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A newbie screws things up

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by EVChris, May 16, 2018.

  1. EVChris

    EVChris Member

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    I just picked up my S85 CPO/Used from Fremont Delivery yesterday. So I'm the definition of a newbie and newbies screw things up.

    After driving around in a parking lot for a bit, familiarizing myself with the car, I headed up Mount Hamilton. When I got done with that I had a little time to kill before I needed to be somewhere and I headed over to the Computer History Museum Supercharger.

    While I was driving there, I realized that I didn't know how the Supercharger worked but I thought that the first thing I'd try, before even reading the manual, is what I'd call The Right Way Of Doing Things. Open the chargeport and plug in. Bingo, that worked. Awesome.

    So I charged for awhile and my appointment neared so I needed to end the charging station. The screen had a button that said Stop Charging. Great. I pushed that. I stepped out of the vehicle and grasped the handle. Didn't budge. I pressed the button. Didn't budge but it did start charging again (light went green). I tried several times and several variations. Clearly I was screwing up and getting frustrated in the process.

    After awhile, I called support and they had me hold the fob close to the charge port and press the trunk key. Eventually, the handle released. I really don't know if what they said was correct but it worked and I was on my way.

    Suggestion: when I say Stop Charging, the Tesla should of course, Stop Charging. It should also unlock the chargeport and then remain unlocked and uncharging. That way I can step out, unplug and go. If I really want to restart charging then I'd have to unplug and plug in again, or maybe hit a Restart Charging button. But I should't have to do anything (indeed I shouldn't be able to do anything) from the handle except plugin and unplug. As with J1772, the button on the handle is entirely unnecessary.

    Start Charging:
    open chargeport and plugin​

    End Charging:
    press Stop Charging button and unplug​

    This is so simple that basically, even I can't screw it up. It is what I'd call The Right Way Of Doing Things.
     
  2. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    You don’t need to press any icons on the screen. To start charging, press the button on the handke, wait for the charge port to open, and plug in. To stop charging, press the button on the handle, wait a second for the light to turn white, and pull out the handle. It couldn’t be any simpler. As you would say, it’s the right way of doing things.

    Oh, and RTFM.
     
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  3. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    The Tesla port locks the connector, the handle button needs to be pressed and held to release the lock. J1772 connectors do not lock to the car nor to the adapter (but the J1772 adapter does lock to the car).
    stopCharging.PNG
     
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  4. idoco

    idoco Member

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    If your car is locked while charging the handle can't be removed. It will turn blue then green and start charging again if you push the button and try to remove it. Don't know if you locked your car again before trying to remove the handle.
     
  5. EVChris

    EVChris Member

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    Yes, I don't need to press any icons on the screen. But if I do press Stop Charging on the screen inside the car then it should and does stop charging. It should also unlock the handle without any further ado because it's pretty obvious at that point that I have places to go. Done and done.
     
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  6. kirkbauer

    kirkbauer Member

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    If it's any consolation, I have had my Model S for nearly 3 years and had something similar happen to me a few months ago. I don't supercharge often, but I have 20 or 30 times. The last time I for the life of me couldn't get the supercharger to disconnect. I called Tesla and of course then it worked.
     
  7. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Locked is the default state mechanically, the vehicle has to power the release mechanism in order for the handle to be removed. If you just came from inside the car and the door is open and/or has not auto locked: all you need to do is push the button on the handle you are removing. Other than being annoying once, is it really an issue?
     
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  8. EVChris

    EVChris Member

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    #8 EVChris, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    I did push the button. I really did. But clearly I didn't push the button the Right Way because it stayed locked.
    I can't think of a reason why after I press Stop Charging from inside the vehicle that it wouldn't/shouldn't also unlock the handle.

    According to the documentation quoted above, it is supposed to work this way. Stop Charging shoulSo there is a 1% chance that this isn't pilot error and rather a problem with my chargeport. I have a service scheduled for an LTE upgrade next week and I'll bring it up with them.

