A little disheartened by the competition

[sk19]

So I'm all excited about getting my Model X.

Told a mate about it last night and he's got a flipping Vauxhall and he says "yeah mine does the assistive cruise control and the driver lane assist thing too".. A lowly Vauxhall Tigra?

So other than the doors and big screen and speed what is it that's so special about the Tesla if other cars are dong exactly the same thing ? We haven't got navigate on AP in the UK.

My only guess is nobody does it slightly better?

 

[theoceanwaves]

Lots of new features will be rolling out through over the air updates. Scroll through Elon Musk's twitter to see what's new: Elon Musk (@elonmusk) | Twitter

 

[J X 3]

His late assist is just a lane departure warning, if the car leaves the lane, it flashes an icon.

 

[Terry_B58]

Agreed, my Kia Niro had lane keep assist and Adaptive cruise control.

BUT

The LKA, would follow the white lines, the steering wheel 'nag' was a lot more often than my MS, also, if I ignored the 'nag' the car would nag more and then disengage almost saying - it is up to you now !!! With the MS, the hazards flash and the car will slowly and safely bring you to a stop (you might be in lane 3 of the motorway, but you are not still hurtling along)

The ACC would slow you down to follow the car in front, it would not stop you. Once the speed had dropped it would disengage and the car would then just keep on rolling (creep).

Not sure about other marques

 

[WannabeOwner]

"yeah mine does the assistive cruise control and the driver lane assist thing too"

So ... set the speed to 60 MPH on a straight A road approaching a tight double bend, what will the Vauxhall Tigra do? Slow down for the right bend? I have no idea, but I doubt it ...

Will it slow down for a 30MPH limit? and speed back up again when you come out of the limit? (Don't know the answer to that one either).

On dual carriageway how does it pass a slower car? Does driver have to disable the lane keeping (either using controls, or "deliberately steer"), manually overtake, and then re-apply LKA? I don't know what it does then either, but if it indicates when LKA is applied/cancelled each time (e.g. a Bing-Bong) that will be really annoying for passengers. And if it just silently disables how will the driver know it has stopped? Tesla: either indicate to initiate an overtake, or (with newer OTA version) car will just overtake on its own initiative, when the outside lane is clear.

 

[pjuk]

I’ve been driving an Audi for the past 5 years with ACC and lane assist. I have to say that the ACC in the Audi is great and I can basically stick it on and not have to worry about a thing at any speed. It’s still a little unnerving when traffic comes to a stop as it does feel that it leaves things a bit too late. It’s also a bit cautious with leaving time and room when vehicles leave the lane to speed up again and from behind it must seem that I’m a nervous driver. Lane assist though is more like ping pong with three strikes and you’re out! I tried yesterday around a tight bend and it didn’t work and would have ended up on a verge or in hedge if I hadn’t intervened.

The downside is that it is a pain to activate - a button here, pull of a lever there, set the speed, distance etc... When I test drove the MX I recall it was as simple as pulling a lever beside the wheel with a nice “dong” as feedback.

Yes the car is over twice the price of my Audi, but it will be fast, big inside and I’ll feel like an astronaut driving it plus the kids and wife loved it!

 

[ewoodrick]

Take both cars down a surface street. See which one can make it through intersections and curves.

Then just smile.

 

[WannabeOwner]

It’s still a little unnerving when traffic comes to a stop as it does feel that it leaves things a bit too late. It’s also a bit cautious with leaving time and room when vehicles leave the lane to speed up again and from behind it must seem that I’m a nervous driver

That's exactly what the TACC in the last Golf BlueMotion I had was like. Annoyed me, for an Eco Box, that it haired up behind a car and jumped on the brakes at the last moment - very unnerving for passengers too, and having lost all that momentum then was very tardy to get going after the car in front pulled over, as you describe.

Your Audi is newer than that, but it doesn't sound a lot better, but AP is certainly like night-and-day compared to the Golf's complete lack of subtlety. I'm constantly amazed by the ability of AP ... and mine is 3 year old AP1 hardware ...

Find a nice piece of road that favours AP - good road markings, but complicated bends, changes of speed limit, etc., and take your Vauxhall Tigra mate out for a demo

 

[Fellsteruk]

Dude, with the greatest respect, your mates vauxhall tigra is a pile of crap in comparison to your MX and I suspect your mate is a little jell...

Also you could stick auto pilot on a Corsa but you know what it’s still a Corsa and to that point you don’t buy a Tesla just because of TACC or EAP.

