A Public Letter to Mr. Musk and Tesla For The Sake Of All Tesla Driver's Safety

[swengl]

I live in an area with quite a few hills and what I've noticed is that at the crest of some of the steeper hills (where it is difficult to see over the crest or there is a curve in the road), AP tends to see one painted line and then the other and the car effectively wobbles between the lines (as AP picks them up). With that said, I know with some confidence when this scenario will occur and I am ready to take over from AP.

Does anyone know if there's a way to check to see how far your've gone on AP? I use it routinely on business trips (which tend to involve a lot of interstate driving) and it would be interesting to see exactly how much assistance AP has provided since the update that launched it.

The AP system is definitely improving, but I agree: stay vigilant. There are situations that you cannot expect AP to perform flawlessly (yet), but, in my opinion, it is exciting to be part of the data gathering/learning process that will eventually lead to a fully autonomous solution.

 

[kurdakov]

About 3 weeks ago, my P90DL did almost an identical manoeuvre as described in OP here... driving along (I was on a divided highway, median in the middle, 2 lanes going each direction, center lines and stripes on the sides, bright, sunny day around noon, etc... it was perfect Autopilot conditions.), my car crossed a 6 foot section of replaced road that had no lines and suddenly veered right straight into traffic cones, knocking my passenger side mirror loose. As soon as the car started veering right I jerked the wheel to the left, but it was so sudden and unexpected that the car struck one of the cones before I could pull it back.

to deal with such a situation autopilot needs somehow to lay 'virtual lanes', so second camera would be helpful here ex to recognize width of road and 'divide it' as it would learn from previous markings ( I don't know enough on radar capabilities - maybe it can do this job too ) . There were info, that Tesla is about to install second camera for autopilot 2.0 - so it looks like it is their solution for this particular problem.

Still in case there is a known problem with a common situation and a possible technical solution lies outside current hardware then Tesla name 'autopilot' for current autosteer looks somewhat stretched. In case of future temporal smoothing for radar which Tesla mentioned sometime ago can solve this, then at least this particular problem should be clearly mentioned somewhere in manual ( or be presented on screen ) for current generation of software.

 

[msnow]

Reading this - I'm here because of Pang's post - is disturbing. Because:
1. Racism - too many posts talking about Pang's possible lack of English acumen - down to not being able to 'understand the manuals'
2. Victim blaming - Pang's case, and other Tesla crashes, seems most Tesla fans are blaming the driver in 'Autopilot' cases
3. Don't report - as in the case of Naonak above - Tesla fans would rather not report incidents than to see Tesla admit to and correct mistakes

The initial lack of rationale seen after the major Autopilot fatality, as seen in people saying 'its just one fatality', has continued. One fatality for a company that makes less than 100,000 cars a year is too many. Failing to see a large truck in broad daylight and crashing under it is a material event with massive consequences.

I was the dude telling people about Tesla and Elon Musk for the past 2-3 years over drinks, parties, meetings, etc. Now, there's a lot about this company and its followers that's disturbing.

First, I should point out that these are your first posts on any topic here. That raises red flags for us on TMC. Second there were two or three of us who a) pointed out the inappropriateness of the "foreign language" comments and b) thought it was good that this was reported to Tesla. Note: the poster, unlike you, is a regular contributor here and has credibility.

 

[sillydriver]

... Anyway, i think the best thing to do is for Naonak to post the video so we can all see what happened and judge for ourselves whether the sudden change in direction could have been anticipated and prevented somehow.

I also hope Naonak chooses to post the video. The fact that there were traffic cones nearby for him to hit suggests there was something out of the ordinary about the set-up of the road, or at least its appearance, and it would be interesting to see what it was.

 

[Chopr147]

Suggesting the poster is not fluent in English is now considered racism? That word has been so watered down as to not mean anything anymore. The posters original letter has to be read a couple of times and then you must read between the lines just to get a sense of what he intends to say. I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing the ones saying they never take their hands off the wheel. But in this case it appears he let the car drive itself on a very dangerous road and at night. Tesla has made it clear this is not what AP is for.

 

[Max*]

Or baby carriages?

What would lined up baby carriages be doing in the middle of the highway?

 

[Max*]

my car crossed a 6 foot section of replaced road that had no lines

Was there a car in front of you? If not, it's odd that AP would swerve hard right, but at the same time, it has nothing to follow (no lanes, no car).

Post the video.

 

[GKwey]

What Mr. Pang wants to achieve with his open letter? He clearly says he wants open discussion with Tesla or Elon Musk himself any time any where. Why not make it happen: can someone from Tesla invite Mr. Pang to TMC Connect 2016 to have a public forum there? Let's have a face to face open discussion in person there. If he does not show up then we know he knows he is not on solid ground with his claims; in stead just a desperate cry on his loss in Montana.

 

[Max*]

What Mr. Pang wants to achieve with his open letter? He clearly says he wants open discussion with Tesla or Elon Musk himself any time any where. Why not make it happen: can someone from Tesla invite Mr. Pang to TMC Connect 2016 to have a public forum there? Let's have a face to face open discussion in person there. If he does not show up then we know he knows he is not on solid ground with his claims; in stead just a desperate cry on his loss in Montana.

Imagine if every person called out Tesla/EM for something, and Tesla/EM would take the time to talk to them? Imagine how delayed the Model 3 would be!

 

[bonnie]

What Mr. Pang wants to achieve with his open letter? He clearly says he wants open discussion with Tesla or Elon Musk himself any time any where. Why not make it happen: can someone from Tesla invite Mr. Pang to TMC Connect 2016 to have a public forum there? Let's have a face to face open discussion in person there. If he does not show up then we know he knows he is not on solid ground with his claims; in stead just a desperate cry on his loss in Montana.

