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spectrum

Member
Supporting Member
Jun 17, 2018
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Atlanta
I'm going to call out whoever disagrees with my post with some of the stuff they've said. Let's start with @AnxietyRanger. As much as I respect and appreciate your well-thought out posts, you have made some conflicting statements about this two-pane layout in the past.

it seems we the "legacy" owners are being dragged into the brave new world, even though our screen form-factor would support the old world better

I don't think Tesla made any changes in V9 that digress from the vertical form factor. They make better use of vertical space in the controls tab, better use of climate control space, better use of music player space, maps are the same (albeit omnipresent) and I see zero horizontal or horizontally-suited UI elements in V9 for Model S/X.

Personally I have a fairly simple metric for what I find worse. If, even after time, I find that some common action that used to be simple and easy becomes hard, then I find the new design inferior

Respectable, but see what you say right after:

I also mess up selecting the correct two apps, as the window which they open to is not something seems to come naturally to me (only with effort), which used to be dead simple before 8.0 when all selected apps opened to the top window by default...

I guess V9 should have been your prayers answered then, since it's now simpler and all apps open on the bottom (instead of the top) so that the navigation (and EAP/FSD/Navigate on Autopilot controls) can remain at the top. But yet you still disagree with all my pro-V9 posts.
 
I absolutely would LOVE to do that. Could you enlighten us what email address to use for feedback? AFAICT, there is no recognized email address to use.

I actually took my 2015 over to the Tesla store just yesterday, where none of the sales staff had ever laid eyes on V9. Four sales folks followed me to my car to see it for the first time. Their jaws dropped and they shook their heads. They understood my issues and "said" they would pass them on. But they could not come up with a more formal feedback path (which is why I went there in the first place).

Gladly!
  1. Tweet Elon
  2. [email protected]
  3. [email protected]
  4. Submit contact here: Tesla
  5. In car: use voice command "bug report" for bugs
 
UI design is a trade-off - no interface will be perfect. When the UI changes, some things will be better - some things will be worse - and hopefully there's a net improvement overall.

Tesla has made interface changes before - that have met with owner resistance. AP1 owners wanted to get back the pre-AP dashboard. The V8 auto-hide app bar reduced usability by requiring an extra screen touch for each operation - and V8 initially removed the first letter scroll bar for media player lists (later restored).

User complaints after UI changes happen with any software - not just Tesla's, so it's not surprising to see some of Tesla's most vocal users expressing their frustrations about the changes.

As with previous major releases, it's likely Tesla made a few mistakes in the new release - and will correct those mistakes in subsequent releases - though it's unlikely we'll see the major UI changes reversed - probably not going to get back the fixed top/bottom windows.

It is possibly to quantify the usability of UI design by measuring how much time and how many screen interactions are required to perform typical operations, which is even more important for a UI that is used by a driver, while the vehicle is in operation. If users have typical operations that are requiring significantly more interaction (more screen touches) in V9, then please file a bug report or complaint with Tesla.

Though based on our limited use, once we've gotten used to it, V9 seems to be at least as usable as V8, with a number of improvements.
 
UI design is a trade-off - no interface will be perfect. When the UI changes, some things will be better - some things will be worse - and hopefully there's a net improvement overall.

Tesla has made interface changes before - that have met with owner resistance. AP1 owners wanted to get back the pre-AP dashboard. The V8 auto-hide app bar reduced usability by requiring an extra screen touch for each operation - and V8 initially removed the first letter scroll bar for media player lists (later restored).

User complaints after UI changes happen with any software - not just Tesla's, so it's not surprising to see some of Tesla's most vocal users expressing their frustrations about the changes.

As with previous major releases, it's likely Tesla made a few mistakes in the new release - and will correct those mistakes in subsequent releases - though it's unlikely we'll see the major UI changes reversed - probably not going to get back the fixed top/bottom windows.

It is possibly to quantify the usability of UI design by measuring how much time and how many screen interactions are required to perform typical operations, which is even more important for a UI that is used by a driver, while the vehicle is in operation. If users have typical operations that are requiring significantly more interaction (more screen touches) in V9, then please file a bug report or complaint with Tesla.

Though based on our limited use, once we've gotten used to it, V9 seems to be at least as usable as V8, with a number of improvements.
You echoed my thoughts exactly. Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts.
 
I have no problem with your opinion on V9, @spectrum. It is, after all, how you feel about the UI of your car. Obviously some love it, some hate and a spectrum in-between, as always.

My "disagree" have been mostly - and entirely in this thread - with the way you seem to label those with an opposing opinion. That is IMO uncalled for. The poll could also have used more balanced options and a more balanced title to really seek genuine opinions and not just divide us.

As much as I respect and appreciate your well-thought out posts, you have made some conflicting statements about this two-pane layout in the past.

I don't think Tesla made any changes in V9 that digress from the vertical form factor. They make better use of vertical space in the controls tab, better use of climate control space, better use of music player space, maps are the same (albeit omnipresent) and I see zero horizontal or horizontally-suited UI elements in V9 for Model S/X.

Here's where we just have to disagree. IMO the great way to make use of a vertical screen (as opposed to a horizontal screen in Model 3 and rumoured future Model S/X) with mostly horizontal content is to offer two (or more) of them at a time. Most of the apps in Model S/X still today follow a 16:9/4:3ish form-factor, which results in them being unnecessarily small and low if there is only one of them open at a time on the bottom. This remains true with V9.

Let's look at rear-view camera on Model 3 vs. Model S for example. This design works well on Model 3, but on Model S the image is low and, well, alone - especially in the driving scenario or when kept open all the time (I get it it moves up when reversing, but only if it isn't open).

