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A Push for Diesel Leaves London Gasping Amid Record Pollution

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by dgpcolorado, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    #1 dgpcolorado, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
    It's not just Beijing and New Delhi:

    New York Times:
    https://nyti.ms/2lsAZ2S

    [​IMG]

    ^ London smog in January. Matt Dunham/Associated Press


    It would appear that London needs more electric cars and fewer diesel ones. As a bicycle commuter since 1978 I have a particular hatred of diesels. Around here trucks are among the most common vehicles and a large majority of them are diesels. Not much fun slowly pedaling up a 14% grade when being passed by diesels — I can't just not breathe for awhile!
     
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  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Not to worry, with our current administration, cities here in North America will soon look similar.
     
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  3. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    I'm afraid you're right. I remember LA in the '60s; it got a lot better decades later despite a vast increase in vehicles and miles traveled. If CARB were to be blocked (yes, Congress can do that, albeit not without a court fight on states rights) Southern California and other polluted metro areas could gradually return to the bad old days.
     
  4. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    tmp_29534-20170218_131606675091936.jpg
    Took this pic this morning, you can see the haze in the background despite weather which would normally clear the air.

    Our Mayor has announced a £10 daily fee, starting October 2017, for older cars travelling into the congestion charging zone.

    To say that this isn't ambitious enough is an understatement.
     
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  5. Galve2000

    Galve2000 Member

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    I thought London already had congestion pricing?

    my brother in law bought a used bmw i3 as his daily commuter car. I was so proud when I saw it over the holidays. (from far away it looked like a Q5 they drive when they are in Greece, so i assumed they had just bought a Q5 for London too) he charges the i3 from a regular "Type G" outlet 5 days a week while at work for free and cars that are fully electric pay little or no registration fees, so he is saving quite a bundle. They do have a gas-guzzling range rover for out of town trips, but it hasn't seen much use since they got the i3.

    I don't think my brother in law makes his decisions based on environmental factors, but as the UK has incentivized its residents think of the environment, he has definitely ended up doing so.
     
  6. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    apparently the EU are going to fine the UK for exceeding pollution limits.

    The sheer nerve of this defies belief given that diesels purchased from the EU emitting vastly above their manufacturer stated emissions are a major contributor.

    European commission issues 'final warning' to UK over air pollution breaches

    simple answer: ban VW diesels for exceeding their stated emissions. Then ban any other vehicle that exceeds their manufacturer stated emissions too. Then faciltate Class action against these companies for misrepresentation. Should work out about $200bn in total which is roughly what some imbeciles on the continent reckon the UK should "pay to leave".

    (fwiw I voted remain - but the way some in the EU are behaving it's enough to make you wonder).
     
  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    England recently had it's most revered Car Guy, Jeremy Clarkson say to millions of people that England cannot make enough electricity for electric cars, and you must recharge them 4 times x 1 hour each time to travel 200mi, and they often are locked down to 56mph peak speed. Richard Hammond did not appear for the EV fairy tale session. He's the short smart one.

    By the way, I grew up in a very smoggy area, Southern California. That smog is brown like strong tea, visibility is under 1/4 mi, and the news reported how many were killed per day. We now has some the toughest emissions on earth, even gas cans have emissions control systems and weed wackers. The air is hundreds of times cleaner today.

    Then I was in London for week in the summer of 2015, and I'd say it's air is cleaner than 2017 Los Angeles by a wide margin.
     
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  8. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    :rolleyes:

    sure the blokes good for a laugh and makes a half-decent tv show, but really no right minded person believes a word he says.

    let's just leave that one there :D
     
  9. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    The £10 fee is on top of the daily congestion charge.

    It will apply to cars made before 2006, unless the owner lives in the zone. It does not apply to black cabs.

    Frankly I do not think it will make any difference at all.
     
  10. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Wow. London should have to looked to CA for guidance on the effect of diesel. Indeed, most diesel cars don't qualify for sale in CA due to their inability to meet emission standards.
     
  11. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    And AFAIK, the UK has totally missed the Rolling Coal movement!

    [​IMG]

    "Make America Gasp Again!"
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    The UK was one of five countries involved. I know the UK has received an escalating series of warnings for years, and they have known about the diesel "discrepancy" for quite a while now.
     
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  13. voyager

    voyager Member

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    #13 voyager, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
    London introduces new £10 'T-charge' to cut vehicle pollution

    City Hall is quick to respond. The new toxicity charge, known as T-charge, will affect both diesel and petrol cars with pre-Euro 4 engines, broadly those registered before 2005. It is designed to improve London's air quality, and will work alongside the existing £11.50 congestion charge during the same 7am to 6pm, Monday to Friday, window.

    Btw, you've gotta see the irony of reading the word toxiCity...
     
  14. CT200h

    CT200h Member

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    Even the newer technology diesels are huge polluters compared to EV's . I never understood any of the cities promoting diesels such as Paris did. Makes no sense how they could not get that the emissions are deadly from theee engines. I thought London was further ahead and had pollution and congestion charges to discourage diesels.
    Heck that's why all these short range PHEV's were made. The idea being you turn off your ice in the city run on your 15/ 20 miles of EV range and then restart the engine outside the city on the way home. In practice I doubt it really works that way.
     
  15. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    I saw one of those jerks in the county north of here awhile back, although I don't think it was aimed at me (EVs are so rare in this area that they aren't usually recognized). My impression is that the "rolling coal" crowd likes to pick on Prii.
     
  16. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    On road emissions from diesel cars have improved very little since Euro3, so this extra charge is politicking and collecting more money rather than substantive. The only way it might have a beneficial effect is if people swap their cars for a new, NON diesel, car.
     
  17. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Because common rail diesels can actually be made to operate cleaner than gasoline engines can. And a gasoline or alcohol engine cannot beat a diesel in CO2 emissions. It's a chemistry thing. The best thing that gasoline has going for it is that it's pollutants are mostly invisible, however, they are more lethal than diesel emissions. Don't breath carbon monoxide in particular, an emission sort of unique to gasoline or alcohol engines.

    As far as real PHEV's they were engineered based on how drivers actually drive instead of their imaginary driving habits. A PHEV normally covers over 80% of you miles, often close to 100%, on just electricity. The best engineered ones do not use the ICE engines to supplement the EV power in normal operation until the battery is drained.

    But there are PHEVs that were engineered simply to get green credits. Toyota made one called the Plug In Prius. It has virtually no battery range to speak of, and must run the ICE engine to have better acceleration than a moped. The battery and on board charger were not intended to be useful.
     
  18. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #18 McRat, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
    Name the technologies used to improve emissions on a 2017 diesel.

    How does buying a car with more CO2 and other emissions fix smog and global warming?
     
  19. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    As much as I like to bash Toyota, it is hard for me to argue that the Prius does not make a major contribution towards better air quality.

    Regardless of the technical merits, we have seemed to have reached a major inflection point towards electrification of urban transportation.

    Proterra CEO: Every New Transit Bus Will Be Electric by 2030

    Looks like even gardening tools will be electrified in the next decade. I've switched to EGOpower stuff, which now covers just about all gardening tools I can think of.
     
  20. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    I never understood why Europe has not adopted the hybrid or electric vehicles and promoted the diesel.
     

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