A Model S owner hit 75,000 miles, still gets 93% of original range

[JRP3]

Around 150 miles per day, he's exercising that battery in a much different way than the average driver. I'm nearly at 30K miles in 16 months, but clearly using my car much differently. I'm not sure we can draw any huge conclusions about the battery degradation from this one data point with exceptional usage pattern.

I agree. His pack is spending a lot of time either discharging or charging, which means the cells have little to no time to cool down internally the way a normal car would. I'd say his results are very encouraging, especially since he probably has less actual capacity loss than is being shown.

 

[FlasherZ]

If you haven't seen the video in this thread already (it's a long 75 minute watch, but good if you're curious about how Li-Ion batteries are studied and their lifetimes projected), watch it:

Why do Li-ion Batteries die? And how to improve the situation?

 

[Electroman]

No one in the TM forum blog has asked him a question on how much he saved driving 75K miles when compared to say a 'Autobahn capable' BMW ?

 

[Eberhard]

Compared to the 156.000km or nearly 100.000miles with my Roadster, i still have 86% or only 14% loss.

best

Eberhard

 

[Electroman]

Back of the napkin calculation with 3 miles/kWh, 12c per kWh for Model S, and 20 miles/ gallon, $4 per gallon gives :

At 75K miles just on fuel alone:

Model S : $3000
'Autobahn capable' BMW: $15000
'I will just drive the Prius': $7500

If you take into account how much a BMW would have cost in maintenance then the equation becomes even more skewed.

 

[roblab]

20 miles lost after 75k that doesn't sound good to me. Just my opinion

This is less than a 10% loss. Are you really thinking this is excessive, or just being wishful?

It was my understanding that Tesla expected a <30% loss in 8 years. That's the replacement point, where a battery has lost 30% of its charge.

My car was guaranteed for 8 years unlimited mileage, so I am planning on having less than 200 miles of range at that time, or a loss of about 80 miles. The degradation curve is tested to be a larger ramp down in the first few years, and then leveling off for the rest. 20 miles loss at 75,000 sounds pretty good, unless you think somehow that the battery will not degrade. But I suppose there are a lot of people who think that it should be like new in 8 years. Human nature.

My car has about 43,000 mi on it in a year and a half, and I am at about 3% degradation: that's about 6 miles lost. Hopefully in another 6 years or so, we will have lots more superchargers, or availability of bigger and stronger batteries.

 

[rlang59]

This is less than a 10% loss. Are you really thinking this is excessive, or just being wishful?

It was my understanding that Tesla expected a <30% loss in 8 years. That's the replacement point, where a battery has lost 30% of its charge.

My car was guaranteed for 8 years unlimited mileage, so I am planning on having less than 200 miles of range at that time, or a loss of about 80 miles. The degradation curve is tested to be a larger ramp down in the first few years, and then leveling off for the rest. 20 miles loss at 75,000 sounds pretty good, unless you think somehow that the battery will not degrade. But I suppose there are a lot of people who think that it should be like new in 8 years. Human nature.

My car has about 43,000 mi on it in a year and a half, and I am at about 3% degradation: that's about 6 miles lost. Hopefully in another 6 years or so, we will have lots more superchargers, or availability of bigger and stronger batteries.

There is no such official number for replacement. All official warranty papers say degradation is not covered.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Another way to think about this is after 150,000 miles on your battery you'll still be able to go 225 miles on a charge.

Think about how many years it will be before you hit that many miles. How many Superchargers do you think there will be by that point? How many miles apart do you think they'll be?

 

[roblab]

There is no such official number for replacement. All official warranty papers say degradation is not covered.

True, not *official*. But from several posts and replies by Tesla, it is *unofficial* I suppose: For example, from the Tesla forum a year ago:

"dtesla | JUNE 3, 2013
I e-mailed [email protected] to find out when a % loss of range becomes a warranty issue. They replied that if my battery drops below 70% TM would replace it."

And there are other similar quotes.

Perhaps someone should try to get this in writing.

 

[darthvdr]

I am wondering how often he uses the supercharging stations.

 

[rlang59]

True, not *official*. But from several posts and replies by Tesla, it is *unofficial* I suppose: For example, from the Tesla forum a year ago:

"dtesla | JUNE 3, 2013
I e-mailed [email protected] to find out when a % loss of range becomes a warranty issue. They replied that if my battery drops below 70% TM would replace it."

And there are other similar quotes.

Perhaps someone should try to get this in writing.

As far as I'm concerned it is not something I am going to count on unless it is in the official battery warranty.

 

[Dave EV]

My battery is pushing 1.5 years old and 8,000 miles (low mileage daily driver) and I've seen all of 2 miles of degredation.

Calendar degredation only occurs under high SOC coupled with high temperature. My car sees neither of those, hence no caldendar degredation.

Lithium batteries suffer from capacity loss over time, whether you think so or not. The question is how significant are those losses and higher temperatures and higher average SOC does accelerate the rate of capacity loss.

Arrhenius' Equation applies to the rate of capacity loss over time which approximates for every 10C rise in temperature there is a doubling in rate of capacity loss.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

What drees said. There's a NREL paper on capacity loss, and a really good video on why batteries loose capacity someplace. The equation the author's used in the study for capacity loss was the greater of cycling/calendar life losses.

Cycling losses depend on depth of discharge and operating temperatures, and calendar losses depend on the average state of charge and operating temperatures. The higher the temp of the pack, greater the depth of discharge, and higher the soc is, on average, the more battery degradation an owner will see.

Battery capacity losses also aren't usually consistent through the entire range. They tend to degrade modestly up to some point, and at some point the rate of degradation usually increases substantially.

 

[JRP3]

As we saw in the video from professor Dahn degradation has a lot to do with electrolyte additives as well, and a small percentage of specific additives can make a dramatic difference in the mechanisms that affect capacity loss, especially heat related issues.

 

[KJD]

My 2012 LEAF is down 15% and it only has 20,000 miles on it. I would say only being down 7% and over 75,000 miles is very impressive.

I guess in this case you get what you pay for right ?

 

[Electroman]

Not so fast.

Your Leaf has seen 3 summers and has been driven for 36+ months. OPs Tesla considerably much less. That makes a difference.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My 2011 LEAF was down 15% at 24,000 miles in one year.

 

[Electroman]

I am wondering if something is different in 2014s. 3 months, 5500 miles and it hasn't lost a GID at full charge. I am doing 100% charges twice a day.

Of course we all know heat is the main killer and we will see where I am at the end of this Dallas summer in Sep.

 

[lloyds]

I am wondering if something is different in 2014s. 3 months, 5500 miles and it hasn't lost a GID at full charge. I am doing 100% charges twice a day.

Of course we all know heat is the main killer and we will see where I am at the end of this Dallas summer in Sep.

:-o Holy. twice in a day is a lot!

 

[russman]

Interesting, he charges to 90% SOC and not the 4.0v 75%. Thoughts?