOC% since Supercharging tapers as the battery gets fuller to capacity; fuel efficiency be damned...I wanted to save time and frustration. I upped my cruising speed to 80-85mph and would spend spurts going faster than that to clear slower vehicles and avoid getting stuck behind trains of vehicles during passing. As my speeds dropped as I hung back waiting for cars to pass, the regenerative system kicks in (I had it set on low) and I found that to be no big deal. In my TDI, I would get frustrated when I had to break momentum when other drivers cut-in or cause congestion by squeezing into gaps where weren't intended to go (causing a chain-reaction of brake lights and over-compensation).
I watched my range estimate drop and I watched the Supercharger stall available oscillate between 6-0 of 8 stalls available. Fortunately for me, I got there with 6 stalls available and 30 miles of range left. I Supercharged at 102kW/h...much faster than the 6.8kW/h that our 500e maxes out at. I stopped in to use the restroom, grab a bite to eat, and catch up on a few emails. 30 minutes later, the charging rate dropped to just under 40kW/h and I had more than 70 miles of headroom to the Indio Superchargers. I was on the road again.
I pulled over at the next exit as I discovered my charging port door was open. Apparently you do not need to press the button on the Supercharger wand to fasten it into its holster, but does reopen your charge port door. Secondly, the port door pivots opposite the headwind while driving forward. Going too fast might actually damage the door. Given the pivot point is opposite on our Fiat 500e charge port door will close with wind speeds above 45mph. Lesson learned and I made sure to tell my wife.
I got to Indio with 7/8 stalls available. The first stall I pulled into was all over the place, but would not charge about 31kW/h. It would fluctuate from 31-20-31 numerous times per minute. I said nurtz to that and reparked at the adjacent stall; 103kW/h within seconds. I stopped into the Starbucks and hit the road 30 minutes later. My last stop was Main Place Mall in Santa Ana. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of range for my wife's round-trip commute the next day. I got home around 8pm and took my wife out for her to test drive. The following day I read through the owner's manual and went through the important stuff with my wife while I instructed her how to charge and Supercharge the car...along with common etiquette at the station lots.
A few quirks
I'll have to make an appt with my local service center (<2 mi from my house) because the rear defroster doesn't seem to do anything, the brake pedal has a creaking rubber-on-rubber sound upon the first couple applications per driving sessions, and we get a low coolant warning when we park on our sloped driveway. I suspect the 30A fuse might be blown on the defroster, the pedal pivot might need a little lubrication, and the incline might be too much for coolant level sensor to give an accurate reading.
Brief summary:
Bought a used TMS85 to get more range and solo-carpool lane access. Used forum during the process to gather a realistic expectation and reduce future regret. Bought the car, changed the way I drive on the highway, and my wife is very happy with a car 3X the range of her previous EV and doesn't have to charge it 3 times a day. And now for the longer more detailed version.
Why a used TMS85?
In 2017, I bought my wife a used 2013 Fiat 500e at a 1-star Yelp! reviewed used car dealer at a local California dealership after she test drove her friend's leased 500e. She missed driving a small car and would feel a little less concerned about her carbon footprint since she drove 90-miles roundtrip to her office in downtown LA. The added perk was that the car came with white solo HOV access decals that allowed her to both ride in the carpool lanes by herself and the toll fees along the 110 fwy were waived. We paid $7,300 out the door for the car and quickly piled on over 40K miles in less than 2 years, and without any issues with the car. Compared to her Rx400h, the 500e used 1,400 less gallons of gas and saved about $6K on fuel and toll charges...an 82.2% offset to the cost of the car in less than 2 years.
We were aware that the decal privilege would expire on 1/1/2019, so my wife implored me to look into a practical solution. After reading through the CARB website, I realized that eligible cars registered before 2017 would not have their privilege renewed, but eligible cars registered after 2017 would be given a red decal good through 1/1/2022, and first-time eligible cars registered after 1/1/2019 would receive a purple decal good through 1/1/2023. It didn't matter if the car was used or purchased new, as long as the car was on the list of eligible recipients and never registered for a decal previously. I called both CARB and the DMV to verify. The search for a new eligible car was on.
