Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

A sincere effort from a hater to adapt to living in a world with Teslas

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I agree, much of my problem is related to the government pressuring the industry and thus picking winners and losers. In my estimation, that's the antithesis to a free economy and the role of government, but honestly its more than that...

To be direct its not all EVs that anger(d) me, it's specific to Tesla. If I see a Leaf or a Mach-E I'm not impressed, but not disturbed at all either so my misery comes specifically from Tesla.

In one of my earlier posts I commented that I suspect my next car WILL be and EV. But I suspect a EQS, Taycan or eTron GT. Magically, the German brands don't make me angry.

I suspect much of my problem is not the Tesla car (an excellent EV, a so-so car IMHO) but the culture, of the more extreme fans in general, and Elon in particular.

Again thank you all for the conversation
 
  • Like
Reactions: CyberGus
I agree, much of my problem is related to the government pressuring the industry and thus picking winners and losers. In my estimation, that's the antithesis to a free economy and the role of government, but honestly its more than that...

To be direct its not all EVs that anger(d) me, it's specific to Tesla. If I see a Leaf or a Mach-E I'm not impressed, but not disturbed at all either so my misery comes specifically from Tesla.

In one of my earlier posts I commented that I suspect my next car WILL be and EV. But I suspect a EQS, Taycan or eTron GT. Magically, the German brands don't make me angry.

I suspect much of my problem is not the Tesla car (an excellent EV, a so-so car IMHO) but the culture, of the more extreme fans in general, and Elon in particular.

Again thank you all for the conversation
I truly believe that one reason “car guys” have such a visceral negative reaction to Tesla fans is because Tesla created a lot of new, but different, enthusiasts. These are not car people but they’ve found the first car they have truly loved. A lot of Tesla “Stans” come from no car whatsoever or maybe an old Civic or Prius or something. Cars were formerly just joyless appliances. Finally, for the first time they have a car they’re truly enthusiastic for. They could afford a BMW or Mercedes, tried them, and just kept their old Civic instead.

It often reminds me of Apple in about 2001. “Computer guys” couldn’t stand that anyone could possibly be enthusiastic and proud of a candy-colored contraption when they knew that their PC box was superior on paper. How effing stupid could you be to buy an iMac?! Mind if I tell you how stupid and obnoxious you are for buying that thing that I just know is inferior. How could it possibly bring you joy?!

In those days the computer guys were very truly livid at Mac fans in the same way you are towards Tesla owners. Of course we all know how that ultimately played out.

And then, my god, how could anyone love a little $500 music player when you could get better specs for half the price in a beige wrapper? Well, those iPod buyers would have just bought nothing instead, not the beige thing. It wasn’t that there was a competition, it was that brand new customers were discovering a love of digital music for the first time. Same with Tesla, many people are getting joy from a car for the very first time. It’s not between a Model 3 and a 3 Series, it’s between a Model 3 and just whatever has a decent lease special.

So you kind of have two camps of Tesla superfans from my perspective, the first being people for whom this is the first car they’ve ever been even remotely excited about. They are truly enamored that someone made a car to love, not a spec sheet on wheels. Then there’s the well-heeled group which blows away McLarens on the drag strip for half the price with three times the fuel economy. Not hard to be smug when you can roll up somewhere in your Tesla with a child seat in the back and walk Ferraris.

It’s important to remember that Tesla has delivered pretty near 1.5 million cars at this point and probably 1.35 million of them belong to people who just wanted a car and liked this one the best.

Much like Apple, the partisanship and vitriol will be diluted the larger the buyer pool is.

I can’t remember the last time anyone made fun of me for buying a Mac or an iPhone. In 2001 and 2007, respectively, it was quite controversial and stirred up big negative responses. We’re approaching that pivot now with Tesla.

When viewed through the lens of a Tesla being the first car that ever brought a customer joy it might make more sense. They also want others to get that same joy because it’s kind of profound to them.
 
Very helpful response mtndrew.

