A Model S caught fire while supercharging in Norway (link in Norwegian)

[Andyw2100]

You are many times more likely to die in a fatal car accident on the way to/from the SpC!

Well aren't you just Mr. Sunshine!

 

[Model 3]

I believe the car was a CPO. I know it was purchased only a couple of days before the fire. Maybe the technician who went over the car accidentally left something in there that caused a short the first time it was plugged into a supercharger? That would be my first guess. I'd look at the service logs from when the car was prepped for CPO sale and see if anything was opened up in the charging circuitry.

... or the technician replaced the HVJB with a faulty Gen2?

... and I saw from the work order they'd changed my HVJB to gen 2.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, this was my guess, though the Gen2 unit has thermal sensing. Unless the temp rise was so fast in the front where the charge port connections are that the temp sensor in the back couldn't register it in time.

There is a TSB for replacing Gen 1 EU spec chargers with Gen 2. That would then require HVJB replacement.

All it would take is an improperly tightened fastener.

 

[Auzie]

.... You are many times more likely to die in a fatal car accident on the way to/from the SpC!

Well aren't you just Mr. Sunshine!

If you like sunshine, here's a bit more: It is certain that each one of us will die. Nothing to worry about, there's no evidence to suggest that dying is worse than living

 

[FlasherZ]

If you like sunshine, here's a bit more: It is certain that each one of us will die. Nothing to worry about, there's no evidence to suggest that dying is worse than living

Well, not *certain*... 98% of us will die at some point in our lives...

 

[jeffro01]

Out of curiosity to those who have advanced knowledge of these things, is there anything Tesla can do from a small scale fire suppression perspective? In other words, does the technology exist to put in some sort of temperature activated expandable foam that would help in these rare instances? Say the HVJB hits a specific temp range and a canister of expandable foam explodes, in conjunction with the current being cutoff, that fills the HBJB with foam thus putting out the "fire". Yeah that certainly would likely render the HVJB useless but in the 1 and 2.5 million chance...

Or am I simply proposing an unreasonable solution to a very rare problem that is likely already addressed via firmware?

Jeff

 

[David99]

Out of curiosity to those who have advanced knowledge of these things, is there anything Tesla can do from a small scale fire suppression perspective? In other words, does the technology exist to put in some sort of temperature activated expandable foam that would help in these rare instances? Say the HVJB hits a specific temp range and a canister of expandable foam explodes, in conjunction with the current being cutoff, that fills the HBJB with foam thus putting out the "fire". Yeah that certainly would likely render the HVJB useless but in the 1 and 2.5 million chance...

Or am I simply proposing an unreasonable solution to a very rare problem that is likely already addressed via firmware?

Jeff

The best thing to do is cut the power source when temperature exceeds a safe limit. That solves the problem right away. A small fire extinguisher type system is like putting a bandaid over a problem without addressing the problem. It's better to prevent a fire from starting by turning off a system that is starting to overheat before it catches on fire. As far as I understand that's what Tesla is doing with the software.

 

[Todd Burch]

Agree with David99. That's the easiest, safest, least costly, and lowest weight solution.

 

[Saghost]

Out of curiosity to those who have advanced knowledge of these things, is there anything Tesla can do from a small scale fire suppression perspective? In other words, does the technology exist to put in some sort of temperature activated expandable foam that would help in these rare instances? Say the HVJB hits a specific temp range and a canister of expandable foam explodes, in conjunction with the current being cutoff, that fills the HBJB with foam thus putting out the "fire". Yeah that certainly would likely render the HVJB useless but in the 1 and 2.5 million chance...

Or am I simply proposing an unreasonable solution to a very rare problem that is likely already addressed via firmware?

Jeff

Military aircraft systems mostly work by denying the fire oxygen, substituting an inert gas. One system I'm somewhat familiar with that could be scaled to HVJB size is pretty much an oversize car airbag inflator module without the airbag - when it goes off the propellant burns and produces an expanding gas front that will likely blow out the fire and certainly leaves the enclosed area filled with the inert combustion gasses.

