Norbert
TSLA will win
Maybe it's just me, but I dislike body roll as a passenger even more than as a driver. Good cornering, for me, is even more important for the comfort of driving ("sitting in it"), as it is for performance.
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Maybe it's just me, but I dislike body roll as a passenger even more than as a driver. Good cornering, for me, is even more important for the comfort of driving ("sitting in it"), as it is for performance.
Jaff
Active Member
NigelM
Recovering Member
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Don't get me wrong ... if they want cupholders and the car doesn't have them, it may not be a good fit. But I love the fact that at this point, we're talking about cosmetic things and not about if the car will perform or not. It speaks volumes about the car.
What logic? You're reading something I didn't write. I didn't say the inside of a big sedan should mirror a small, sporty car (or vice versa) or that people shouldn't complain about perceived flaws. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I was half serious, half facetious. Though it should be noted my car's size and sportiness are irrelevant; they improved this in later versions of the Miata, and there exist, I'm sure, other sporty/sports cars with usable cupholders. It was just amazingly poorly designed...didn't bother me, though, I just improved it with a simple aftermarket add-on. (shrug)
It's all relative. Where I'm coming from, the Model S's cupholder (and, well, everything except it's as big as a boat) is amazing. For others, the cupholder's a showstopper, I guess. We're all coming from different places on this.
Disclaimer: I rarely drive with a beverage. (To forestall the inevitable: No, I'm not saying no one should have a beverage....) This may change when we start taking my Model S for trips instead of my other half's small-to-medium SUV, though. Who knows, maybe I'll sing a different tune then. ;-)
Anyway, different strokes, etc. It's not the first car with bad cupholders, won't be the last, etc. The aftermarket will solve it if Tesla doesn't.
I've never been in a car with this (as far as I know, anyway); how common is this (high end? mid range? minivan? SVU? etc.). I thought cars and especially minivans had leapfrogged over reading lights straight to video screens like the Model S has. So many people seem to text, read on their mobile device, etc., which typically don't need lights. Anyway, just curious what kinds of cars have this. I thought it was, if anything, a minivan type of feature (or so small to be near-useless, like the one in the photo of the Model S posted in another thread--that looked too tiny to be much good). Thanks.
I thought the lights, not the mirrors, were nixed?
NigelM
Recovering Member
Found this in black, tan or grey. I really hope Tesla comes out with something more stylish, but something like this will solve our back seat storage issues:
This is exactly my point. My Hybrid Escalade has a deep richness and fullness in the low range for any song/source; it's not a bass shaking and vibrating hooptie. I'm a professional not a gold chain wearing 16y/o. The Model S should have a better low range response to any song/source which it does not based on my Get Amped experience
Regarding the lift gate, again this is exactly my point. The Model S is a sleek low profile car; it has little to no risk of hitting my garage door or ceiling. This is what I mean by short sightedness on Tesla's part or being over engineered without much thought to real life applications. Even my Hybrid Escalade's (which is much, much taller than Model S) rear lift gate doesn't hit the ceiling! Is your garage a half-height garage or some non-standard size or designed for people with achondroplasia?
Thanks for the point about the engineers. I was unaware of that. But that makes sense to me.
Incidentally I like all the chrome (like the Hybrid Escalade), but this is just a matter of taste - not important functionality such as with rear seat lights. The lights would be used to find items in the rear seat during darkness not necessarily for reading. Now I'm going to have to take out my phone from the pocket, go to the flashlight app after entering my PIN to access the phone, and then look for the item.
Poor design choices like this make me wonder also if this has anything to do with the senior engineers that left suddenly. Did they do a bad job which we are seeing now and so they were let go? Or were they prematurely let go for whatever reason, and now we are seeing poor interior design choices as a result???
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Here's my suggestion based on personal experience. Just go to the Dallas Get Amped event. I did this very thing at the Mahwah, NJ event without any reservations at all (the event was filled up by the time I clicked on the email invite). I live in Dallas and flew to the NJ event thinking I would only just get to see the car colors and maybe ride with someone else in the back. I flew into LGA, stayed with my sis in NYC, took the train to Jersey (1.5hrs from 34th in Manhattan!), and WALKED to the Sheraton with my sis.
When we got there, I was very pleasantly surprised that they were going to let me drive also! Yes, I had the grin afterwards and still think about it. I HAD to go to event b/c my deadline to lock in was shortly after the Mahwah event, and I just had to confirm and double check my suspicions and confirm my color choices (yes there is a very mild visible Paint Armor line on the hood, but it is mild and the benefits outweigh the disadvantages...)
Sometimes you just have to take things into your own hands and just do it and then manage the risk as best you can. This same philosophy is how I was granted US Patent 8220461 earlier this month by the way. I went out on a Design limb and turned out to be right.
So I do have some real appreciation for Design - and which is why I think Tesla should not drop the Design ball after coming so far and doing so well. I would be willing to wait further for the interior to be perfect. That is after all what Elon kept emphasizing during the Conference Call - creating a vehicle having the highest quality.