Computers don’t intrest me, indeed I find them distasteful but your Apple vs PC analogy makes sense. I didn’t know the conservative segment of the computer oriented population hated Apple products but that was never my culture. Analogy makes sense though.

Only recently do I even look at Tesla’s as cars. For me cars have engines, transmissions, and gas tanks. They make soulful sounds and have a pulse and interact and engage the driver. We car guys view EVs as (fast accelerating) iPads on wheels.

Only recently did I look at them as cars per se, and learning that there are normal people, albeit different than myself, who like them as I like V8s helps me see them in a more favorable light.
 
I bought my Model 3 because I like the technology and the car itself. And it rides like a high powered go-kart! I'm not some enviro-whacko who is out there screaming how the world will end and we must abandon all fossil fuels NOW. Having said that, although wind energy and solar and battery storage are not a 100% cure, they can certainly help. I don't think burning less oil and coal is a bad thing.

And no matter where the energy comes from, it's all about the money. When big corporations realize that certain types of energy are more profitable than oil or coal, those will be dropped, just like that. We aren't going to get rid of all gasoline and diesel vehicles anytime soon, they will be around for a long time in some amount. But as my Model 3 has proven over 3 years and 67,000+ miles, the average person going to work and driving around town will be just fine in an electric car, and not give up anything. And my Model 3 is faster than any gas car I ever owned, including a 2011 Challenger R/T.

I've also greatly enjoyed 67,000 miles of driving and not paying a penny of all the TAXES that are put on every gallon of gas! Pennsylvania hasn't added an extra EV registration fee yet to make up for the lost road use taxes, but they will eventually. For now, I'm enjoying it!
 
First off, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, and your transparency. Also, kudos to everyone in this thread for being so civil. Really nice to see that people can disagree respectfully for a change!

I bought my Tesla (just got it yesterday actually) not because I'm all about the environment (don't get me wrong, I am, but I'm not some fanatic about it). Let's just say I recycle and am happy to do it. One of my biggest factors (aside from loving the car) was skipping out on gas and all of the other costs of ownership inherent in ICE cars.

I'm sitting here today with a printout on my desk from my service center that services my Acura. It's showing a Knock sensor error from time-to-time. The car only has 27K miles on it, and this shouldn't be happening, but it is. Cost to repair? Over $1,000. My point being that the complexity of ICE cars just from an engineering standpoint is so much greater than EVs - so many more opportunities for failure. I don't have real numbers on part counts of ICE cars vs. EVs, but I'm fairly confident that there is sizable difference. It comes down to total cost of ownership.

I get that you love your cars, and you probably really enjoy working on them and keeping them in tip-top shape. No one's going to take that joy away from you.

Regarding your animosity towards tax credits for EVs. I think that's a specious argument when you compare the billions that we give to the oil and gas industry (which are not hurting for profits in any way). I'll gladly give up my pittance of a tax credit if I could also no longer subsidize the oil and gas industry. But we all know that's not going to happen.

You've reached out. That's a great step and very admirable. Thank you for that. Maybe take it a step further. Get to know the "dark-side". Maybe park at a Supercharger station (though not in one of the stalls) and chat up some of us. We really don't bite!

And I do have to point out one thing you said. It made me a little sad that you admitted you would do things to parked Teslas. I'm sure you've changed your ways, but I've seen some videos (recorded on the Tesla cameras) where people try to mess with Teslas. For no good reason at all. I'm sure you would be extremely upset if some jerk messed with your Benz! I guess I'll appeal to your Christian values - Tesla owners are your neighbors too. Love them! We'll all be better for it.

Thanks for the opportunity for us all to share our thoughts.
 
I think fuel is a limited resource that will run out if we don't find something else. If enough of us move to electric, it might just leave enough fuel for enthusiasts like you to continue their fun for a longer while. I see that as positive for both of us. Think about it.
Where will all the electricity come from to power the millions of electric vehicles produced? Power plants - and they need fuel.
 
Very helpful response mtndrew.