However, if Tesla knows where the heat is being developed and monitors that, cutting power before it gets to fire temperatures would certainly seem wiser - it should prevent damage to the systems as well as the fire.

Even if they don't know where the power is going or have temperature sensors in all the relevant places, doing a power checksum would catch situations like this before they became critical. The car is in digital communication with the Supercharger, so the charger can pass it how much power the charger thinks it is delivering. The car is monitoring the battery pack, it knows how much power is arriving at the pack (and also how much is turning to heat in the pack and how much is being dissipated by the cooling systems, but those aren't central to this discussion.)

If the car compares those two and notices a significant discrepancy between the power the SpC thinks it is delivering and the power the battery is receiving, the car could flag the situation, report an error and disable Supercharging until it is checked (or do some sort of recycle on the systems on one or both sides first.)
Walter

 

[wdolson]

Military aircraft systems mostly work by denying the fire oxygen, substituting an inert gas. One system I'm somewhat familiar with that could be scaled to HVJB size is pretty much an oversize car airbag inflator module without the airbag - when it goes off the propellant burns and produces an expanding gas front that will likely blow out the fire and certainly leaves the enclosed area filled with the inert combustion gasses.

However, if Tesla knows where the heat is being developed and monitors that, cutting power before it gets to fire temperatures would certainly seem wiser - it should prevent damage to the systems as well as the fire.

Even if they don't know where the power is going or have temperature sensors in all the relevant places, doing a power checksum would catch situations like this before they became critical. The car is in digital communication with the Supercharger, so the charger can pass it how much power the charger thinks it is delivering. The car is monitoring the battery pack, it knows how much power is arriving at the pack (and also how much is turning to heat in the pack and how much is being dissipated by the cooling systems, but those aren't central to this discussion.)

If the car compares those two and notices a significant discrepancy between the power the SpC thinks it is delivering and the power the battery is receiving, the car could flag the situation, report an error and disable Supercharging until it is checked (or do some sort of recycle on the systems on one or both sides first.)
Walter

Commercial aircraft have those systems too. But there are some critical differences between aircraft and cars which contribute to why they aren't in cars. Unless under attack, fire is pretty rare in both vehicles. There are a lot more care fires because there are over 250 million cars on US roads alone. However aircraft have some bigger problems with fire than cars. If your car catches fire, you can usually pull over and get out pretty easily. If a plane catches fire in the air, there is no place to go except down. Aircraft also cost a lot more than cars. A cheap military plane costs a few million and an airliner can cost $100 million.

Adding fire suppression systems is worth the extra cost. Compared to the cost of the entire plane, it isn't much. But adding a fire suppression system to a car could add a few thousand to the cost of the car for a system that will probably never get used. And it it's installed, it needs to be inspected and maintained.

Overall, it's cheaper to let a few cars burn to the ground than build fire suppression systems into every car. Safety features in cars tend to focus on saving occupants and sacrificing the car.

Monitoring battery and charger heat and making adjustments is very cheap to do and helps to prevent fires in the first place. No system is perfect and it sounds like the fire in Norway was a situation that slipped through the preverbial cracks.

 

[FlasherZ]

Perhaps one of these:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

(Years ago I worked in a full-service station that had these. Nothing like a big globe of carbon tet with really thin glass to serve as a target...)

 

[MP3Mike]

Or maybe build an Elide Fire Extinguishing Ball into the area... Of course they say they are only good for 5 years without maintenance.

 

[jgs]

Adding fire suppression systems is worth the extra cost. Compared to the cost of the entire plane, it isn't much. But adding a fire suppression system to a car could add a few thousand to the cost of the car for a system that will probably never get used.

Besides cost, there is also the fact that it's almost always possible to pull your car over and walk away from it within a minute or two of noticing a fire. Try that with a plane.