I ordered my MX a year ago and had it six months and I can honestly say it got better before I even took delivery and has gotten better since I got it, no vauxhall or any other car does that!

 

[sk19]

Thanks for all your comments.

I did a bit of research and found this lane assist on a Tigra on YouTube. It looks AWFUL.

It basically ping pongs from line marking to line marking like a drunk driver and eventually just crosses the line cluelessly and dangerously. Sounds similar to the Audi experience above.

A couple of things that now jump out at me from last night’s conervsation, which I’ve only just realised the significance of, is when I asked him if he gets the sense of relaxation after long drives that so many Tesla owners have reported when using the lane assist feature because you don’t have to micro steer as much. I was surprised that his answer was “no, not really.” I felt even more dejected thinking it’s just been hyped by Tesla owners. Now I’m beginning to think differently and that maybe it’s because his system is useless. That ping ponging I saw in the YouTube video would totally stress me out and I’d hardly use it as a result also.

Which leads me onto the second thing that now rings alarm bells: crucially when I asked him how much he uses it (bear in mind this is someone who regularly does 2.5-5hr drives around the country mainly on motorways) he said he hardly uses it at all and he prefers to steer. Again at the time I felt dejected thinking it’s just some gimmick hyped up by Tesla fans, btu now I see it differently. The Tesla YouTube vids I’ve seen have almost all been incredibly slick and I am just itching to use it. The Vauxhall system I wouldn’t bother to try after the demo I watched. So rather than suggesting the whole concept is a gimmick it just goes to show implementation is probably miles behind Tesla’s.

I honestly don’t know what came first Tesla’s or the competitors’ versions but I have a feeling Tesla pioneered this stuff. And as is the case with pioneering technology the pioneers are often far far ahead of copycats, who generally rustle something up quickly so they can tick the box that looks good on spec sheets but In actual fact is nowhere near the original.

I don’t know what the feature is like with other manufacturers but if Audi (far more reputable than Vauxhall) have a ping pong system then I suspect no one stands a chance.

The simple fact that Tesla has so many cameras and radars means the implementation is likely to be better. There’s also that insurance report comparing the different systems and how Tesla comes out on top (except for up hills for some reason).

I’m feeling good about my order again

 

[pjuk]

That's exactly what the TACC in the last Golf BlueMotion I had was like. Annoyed me, for an Eco Box, that it haired up behind a car and jumped on the brakes at the last moment - very unnerving for passengers too, and having lost all that momentum then was very tardy to get going after the car in front pulled over, as you describe.

Your Audi is newer than that, but it doesn't sound a lot better, but AP is certainly like night-and-day compared to the Golf's complete lack of subtlety. I'm constantly amazed by the ability of AP ... and mine is 3 year old AP1 hardware ...

I’m glad to hear that it is a huge improvement over my existing ACC. That said it’s still pretty useful tech given that I barely touched the brake pedal from a trip from North London/M25 to Braintree and back the other day. Although I’m still focussed on the road there is some kind of subconscious relief that I don’t have to keep pace or worry about stop/start in slow moving traffic. It’s also good to hear that “normal” cars are getting it now - it will hopefully make the roads a bit safer.

Slightly off topic, but my ACC refuses to come on if I’m too close to someone whilst travelling at speed - I wonder if this is limit to which the on board computer can respond to a sudden change in speed of the car in front to allow it to safely brake without hitting the car? It would be interesting to see how these ACC units fair in emergency situations vs human response times.

 

[Cripps]

I think you can continue to feel positive! I am thrilled with my Model S. You are getting:
- an incredible ticket to adventure!? You vehicle is much more than an appliance.
- Over The Air updates which is a service other manufacturers are struggling to start up. Tesla has some amazing engineers.
- a staggeringly easy to use and comprehensive charging network.

Personally I feel very supported with Autopilot. I am more relaxed driving, especially in poor conditions when autosteer really helps and I use it extensively where Tesla advises it can be used.

I am also a big fan of the camping mode. There’s lots of room to get comfortable in the back and you just set the cabin to a comfortable temperature for the night.

 

[pjuk]

I don’t know what the feature is like with other manufacturers but if Audi (far more reputable than Vauxhall) have a ping pong system then I suspect no one stands a chance.

I actually use the lane assist all the time, but treat it as an early warning system in the event of me drifting by accident or god forbid falling asleep. It does respond with the wheel vibrating and the car beeping at you. Potentially it could prevent an accident, but would never trust it to get me from A-B. It never gets in the way of regular driving and tends to only respond if you start drifting towards/over a line.