Computers don’t intrest me, indeed I find them distasteful but your Apple vs PC analogy makes sense. I didn’t know the conservative segment of the computer oriented population hated Apple products but that was never my culture. Analogy makes sense though.

Only recently do I even look at Tesla’s as cars. For me cars have engines, transmissions, and gas tanks. They make soulful sounds and have a pulse and interact and engage the driver. We car guys view EVs as (fast accelerating) iPads on wheels.

Only recently did I look at them as cars per se, and learning that there are normal people, albeit different than myself, who like them as I like V8s helps me see them in a more favorable light.
Like most here, I think it's great to be able to openly show an open mind and applaud you for doing so, if only more of this tribe called humanity could make an effort to be so...

You are in an enviable situation in that you can choose your vehicles for pleasure. I have been lucky to be able to do so and for a long time angled towards and enjoyed expensive cars that gave me pleasure - but the reality is that the vast majority of people do not have that luxury, they are buying 'commodity' vehicles that despite effective marketing usually do not offer much driving excitement.
It is these folks that either choose not to or cannot buy 'exciting' vehicles with extravagant engines that will turn to EV at warp speed as price point/accessibility allows. In my opinion it is that majority demographic which is driving the sea-change, not tax funded subsidies. I would challenge anyone to argue the emotional merits of a Toyota Camry over a Model 3 for example.

For folks that can access a 'fun' vehicle, the appeal of EV is probably a lot less (would I buy a Panamera over a Model S)? The visceral feel of a high performance semi or exotic engine in harmony with a response chassis is very compelling, but take that away and what is there to compete on? Technology, aesthetics, fuel economy, running costs. I think in these considerations Tesla competes very well overall (build quality aside), and has also added high performance for the most part.

Obvious counter argument here is pricepoint, but almost every engine is now turbo charged and so again the thrill/emotion factor is reduced from even a few years back. Price competing vehicles to me have become significantly less interesting over the last 10 years and so again the actual comparable are getting closer.

I agree with others here that I don't think probably ever will existing ICE vehicles be removed, but for sure the sea-change will come from owner choice I believe faster than legislation/punitive measures.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jpfive
Where will all the electricity come from to power the millions of electric vehicles produced? Power plants - and they need fuel.
You're not wrong, but at least that pollution is at the power plant instead of in the city. The air around where we live is cleaner that way.
And in places like here in Quebec, it's mostly hydro-electric which pollutes relatively little. We even export some to the usa. Finally, alternative power plants are being installed to slowly transition coal etc. It just takes time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pheezus and pkitch
You're not wrong, but at least that pollution is at the power plant instead of in the city. The air around where we live is cleaner that way.
And in places like here in Quebec, it's mostly hydro-electric which pollutes relatively little. We even export some to the usa. Finally, alternative power plants are being installed to slowly transition coal etc. It just takes time.
Best time to switch to renewables was yesterday, next best time is today.
 
You have Elon and Tesla because you've been told to by the medie for a decade. Media funded by established auto and oil.

Theres so much vested interest in vast profits from destructive unsustainable enterprises working against sustainable transport its hardly surprising.

None of their arguments are valid.

Now turn round and look at what Tesla has achieved. Fast, clean, safe, efficient cars. No one else was going to step up and do this because they all had vested interests in not doing it.

Your hatred is your own issue. No one is coming for your v8's (much like your guns), your weekend toy isnt threatened, mass transport that is literally killing people and the planets ecosphere is the target. And whats worse is we're only suggesting swap it for something better.
 
Perhaps another way to understand the view from my side of the fence.

This is pertaining to a town in Australia:

A town in Australia has announced plans to restrict cat ownership to two per household as part of a strict new by-law. From early 2020, cats are banned from being outdoors between 8 p.m. and 7 a.m., officials in Mount Barker, a southern Australian town around 20 miles from Adelaide, said on Wednesday.Sep 5, 2019

As you know there are only two kinds of people in this world. Cat people and dog people. I am the former.

