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A Pitch for Autopilot Driver Training

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by Contributor, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Contributor

    Contributor New Member

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    Tesla has been coming in for some criticism of late, with particular regard to the Autopilot system. In at least three cases this year, a Tesla model has buried itself into a stopped emergency vehicle. The problem mainly stems from the fact that the engineers (of any self-driving/autonomous vehicle) have to code the system to...
    READ FULL ARTICLE
     
  2. atppilot

    atppilot Member

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    I have always thought that training videos on the use of the autopilot may be very useful. Remember, not all drivers are built the same. I watched a YouTube video of a marginal driver trying autopilot for the first time - scared me. Combine that with a marginal aptitude and just "bad driver" syndrome, you can see how things could happen. People can choke and freeze when unpredictable things happen - knowing what to do and how to react is not natural for all. Jerking the wheel when assisting and the such can be disastrous.
     
  3. Marc0443

    Marc0443 New Member

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  4. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

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    Remember, statistically 1/2 of all drivers are below average. (Applies to guys too :)

    Early adopters took it on themselves to figure out the Autopilot, but now that the cars have gone mainstream a training period might be a great idea. New customers expect the systems to be self explanatory, but perhaps some formalized training could go a long way to getting everybody on the same page. They could understand the strengths and weakness inherent in these systems. At least quit crawling into the back seat, reading a book, while speeding down the highway.
     
  5. Marc0443

    Marc0443 New Member

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    Autopilot is an unfinished software/hardware system and work in progress. It isn't perfect and does take some getting used to. My wife for example never uses it. I think Autopilot training would be very useful to all Tesla drivers.

    As for me, I find Autopilot useful but I always keep both hands on the wheel. I know that currently it is lane following just using the markings on the road and that is sometimes problematic. I also feel that it doesn't slow up enough before taking sharp turns so I manually slow the speed myself.

    I consider giving Autopilot control about the same as giving a student driver control. I'm always ready to take control if the situation warrants.

    That having been said, Autopilot will eventually become better and better and it will become Autonomous. At that point it would be completely trustworthy. I hope that day comes very soon.
     
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  6. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

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    You're speaking my language - Training.

    Sorry, I can't "read full article" maybe I have to contribute $. It just sends me back to the main page with the article listed on the right - where I started.
     
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  7. Marc0443

    Marc0443 New Member

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    I have same problem. The link must be incorrect.
     
  8. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

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    Also, just curious, why this article was posted in the right hand column on the main page? Is that TMC choice stories? You have to pay to post there?

    Thanks,
    John
     
  9. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    #9 SkagitDoug, Jul 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    I trophied at two Parsche Parades in the mid-80s, and Tesla's Autopilot system disgusts me!

    So, what qualifies YOU to describe other drivers as "marginal"?
     
  10. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    Maybe someone was in such a rush to get the story to market -- like the Model 3 -- that quality control was of not importance....
     
  11. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    The one serious complaint I have is that regardless of whether following distance is set at "1" or at "7" the car doesn't seem to look too far ahead and ease off the throttle when traffic slows a hundred yards or so ahead, the way I do; it waits until it's at the chosen following distance and then applies the brakes hard enough to endanger me and anyone who might be following closely....
     
  12. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

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    What's it going to take to change your name from M3Reservation to M3-Owner?
     
  13. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

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    It's looking further ahead than you think. Someone posted a video of a rollover SUV accident 2 vehicles ahead. You can clearly see the Tesla responding before the car in front hit the brakes. In some situations it does better than me, other times I can blow it away and take over. Together we make a great team.
     
  14. ferdboyce

    ferdboyce Member

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    What is "auto-pilot" after all. In an airplane, "level 1" autopilot keeps the wings level in flight, and, in many cases, maintains the existing altitude. At the next level, the aircraft will track an airway, and make appropriate turns as required. Even the most sophisticated autopilots, that may be able to fully land the airplane, still require the pilot to take the controls to taxi the craft to the appropriate "gate" or terminal location.

    Asking Tesla's - or any car manufacturer's "autopilot" - in every circumstance, to be smarter or more capable than an average driver, borders on ridiculous. That said, if a working autopilot in a car can be even a few statistical percentage points better than a typical driver, in a typical situation, that autopilot can be said to be (at least a little bit) safer. And at each step of development, the autopilot will learn and be better, while our typical driver will not (that's why we call him "typical" - N'est pas?)
     