    Thinking about it a little, the button is there for when you walk up to your car in the morning and want to unplug.
     
  9. ucmndd

    ucmndd Active Member

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    Did you push and HOLD the button down? That's the Right Way, per the manual.
     
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  10. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    #10 HankLloydRight, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    The difference between plugging it in is that when you open the charge port door, the charge port unlatches and can accept the handle. That's it. No contactors have to open or close to allow that operation. Also, the locked state of the car doesn't matter -- anyone can plug in a car to a supercharger without the owner being there or the car being unlocked (I just tested this, and it works).

    But to end the charging session, first, the car has to be unlocked, so people can't just pull the cable out when you're not there. So either the car has to recognize your fob is in proximity, or you have to double tap the fob to unlock (or I guess tap the handles). Then you have to hold the button to start the process of stopping the charge, which includes opening the contactors and releasing the charge port latch. So there's just a lot more involved in pulling the plug than inserting it. So I don't think this is a UI fail, it's just what's necessary given the parameters.

    Or as The Hooters say in 'Blood from a Stone'--- 'You can put it in, but you can't get it out.'
     
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  11. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    #11 HankLloydRight, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    I don't agree.. there can be many reasons that I want to stop charging, but leave the handle fully engaged and able to start charging again without re-inserting the handle. Or if I 'stop charging' using the app, I just want the car to stop charging, I might not want it to unlock the handle for removal (I might not be there or even nearby). In this case, the car is doing exactly what you're asking it to do, and nothing more.
     
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  12. EVChris

    EVChris Member

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    #12 EVChris, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    I think the documentation quoted above disagrees. It says:

    Press and hold the button on a Tesla connector to release the latch. You can also touch Stop Charging on the Charging Screen.

    I’m reading that as two choices. Hitting Stop Charging should also release the latch. I had a similar error at the Fremont SC and so I’m leaning towards a chargeport problem and away from software or pilot error.
     
  13. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Take a look at these three videos I shot tonight.

    The first one shows the car currently charging. I then go to the touchscreen and touch "Stop charging". It stops charging. The car is unlocked, obviously, my key fob in my pocket, but yet the charge port ring is blue (locked) and I can not pull out or release the charging handle until I press the wand button to unlock the wand and turn the charge port ring white (unlocked).



    The second video shows the car currently charging again from the touchscreen. I press 'stop charging' and it stops charging, but again, does not release the wand (charge port stays blue). I can start and stop charging as many times as I want, in the car, or remotely from the app, while the wand stays firmly locked in the charge port. Only until I click "Unlock" does the port unlock (as expected), but then notice I can then no longer start charging again (locally or remotely) until I remove the now unlocked wand and replace it, or just press the wand button and release... which is the third video:



    The third video shows me stopping charging from the touchscreen, it stops charging, then I go and simply press the wand button once and let go. The charge ring goes blue->white->blue->green and immediately starts charging again.



    I think this is consistent with what you experienced and there are no faults. What I guess you missed was the "Unlock" button that pops up immediately upon stopping charging, which gives you the option to unlock the port.

    And when "Unlock" is pressed, the wand is unlocked, the charge port ring is white, and you can just pull it out and go.

    Or you can "press and hold" the wand button, which will make it go through the cycle and unlock, but it's not immediate.
     
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  14. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    Chargepoint might indeed be the source of the issue. With my Roadster I can hit Stop Charging on the car's display panel, and charging will stop for a moment, then start up again. Depends on the charger brand - the Clipper Creek HCS-40 model, and at least one of the Tesla Destination chargers will do this. Others stop and stay stopped. When it doesn't stop, I have to command it to do so by pushing the button on the charge cable, or at the charger itself.

    A similar issue also occurs at the end of normal charging, when the car is full. It can end up repeatedly executing short (few seconds) charging cycles over and over again for hours, which is not good for either the car or charger. That behavior may be a Roadster-specific issue (the car pre-dates all of the charging infrastructure we use today), but be aware of the possibility (i.e. watch it complete normally once, just to be sure).
     