The TMC Connect conference is independent of Tesla.

 

[msnow]

Suggesting the poster is not fluent in English is now considered racism? That word has been so watered down as to not mean anything anymore. The posters original letter has to be read a couple of times and then you must read between the lines just to get a sense of what he intends to say. I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing the ones saying they never take their hands off the wheel. But in this case it appears he let the car drive itself on a very dangerous road and at night. Tesla has made it clear this is not what AP is for.

To criticize or make fun of someone for using the wrong word such as "engine" instead of "motor" when English is not their first language is inappropriate. Without further evidence I wouldn't call it racism though.
What do you mean by "I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing the ones saying they never take their hands off the wheel"?

 

[bhzmark]

Thank you for posting one point on one out of three issues raised, with a vague defence of the said point, which I will in turn defend by saying there's no verifiable proof that he was not English-proficient and there's a public letter that he wrote in good English in this very forum. Thank you for your insight.

And you, first time poster, transparently desperate short seller, addressed not a single one of the substantive points made in this thread which appropriately allocate blame based on evidence to date, primarily on the negligent and ignorant actions and inactions of the op driver.

And the incident with the traffic cones is obvious driver error too. In constructio zones and areas with traffic cones, autosteer is contraindicated.

Take the wheel and steer yourself through all construction zones and areas with traffic cones or other uncertain lane markings. That is so obvious.

 

[Electroman]

I will tell why there is so much of derision and ridicule here.

AP behaved exactly like how it is supposed to in those situations. It is the kind of conditions where you shouldn't be using AP at all, or be very very watchful to the extent it is not worth driving with AP at all on those stretches.

Okay, you made a mistake of using a very powerful feature incorrectly - and that too after driving 600 miles perfectly, which is plenty of time to learn how AP works - but then spin a web around the incident to somehow blame Tesla. Calling the drivers, Tesla's lab-rats is highly insulting to thousands of Tesla owners who use it very effectively and enjoy it everyday. This is the best to have happened to me in a very long time in reducing my daily stress (as I commute over 2 hours round trip everyday).

To see folks like Pang mis-use it, blame it on Tesla, and calling for disabling it is a direct intrusion into the quality of my life.

Hence the derision, ridicule and to some extent anger. The tone of this thread is not just directed at Pang alone, but to all those S drivers out there who use it inappropriately and then blame Tesla

 

[Max*]

after driving 600 miles perfectly, which is plenty of time to learn how AP works

That's not necessarily so. In 600 miles of perfect highway driving, you would think AP is flawless. Then you take it on a backroad, and whoops.

This is the reason I tested the limits of AP when it came out. Two lane windy roads, hills, crests, poor lane markings, city driving, etc. People here complained that I'm (well slightly me, and more so the tons of people making videos) using AP in an incorrect fashion, and that I should stop or we'd all lose AP. I thought, how else would I know the limits of the technology?

That's not to say, that now that I do know some of it's limits, I'd never get into an accident. Of course it's possible for me to screw up and still get into an accident with AP engaged, but at least now I'm better aware as to the limits.

 

[kurdakov]

An interesting interface suggestion here - to have three lights for autopilot info panel Overcoming Bias : Regulating Self-Driving Cars - such that autopilot suggests to driver when it is absolutely ok to use it, then if it sees problems - show yellow light, red light will inform that driver should really take control on himself ( not just warning to keep hands on wheel )

 

[RogerHScott]

To criticize or make fun of someone for using the wrong word such as "engine" instead of "motor" when English is not their first language is inappropriate.

I thought the very question of whether the OP's native language was English or not was in dispute? And here you are assuming it as
fact? Making fun (in other than a goodnatured way) is always inappropriate, regardless of the specifics, but criticizing language use
when it materially affects what is being said is legitimate. That said, most of the specifics cited above from the OP's letter are nothing
more than nits that any reasonable person can read right through with zero chance of misunderstanding.

 

[RogerHScott]

red light will inform that driver should really take control on himself ( not just warning to keep hands on wheel )

You've clearly never gotten the BEEP-BEEP-BEEP Take immediate control!
I guarantee you that will wake you from your nap and ensure a tight grip on the wheel (as well as other anatomical tightness ).

 

[Topher]

it was perfect Autopilot conditions.), my car crossed a 6 foot section of replaced road that had no lines and suddenly veered right straight into traffic cones,

It wasn't perfect conditions if there traffic cones and places with no lines.

I've been hesitant to post the video

Post the video! Without it your credibility will suffer. Now that you have 'gone public', you should provide all the evidence you have. If for no other reason, I want to see the monster traffic cones they grow around you, that can take out a side mirror.

I have submitted it to Tesla, but their response has been less than desirable. It's been basically non-existent beyond "Yes, it's a known problem."

What would you like them to say? Are you looking for a promise to repay your losses? A explanation of what they are doing to improve the software? Commiseration? Apology?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Max*]

I want to see the monster traffic cones they grow around you, that can take out a side mirror.

I lol'ed. Don't worry, Naonak will come back to dislike your post.

 

[msnow]

I thought the very question of whether the OP's native language was English or not was in dispute? And here you are assuming it as
fact? Making fun (in other than a goodnatured way) is always inappropriate, regardless of the specifics, but criticizing language use
when it materially affects what is being said is legitimate. That said, most of the specifics cited above from the OP's letter are nothing
more than nits that any reasonable person can read right through with zero chance of misunderstanding.

Roger, so when "Pang" said "engine" and not "motor" you think that's materially important and you didn't know what he meant? I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments on that. Additionally it's been stated upthread by the person that posted the letter plus news outlets that this letter was a translation so no I think that English not being his native language is not in dispute. If it is I'm not aware of it. I think his whole letter has zero credibility though.