I started looking at 2015-2017 Fiat 500es since my wife loved it so much. The revised interior and remote access via mobile app would be nice, and there were plenty in the $9K-13K range. As the weather got colder and my wife started driving home faster (traffic patterns were getting lighter during early winter), she would get home eith 5 miles of range left! She would also have to take the Rx400h for days when she needed more than 60 miles of range; extra range and faster charging would be a huge help. I cross shopped the BMW i3 REX, 2017 e-Golf, Bolt, and TMS. I fear BMW reliability, the e-Golf used a passively-cooled battery (degradation expected much faster), my wife loved driving our friend's Bolt but couldn't stomach the design, and that left the Model S.
We stopped by our local Tesla store on 12/22/18 and test drove a TMS P100D and the Tesla rep insisted that we borrow the car for overnight. We took the car out to test it out on our steep driveway, how it would drive on local roads, and to check out all the Christmas decoration/boat parade in the neighborhood. We quickly realized that the car was too much for us. We didn't need all that power, the high fidelity sound system seemed a little muddy to me, and the car was really wide but we loved the turning radius. We were happiest with "chill mode" on and all other settings on soft. I lamented that the air suspension only controlled height and not qualitative dampening (how nice would it be to have "riding on a cloud" mode?). The $100K price tag made me realize that I would probably have to get an auto loan for the first time in my life, so we talked to the rep about buying a used Tesla and he was very understanding about that.
Finding the right Tesla
Our number one priority was finding a statistically reliable TMS that was never registered for the Ca HOV decal. Second on the list was price/value, third was proximity, and fourth was equipment and appointments. Tesla's website would geolocate cars nearest us, but I Googled "Las Vegas" and "Phoenix" zip codes knowing that I could easily get there by car or plane and drive the car back the same day, and the likelihood of an out-of-state car previously registered for the decal program was extremely slim. I quickly found a 2013 TMS 85 w/ air suspension, tech package, dual chargers, sunroof, and 60K miles
for just under $40K. It was after that I Googled the VIN and stubbled upon EV-CPO.com.
I called the special processing division of the DMV to confirm that the VIN was eligible for the new decal; it was eligible. I requested photos, ran a quick Autocheck, and called my local used Tesla rep (Sean Singh) with a few questions. He estimated that the range degradation was less than 3% given the estimated range and SOC%, and tire tread depth (F6/32/R9/32). He ran me through the process and I quickly put a deposit down and completed the 6 steps through the Tesla account on 12/24/18. An hour later, I received a call from Sean saying to expect delivery within 10 days and that the holidays might slow things down a bit.
Delivery appointment
12/26/18, I received a call from Lance Xie, Fremont, to explain where we were in the process and to ask I had any questions. It seemed a little redundant with the info I got from Sean, but I guess more info and contact is rarely a bad thing. I started searching this forum to get an idea of what to expect and read a number of negative experiences so I thought of ways to address these concerns without seeming pushy.
12/28/18, I sent an email to Lance and Sean to confirm that the car will be ready upon the delivery appointment (1/3/19), the J1722 adapter is included, Supercharging is enabled, the vehicle to charged to at least 80% for my drive back to Ca, the total amount due, a vehicle history of repair/maintenance/recall work, a request for at least 2 key fobs, and the contact info of the delivery rep. They confirmed everything but vehicle history, the delivery rep info, and the amount due telling me the latter two would be revealed 24-72hrs before the appt.
1/2/2019, I received a call from Gilbert at the Tempe delivery center confirming our appointment, registration information, and amount due. I told him that I preferred to pay by cashier's check just in the case the vehicle falls unreasonable short of description/expectation, he agreed.
1/3/2019, I flew from Orange County, Ca to Phoenix, AZ, and took a 6 mi Lyft ride to the delivery center. The front desk rep and delivery rep were courteous and friendly. I signed the registration papers, authority for Tesla to work interstate with DMV on my behalf, and I reserved to sign the delivery paper and surrender my cashier's check until after I saw the car.
The car
The car was in incredible shape with just two small nicks on the rear bumper cover just below the trunk, a few small smudges on the rear headliner, a little frayed stitching on the lower B-pillar, and the front bumper cover had a little sand-scarring. To my surprise they replaced the tires with a brand new set of Goodyear Eagle RSA. I signed the delivery recipient doc and handed over the cashier's check. The delivery rep walked me through the mobile app, registered the car for Slacker streaming radio, and went through all the features. I was in and out in less than one hour.