Imagine if the government came for your cats, or dogs. Imagine if your neighbors voted/conspired against you or your beloved pet, even if there are legitimate grievances to be made against cats or dogs. Using this context it's easier to see the anger ICE people sometimes feel towards EV people.

I am trying to get over this negativity and I appreciate your continued input, but wanted to share my thoughts as well.

Just a bit of an Australia perspective on this from someone that's lived there. Australia is very protective of native species being an island and historical issues of invasive and destructive species introduction since European discovery and colonization (see cane toad for most known instance). This may sound very liberal to an American, but it is not eco madness. Australia is protecting the native flora and fauna which drive tourism economy and world renowned bio diversity. Being an island there's very unique biospheres which Australia moves to protect - via Bio Security at Federal and State / Territory levels. The bio diversity is quite important to Australia taking just Tourism into example; it is a major asset for the country - but for other sectors of the country.

An example of this recently is TR4 in agriculture, Tropical Race 4 which had the potential to wipe out major if not all Banana production. Bio Security QLD jumped straight on that ASAP. Bio security also participates in things like Swine Flu, Covid etc.

With lessons learned from early colonization and later migration of people to Australia, Bio Security has become quite vigilant and proactive.

Cats are very destructive to native species and there is a national debate on how to handle it long term recognizing the unique value of bio diversity to Australia but also that Australia is generally a Free and Open Country like America, but executed in a different manner.

Dogs can also be an issue esp feral / wild ones, see the Tree Kangaroo for example. Australia in many ways is a wild and untouched land but then almost all the population lives on the coasts in / near the major Capital Cities so there's a spectrum of issues.

Generally there are a lot of invasive species in Aus to manage!

Like America, Australia is diverse and has government at the Federal, State / Territory and Local levels. It is likewise very diverse in geography and landscapes. For example the oldest Rainforest on the planet is the Daintree rainforest in Far North Queensland. Whilst the middle is the red dirt land most often seen in movies / imagined. These areas have very different needs, strength and weakness across economic, natural resource and populations and require different management strategies.

Some areas may look to manage certain risks more stringently than others, such as with Cats, or even rabbits in parts of QLD.

Anyway, the main point here is in spirit of the open discussion, some education / perspective and context as it is easy to see the issue as government vs the rights of the people without some of the other factors involved. Australia tends to try and balance these as much as possible. The government at all levels tends to be open for the most part and seek feedback and involvement in the processes and for almost all things they give the citizenry methods to dispute, appeal, feedback etc.

In your specific example, this was done by a Shire / Council (local government like a municipality in US, but in Aus they often have some responsibilities similar to US states) with what appears balance that can be see re the times the cats should not be outdoors, owners of more than two cats prior to the by law are exempt and they will be culling feral cats (which again are a HUGE problem in Aus).

The shire / council likely would have posted notice of an impending decision, had an open feedback period and even perhaps open council meeting.

BTW, Bio Security QLD is great to deal with. Had multiple instances of invasive species on properties (mainly invasive plant / weed) and they stop by, explain what it is and why they need to do something, give you educational materials, book a time and do their thing very professionally.

Hope this helps for some context and apologies for rambling
 
EVs, including electric planes, are inevitable. Nevertheless there are still horses even though we migrated to horseless carriages. Through your lifetime I think you will find fuel for your toys. By the way I like the same kind of toys as you do.
 
I mean this with honest respect and concern: you should seek professional emotional help. It is not normal to react to the existence of things that other people enjoy and you do not with "lost sleep, aggravation, blood pressure spikes and rage." If you're having trouble regulating your mood in such a way as to — at minimum — just ignore the things that you don't prefer, then it's well past time that you obtain medical advice.