Unless you really, really need the map at the same time, this is just poor use of the available space. On the Model 3 at least you get a great and big image higher up in your line of sight. (It would be nice to have two panels above each other on Model 3 too, but not quite as useful or pressing.)

model_comparison.jpg


I guess V9 should have been your prayers answered then, since it's now simpler and all apps open on the bottom (instead of the top) so that the navigation (and EAP/FSD/Navigate on Autopilot controls) can remain at the top. But yet you still disagree with all my pro-V9 posts.

Certainly V9 makes opening apps more logical than V8 in the sense that they always open in the same place, but this is simply because V8 was silly in this regard - V6 was the best. With V8 the camera opened on top (funny that), media opened in the bottom etc. weird stuff. V6 was very logical: apps always opened on the top and you moved them when you wanted to.

But V9 is not a blessing in this sense, because 1) it removes the option to open stuff on top entirely - I've liked my camera or media controls there depending on the situation - and 2) opening the apps now requires visiting the app tray. With V8 at least I could keep the app tray open all the time by not using navigation on top...

V6 had the best IC and the best MCU from an information density and logical usability standpoint, AP not withstanding. Darn it was good, even if it looked amateurish graphically. It was genius. That's what makes this so hard - Tesla had this UI stuff nailed in my opinion and just keeps making it worse - again, in my opinion of course. It is not fun, so I'm not going to pretend it is.
 
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Gladly!
  1. Tweet Elon
  2. [email protected]
  3. [email protected]
  4. Submit contact here: Tesla
  5. In car: use voice command "bug report" for bugs

1. I am not on Twitter
2. Good for reporting problems or bug reports, but that is not what I am doing
3. Not a valid address. Mail bounces back
4. This is a generic contact form. No product feedback options in the list.
5. I have found no bug, other than the design choices. I believe it is working as designed.

I would love to submit feedback. I just don't know where to send it. Apple for example, has an entire site dedicated to product feedback. As far as I can tell, Tesla does not.
 
@kavyboy

Come on, don't be negative! :)

And then:

And "Front Fog" has an icon and is right-justified text. I can tell you, at my job that wouldn't get past a developer pre-checkin show-and-tell.

And regarding getting the V9 update:

I would love to get on that blacklist! And to dismiss the current update notification

And talking about number of taps to get to apps in V9:

But now you have to go through the "launcher" to get to what used to be right there onscreen, and then the same number of taps as before. Overall, more taps, right?

This is not true. V9 has either the same number of taps or less number of taps to do everything.
  • Controls and Settings are combined. 1 less tap in V9
  • Front and Rear Climate controls are now together. 1 less tap in V9
  • Music icon always visible. 1 less tap in V9
  • App launcher opens last opened app if you swipe up on it. 1 less tap in V9
  • Map always visible, so you will never have to tap to open the map or navigate again.
 
1. I am not on Twitter
2. Good for reporting problems or bug reports, but that is not what I am doing
3. Not a valid address. Mail bounces back
4. This is a generic contact form. No product feedback options in the list.
5. I have found no bug, other than the design choices. I believe it is working as designed.

I would love to submit feedback. I just don't know where to send it. Apple for example, has an entire site dedicated to product feedback. As far as I can tell, Tesla does not.

If you are genuinely unhappy with the functionality of your Tesla with V9 compared to what it was before, then you definitely can justify emailing service and/or submitting a General complaint similar to any other problem in the car. For example, if your Tesla used to unlock when you walked up to it and now it doesn't, that is lost functionality and you can totally justify complaining to ServiceHelpNA since it is indeed a "problem".
 
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I would love to submit feedback. I just don't know where to send it. Apple for example, has an entire site dedicated to product feedback. As far as I can tell, Tesla does not.

I am a huge Tesla fan and stockholder. I leased my first one because I was a little nervous. I became so enthusiastic after my great experience with the S, that I paid cash for the X. So I am in it for the long haul. But that being said, I am not blindly accepting of what Tesla spills out as "improvements" if I do not think they are. The initial Version 9 changes do not enhance my ability to drive, and in some ways actually detract.
 
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If you are genuinely unhappy with the functionality of your Tesla with V9 compared to what it was before, then you definitely can justify emailing service and/or submitting a General complaint similar to any other problem in the car. For example, if your Tesla used to unlock when you walked up to it and now it doesn't, that is lost functionality and you can totally justify complaining to ServiceHelpNA since it is indeed a "problem".

The only problem with that is that ServiceHelpNA implies that I am expecting a fix. There is nothing they can do about design choices. I would absolutely report the lock example you offered up. But something like: "The map is always on top, which is highly distracting and dangerous to me. It did not do that before, how do I make it go away?" I don't think that is a reasonable service request.

edit: But you know, I will give the service folks a chance at it. Might be fun :)

In my case, the update has only happened to my 2015 which is in the process of going back. I have not yet been offered the update to my X. I will decline it for now.
 
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I am not a big fan of the V9 revision thus far but I suspect most complaints will get addressed in short order. However, some complaints should have been better anticipated by Tesla programmers.

My main complaint is with the seat warmers. Who would ever think it is a good idea to make the user turn on the HVAC system to gain access to menu, then have to select the toggle switch on the far left to gain access to the seat warmer diagram, click the seat warmers you want to turn on or off, then click off the HVAC system again if you don’t want HVAC on. Makes no sense. I feel like I’m going to wreck my car trying to do all that clicking at the very bottom of the screen. Feels borderline unsafe to me.