I avoided Phoenix traffic by escaping before 1pm. I punched in navigation to my local Supercharger and it estimated my route, where to Supercharge and for how long, and I was on my way. I quickly realized my 2001 VW Golf TDI may no longer be my road-trip car of choice despite its 700 mile fuel range, robust 300K mile history, and fun to drive factor. It's moderately modified with a flashed ECU, larger fuel injector nozzles, Torsen differential, coilovers (+1"/-1"), 28mm adjustable rear sway bar, big brakes, Michelin Super Sports, and 12% taller 5th gear set. The MS85 air suspension and chasis provides both more rigidity and cushion over road imperfections. Cruising at 80mph with spurts to 94mph felt effortless and surprisingly relaxing. The aerodynamics, long wheelbase, long hood, and control of the car felt like I was only going 50...a completely different experience to my TDI even with the taller 5th gear.
Compared to the 400 mile old P100D we borrowed, the 2013 TMS85 felt a lot more forgiving over the road. I suspect the suspension & seats were nicely broken in while the 19" tires provide a lot better cushion compared to the 21s of the loaner.
My drive home
The navigation planned for me to stop in Quartzsite for Supercharging which was 140 mi away and I had ~200 miles of estimated range miles. I recall Az using speed cameras, so I made sure to not go 5mph over the flow of traffic while in the metro Phoenix area. Once I hit the open highway I cranked my speed up to 70-80mph while browsing through the streaming audio services. I would move to the right to not impede faster drivers, but after getting stuck behind trucks trying to do a double-pass and oblivious drivers hogging the left lane, I completely changed my strategy.
I saw that I had about 60 miles of headroom to the Supercharger and I read that Supercharging is more time efficient if the battery has a lower SOC% since Supercharging tapers as the battery gets fuller to capacity; fuel efficiency be damned...I wanted to save time and frustration. I upped my cruising speed to 80-85mph and would spend spurts going faster than that to clear slower vehicles and avoid getting stuck behind trains of vehicles during passing. As my speeds dropped as I hung back waiting for cars to pass, the regenerative system kicks in (I had it set on low) and I found that to be no big deal. In my TDI, I would get frustrated when I had to break momentum when other drivers cut-in or cause congestion by squeezing into gaps where weren't intended to go (causing a chain-reaction of brake lights and over-compensation).
I watched my range estimate drop and I watched the Supercharger stall available oscillate between 6-0 of 8 stalls available. Fortunately for me, I got there with 6 stalls available and 30 miles of range left. I Supercharged at 102kW/h...much faster than the 6.8kW/h that our 500e maxes out at. I stopped in to use the restroom, grab a bite to eat, and catch up on a few emails. 30 minutes later, the charging rate dropped to just under 40kW/h and I had more than 70 miles of headroom to the Indio Superchargers. I was on the road again.
I pulled over at the next exit as I discovered my charging port door was open. Apparently you do not need to press the button on the Supercharger wand to fasten it into its holster, but does reopen your charge port door. Secondly, the port door pivots opposite the headwind while driving forward. Going too fast might actually damage the door. Given the pivot point is opposite on our Fiat 500e charge port door will close with wind speeds above 45mph. Lesson learned and I made sure to tell my wife.
I got to Indio with 7/8 stalls available. The first stall I pulled into was all over the place, but would not charge about 31kW/h. It would fluctuate from 31-20-31 numerous times per minute. I said nurtz to that and reparked at the adjacent stall; 103kW/h within seconds. I stopped into the Starbucks and hit the road 30 minutes later. My last stop was Main Place Mall in Santa Ana. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of range for my wife's round-trip commute the next day. I got home around 8pm and took my wife out for her to test drive. The following day I read through the owner's manual and went through the important stuff with my wife while I instructed her how to charge and Supercharge the car...along with common etiquette at the station lots.
A few quirks
I'll have to make an appt with my local service center (<2 mi from my house) because the rear defroster doesn't seem to do anything, the brake pedal has a creaking rubber-on-rubber sound upon the first couple applications per driving sessions, and we get a low coolant warning when we park on our sloped driveway. I suspect the 30A fuse might be blown on the defroster, the pedal pivot might need a little lubrication, and the incline might be too much for coolant level sensor to give an accurate reading.