  15. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    If I knew how to change my username I would, thanks!
     
  16. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    Okay, but my car still isn't processing what you indicate it's seeing, because there's no particular reason to use the brakes (And, by the way, why can a Tesla not free-wheel when the accelerator pedal is lifted?) when simply easing off the accelerator would provide much smoother traffic-flow on the roads.

    Studies show what causes a lot of extended back-up is use of the brakes. If people would just ease off the throttle, traffic would continue to flow unabated, if a little slower..
     
  17. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

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    At times, I agree. When not on cruise or EAP, I tend to find that spot where there's little to no green recharge line (below speed indicator) to coast, but I would also like a way to coast more easily as well. EAP or cruise is very wasteful in traffic this way... until cars start communicating anyway which is the plan eventually. Many people like to use the throttle pedal only as is so they don't have to move their foot. But why not an option.

    For now, a solution might be to add a freewheel setting that would use the Brake Pedal as Motor Regen first then Brake pads with more foot pressure when regen is maxed out, in that order. I wonder. The point is to save energy, so it satisfies that part. Not sure if the hardware would allow this and guessing the brake is a physical thing and a safety requirement should the car die.

    Keep in mind, if a rear-end is about to occur, the pressing the brake pedal will override automatic braking. Challenging puzzle actually... must be a way. Maybe only override emergency braking when you are in the real braking range of the pedal but not regen. So maybe they don't want your foot on the brake for this safety reason...

    You may already know this... you can reduce that drag effect under Driving - Regenerative Braking - Low. More interesting is that if you charge the car to maximum, it will actually freewheel because it won't overcharge a full battery. And boy does this thing coast!

    So curious, why not use EAP or Cruise?
     
  18. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    Thanks, the task in implementing all the thoughts going through one's mind when driving is overwhelming, and takes time for it all to become intuitive. We are processing so many thoughts it's no wonder the coding for Autopilot misses sometimes. Thinking back to when we all first started driving, it took time for it all to become a cohesive effort, for all of us.

    Thanks for reminding me!

    And, I'll try to remember to disable AP and EAP in the settings, thanks! (I live in a somewhat rural county, and the car's larger than anything I've driven in 45 years, so I'm less than comfortable with its size.

    Thanks for your thoughts, SOULPEDL!
     
  19. SOULPEDL

    SOULPEDL Member

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    Thanks for the thanks! In this world, we sometimes get a thumbs up or a click, but nobody actually says thanks anymore. You just made this personal. Originally, as a Canadian, we did this on occasion. Feelings are so underrated. Anytime I can help, let me know.

    I still don't know what the article on top was about other than the title. I'm guessing that "Training" in the title caught your attention. It's what I did as an Engineer in Manufacturing at Intel for 23 yrs, including simulators. This system begs of that approach but most live in a world of common user interface design and as long as you don't veer off too far, then folks figure things out and they just let the user base find the errors. We've come accustomed to the 80% solution, only with a vehicle and lives at stake, I'm not so sure about this approach and I think it's why we have needless accidents. Most from people assuming things work but don't know how they work.

    You are so correct about people forgetting how much time it took for us to learn how to drive. Worse is trying to unlearn how to drive. I wrote about it here and you might want to consider the risks I pointed out there. R and D vs Hold - Dangerous! Someone will eventually get hurt or damage something, yet only 1 or 2 people agreed. It's the unlearning part that's most complex.

    Anyway, if I ever get through this Beta phase of SoulPedal and actually launch this product, I'll put some real training to work on Automated Driving. It's pretty clear Tesla and this crowd don't see the value. I received a 10 minute overview of the controls before they handed me the keycards. Are you kidding me!!! And I'm a high-tech guy.

    Best wishes on your travels.
    John
     
  20. SkagitDoug

    SkagitDoug Member

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    #20 SkagitDoug, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    John,

    I'm a retired mechanical engineer, and I spent most of my career working for a major aircraft manufacturer. I terribly miss the exchange of technical thoughts and queries.

    As an engineer you know nothing improves until the existing status is questioned...

    I hope you're enjoying the humor our president offers you, as our nextdoor neighbor!
    (I've got my 'Justin for President!' t-shirt!)

    And if you ever want to sponsor an immigrant, please think of me, thanks!

    Have fun,

    Doug in Burlington, Wash., USA
     

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