I'll also be at the Get Amped event in Dallas and do have reservations to test drive there. I'll let my wife drive the vehicle. Good luck getting a test drive (should be easy, just ask!).
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I agree that it's good that all the hand wringing is about cupholders and some interior details. At worst, this may affect the first thousand or so owners and hopefully whatever solution they offer is something they can retrofit (even for a price) to people who are really concerned about the rear cupholders (or lack of) after delivery.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
My problem with this, or the current Tesla solution, is that 97% of the time I don't need any cup holders or storage in the back seat. BUT, once in a blue moon I'm able to pull down the center seatback and voila! I've got two cup holders and storage (I have a 2006 Lexus 400h). I suppose if I know I'll need the space I can use something like this, or what Tesla designed, but really there's no reason Tesla couldn't have integrated the middle seatback as the storage area everyone is seeking.
CapitalistOppressor
Active Member
Yes. Or the fact that it's competition costs thousands more per year to operate. Seems like a glaring deficiency on the part of a BMW 550i that over 5 years it costs ~$30k to operate the vehicle, compared to ~$6k for Model S Performance. And in the mean time you get a car that severely outperforms the competition.
Personally I think that any company putting a car on the market, today, without well engineered cupholders somewhere inside, is just ameturish. It makes no difference whether YOU don't feel the need for a cupholder; a LOT of buyers for a car like this, in this price range, will feel that not offering one is inexcusable. And exceptional audio quality is to be expected as well. Just because YOU don't feel the need to rattle the mirrors with some great bass doesn't mean there aren't some buyers who want - no, expect - that in a car of this caliber. At this price level you are up against some pretty impressive competition. Competition that Tesla has specifically called out. Whether the Model S dusts the competition on a stopwatch 0-60, or costs less to operate over the course of five years, might matter little when you are trying to find a place to put your soda and your music sounds like crap (personally, I like my pop on occasion when I drive, and I like to turn up some Great White to brain rattling volume levels once in a while. Now you have an approximation of my age).
I have a sh*tty old 1997 Chevy S10 pickup that I drive for chores and during the winter. IT has a lighted vanity mirror. Not providing one in the Model S is inexcusable.
I'm sure that Tesla will address these issues, but I'm finding it hard to understand how a company staffed with so many people who have experience in this area would have missed this stuff. Some of it is more basic than cruise control. Personally I have no need or want for a nav system, but a lot of people want that, to the point now where it is expected these days on cars like this. Same goes with cupholders and lighted vanity mirrors.
What's more disturbing, after all the fanfare so far, is people saying, "Well the car is 98% done now, just a few more things to fix." What were those cars they sold back in June then? Post-pre-production test models? It comes off feeling a little (my apologies) Fisker-like.
I temper these comments with the acknowledgement that everything that I have read on this car to this point has had mostly praise to offer.
I have a sh*tty old 1997 Chevy S10 pickup that I drive for chores and during the winter. IT has a lighted vanity mirror. Not providing one in the Model S is inexcusable.
I'm sure that Tesla will address these issues, but I'm finding it hard to understand how a company staffed with so many people who have experience in this area would have missed this stuff. Some of it is more basic than cruise control. Personally I have no need or want for a nav system, but a lot of people want that, to the point now where it is expected these days on cars like this. Same goes with cupholders and lighted vanity mirrors.
What's more disturbing, after all the fanfare so far, is people saying, "Well the car is 98% done now, just a few more things to fix." What were those cars they sold back in June then? Post-pre-production test models? It comes off feeling a little (my apologies) Fisker-like.
I temper these comments with the acknowledgement that everything that I have read on this car to this point has had mostly praise to offer.
dennis
Model S Plaid
+1
Well spoken. I agree even though I'm too old to have ever listened to Great White. :biggrin:
kevincwelch
Active Member
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
-Mod poking nose in- ... Guys, I only ask for a couple of things.
1) Stay on topic (which you are), and,
2) Don't make it personal. (that seems to be a challenge in many threads)
Really hope that cars start getting delivered soon so that the 3 year old comments stop. I think we all have enough command of the language that we can get our point across without taking potshots?
1) Stay on topic (which you are), and,
2) Don't make it personal. (that seems to be a challenge in many threads)
Really hope that cars start getting delivered soon so that the 3 year old comments stop. I think we all have enough command of the language that we can get our point across without taking potshots?
Cup holders???? With 4.4 sec and Sig white leather seats there will be no open drinks or dripping Carl's cheese burgers in my Performance S! Eating-while-driving limited to supercharging restruants and grand kids belted in rear kiddy seats please (gogurt ok back there :biggrin
But where do closeable water-bottles go? Or those nice Tesla travel mugs? It shouldn't be necessary to lose 20% of the seating so that each passenger can have a place to put a water bottle.Cup holders???? With 4.4 sec and Sig white leather seats there will be no open drinks or dripping Carl's cheese burgers in my Performance S! Eating-while-driving limited to supercharging restruants and grand kids belted in rear kiddy seats please (gogurt ok back there :biggrin
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