 

[WannabeOwner]

it’s still pretty useful tech given that I barely touched the brake pedal from a trip from North London/M25 to Braintree and back the other day

As I said earlier my VW Golf TACC story is old, so technology will have moved on, but it would not slow the car down, in regular moving traffic, below some threshold (I forget, but let's say 25 MPH), at that point it would just sound alarms. The alarm noise was the same for everything, so you had to look down and read the dash to figure out what the emergency condition was (remember: car is slowing down with traffic, gets to trigger point, and then for no obvious reason [to the driver] sounds an alarm and releases the brakes ...)

Tesla: In traffic: slow down with car in front even coming to a stop ... and then when car in front sets off again the Tesla does too. Even on a tight bend. And: even if the car in front is pulling onto a roundabout

But also if the car in front is half asleep and does nothing, but car in front of that slows down suddenly, then Tesla will slow down anyway

an early warning system in the event of me drifting by accident or god forbid falling asleep. It does respond with the wheel vibrating and the car beeping at you

Definitely a benefit of using AP. AP might detect something that the driver doesn't - side incursion from blind spot, for example, in that case it will move the car in lane to avoid the danger, let alone straight line braking for slowing traffic ahead. Tesla has lane departure alert (when manual driving) too, and many of the safety features are working all the time - accelerate hard at the car in front, intending to overtake, and Tesla will alert the impending straight-line collision ... that's quite fun for a passenger demo - but I think when on AP there are more things active and working to save you.

The biggest problem with AP is complacency. Mile after mile, in my case tens of thousands of miles after miles, of faultless AP driving and there is temptation to let it just get on with it. I've never had AP do something daft, but there have been fatalities where driver clearly had time to take over and sort the situation out ... but didn't. Me = one hand on wheel at all times, supervising, no exceptions.

 

[WannabeOwner]

It would be interesting to see how these ACC units fair in emergency situations vs human response times.

I've not tried "how close can I get and still not have an accident" with AP you could choose to set a decent follow-distance, and just leave AP to get on with it - apart from the car in front driving into a stationary object Tesla will have plenty of time to react and brake, and it will also judge how hard it needs to brake at the get-go, which you might not unless the car in front has emergency-braking flashing brake lights.

 

[pjuk]

If I read your post correctly you said that the Tesla will prevent you from “ramming” someone if you put your foot down and there is an impending collision? Sounds like there are a lot of avoidance systems just baked into regular driving mode

 

[sk19]

If I read your post correctly you said that the Tesla will prevent you from “ramming” someone if you put your foot down and there is an impending collision? Sounds like there are a lot of avoidance systems just baked into regular driving mode

Good question. I've had reports from a mate with a Tesla and seen online that even when not in AP the Tesla stops/moves when it needs to.

I'm not sure how true this all is because I assumed it would only be on the "lookout" when in AP but if it's always acting like big brother that sounds awesome.

 

[Dre78]

Your Tesla is hooked into a neural network whose end goal is Full Self Driving. Your electric motor is many factors more efficient than ICE. And your maintenance schedule/reliability is amazing. Welcome to the family!

Good question. I've had reports from a mate with a Tesla and seen online that even when not in AP the Tesla stops/moves when it needs to.

I'm not sure how true this all is because I assumed it would only be on the "lookout" when in AP but if it's always acting like big brother that sounds awesome.

Collision avoidance will beep and flash red on screen, but will reduce speed so you won't hit as hard. If you're pressing the accelerator, you will probably get into an accident. I'm not sure of all the specifics, but there are videos out there.

 

[Mark_T]

All cars are getting more safety features with each new model year, but don't confuse the marketing material with the utility of the features.

Some are generally quite good now, things like TACC are getting pretty common, but anything much more advanced is highly variable in usability and for the most part they don't change or fix those problems for existing cars, they just do it better next year.

This is what males Tesla better and different. Not perfect, can't change AP1 into AP2.5, but hardware aside we do get fixes and improvements in a lot of the features of our cars.

 

[Fellsteruk]

If I read your post correctly you said that the Tesla will prevent you from “ramming” someone if you put your foot down and there is an impending collision? Sounds like there are a lot of avoidance systems just baked into regular driving mode

On my MX which is Hardware 2.5 even when EAP isn’t active I often see the collision avoidance working and mostly when I’m at a stop at say a junction or roundabout, let’s say I floor it to get out behind a passing car but it’s still a little close I can feel the power is reduced momentarily until it’s clear then you have full power.

It’s a good feature and AP or not the car is super safe but all these systems are to assist not replace a driver and as mentioned above when you get too complacent accidents happen