  15. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Since you're a new owner, I wanted to elaborate on this concept. The car should do exactly what I tell it to do, and nothing more.

    Stop charging == Stop charging
    Unlock == Unlock

    In your statement above, you are assuming that everytime every driver hits 'stops charging' they are also in close proximity to the car and departing immediately. But there are many many use cases where that is not the case, and having the car stop charging and unlocking as one action would be a serious hindrance to the convenience of remote charging control as it is now implemented.

    There have been many times that I am preparing to leave on a long trip the following day. Say the car is at 50% or lower SOC. During the day, I'll plug my car in the garage and immediately 'stop charging' but leave the wand locked. Then sometime later in the evening, I'll remotely start charging up to 90% or maybe 95% and then 'stop charging' (either manually or via the pre-set charging limit) -- as I don't want to charge to 100% and leave it sit overnight at that SOC which could degrade the battery. In the morning when I wake up, I'll (remotely) start charging once again to try and time it so the battery is at 100% and balanced pretty close to my time of departure, so the time spent at 100% is minimized. If the charge port always 'unlocked' every time I 'stopped charging' (as you assert), I'd then have to run down to the garage every time and re-insert the charging cable to start charging again. That would be very, very annoying and certainly not the The Right Way Of Doing Things.

    There are also cases where people (not me) leave their car plugged in/locked overnight, but use remote conditioning (using shore power) to heat or cool the car in advance of departing. If 'stop charging' also unlocked the charge port, this would not be possible without going to the car and re-inserting the charge cable an hour or more before planned departure. And if someone forgets to do that and their car is not pre-conditioned, that could have serious effects on range and comfort when they start their trip.

    Once you get to know how it works, and why, you'll realize that there are no faults here, and the system is working as designed The Right Way. :)

    Congrats on your new car.
     
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  16. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    Also one maybe informative thing: when you had pressed the button on the screen to stop charging and then went to pull the handle, and you said the port light went green again, that might not have been charging. If your door was open and the air conditioner on, the car will pull energy from an outside source if it is plugged in to run heat and air conditioning. So with some current still flowing, you do need to press that button on the handle to interrupt that as well.

    I'll grant that the wording you quoted is a little bit unclear, but this is how the cars have always worked and should work.

    Also, just o_O that the thread is titled "A newbie screws things up", but is going to every length to place the blame as a deficiency or defect of the car.
     
  17. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    @EVChris -- have you tried to replicate the unplugging problems you encountered?

    Now with this additional information, is the charge port working as designed/expected, or is it still in an unexpected locking/fault mode?
     
  18. EVChris

    EVChris Member

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    #18 EVChris, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
    Yes, to me it seems to be a problem with my particular chargeport and not pilot error.
    I thought it was a 95% chance of pilot error before and now I'm at 5% chance.
    It just seems very unpredictable but luckily I can eventually get it off.
    I have a Service scheduled and I've mentioned the chargeport.

    Also at the Fremont supercharger, one of the bays won't charge my S. Happened twice. So I moved to the next bay and later an X pulled in. I wasn't a supercharger problem since that car charged without a problem. Also, I was smelling an acrid electrical smell. Hopefully the charging bay is in the history and Service will be able to look at that.

    I still think a button/preference for stop+unlock would be a good idea but that is a separate matter.
     
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  19. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    So you're saying pressing-and-holding the button doesn't unlock the charge port?

    What color is the charge ring?
     
  20. EVChris

    EVChris Member

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    I hit Stop Charging. I exited the vehicle and the light was blue. I grasped the handle and pulled but it didn't move.
    I pressed the button and it went green. At this point I fumbled through a bunch of variations such as unlocking
    the charge port from my phone, pressing the trunk button, pressing Stop Charging again. Variations.
    It eventually unplugged.

    Again, I just picked this S85 up on Tuesday. It is low miles. It went through a mechanical inspection.
    It was likely charged by Tesla to full range before they delivered the car.
    It looks like I have some problems to work through.
     

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