People who are not me are often interested in different things than I am. I don't see the need to have a giant pickup truck with a pristine bed that has never been used to haul anything; a lot of people around here own those and enjoy them as I will my EV. I'm uninterested in owning a classic sports car; even though I am unlikely to own one myself, I'm impressed by the amount of effort that others put into maintaining theirs and will not begrudge them that hobby. I don't like the taste of oysters; some people do and I'm happy to let them eat those. You don't have to enjoy something, or even understand why someone else enjoys it, to be minimally tolerant of people who have opinions different than your own.

This — the anger toward something you don't understand, the whataboutism that EVs are somehow attacking your way of life, and the labelling of people who enjoy something you don't as somehow "other" or inferior to those who share your interests — is genuinely the sort of inappropriate emotional response that therapy is well-equipped to help resolve.
 

Federal government spends trillions of dollars - corporations get plenty - and you doctors [healthcarein general] are doing just fine. You vote with your $. not a federal vote but a market vote thru car companies.
 
man how am i just seeing this thread now ! I didnt know there was THAT MUCH animosity towards Tesla owners (Tesla or EV in general?) .

I guess Im naïve for not understand your side of this, Doc. Im a gearhead too, Ive rebuild lots of cars and used to spend my younger years roaming junkyards pulling engines and trans all day. I love spinning wrenches. Love MBs, AMG, all the German makes. Ive owned so many VWs Ive lost track. I love anything with wheels thats fast. I love racing and tracking cars. Im also training to become a heli pilot (the R22 is a real bitch to learn). I own a very successful aftermarket autoparts company that specializes in machining all sorts of automotive components in our spare time, for our real job we machine all sorts of aerospace components for major airlines and MROs (commercial and military). www.GruvenParts.com

Im also a Christian, we have alot in common it sounds on our viewpoints regarding gov't too...

I do love EV's though, and this Model Y Performance I just got into is like a Lambo Huracan that comfortably seats 5. I had a 911 before and this MYP would eat it for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and any snack in between on any track in the world. Its just a really awesome, super fast car.

All that said, I dont necessarily believe EV is the only path ahead. As awesome as this car is, its range is questionable. If you drive it hard, you will be walking. It is not sufficient for most of us. If I tow with this, my range goes even lower. And when Im towing, Im sure as hell nowhere near any supercharger network. Nor do I care add pointless hours to road trip diverting to supercharger stations that hopefully work and are not full, while i then wait an hour for a fill up when I could of filled up an ICE in 5 minutes. And can we even mine enough lithium to make enough batteries to put everyone in an EV anyways ? Probably not. So Im definitely not coming from a "you better ditch your ICE in favor of an EV" attitude, believe me.

EVs are a good step ahead and I think Tesla is making some damn good cars that are pushing the industry. We will soon also get some awesome cars and trucks from other manufacturers. But my $ is actually on a good hybrid that could drive a few hundred miles as EV but then also add range from ICE when needed. That would be really be perfect for most. Good to meet you, come drive this MYP and let me know what you think. It might just be an AMG killer :) After all, a true gearhead appreciates any form of transportation thats fun to drive. I cant imagine having much more fun than this, except a tri motor Tessy !
 
Last edited:
Good afternoon everyone.

This message has taken me a long time to commit to.

I am a hater. I do not wish to remain a hater. I'm tired of lost sleep, aggravation, blood pressure spikes and rage every time I see a Tesla. I sincerely want to get to know about Tesla owners and their motivation to drive Teslas and grow past this miserable anti-Tesla obsession that has drained me of so much energy over the years. In return, some of you may find it useful or interesting to learn about why Teslas are so hated by petrolheads such as myself.

It occurs to me we are all people, on both sides of the equation.

I'll try to keep it brief but a little about myself.

I'm a dyed in the wool car guy my whole life. I'm 57 (as of yesterday, happy birthday to me ;-). I've restored classics, I've raced motorcycles (amateur), and have owned maybe 15 cars and about 50 motorcycles over the years. I currently have a 500HP twin turbo S Class Mercedes, a restored older Ford pickup, A Ducati, a Moto Guzzi, a Gold Wing, and a Harley. I am also a private pilot and own my own plane.

So you can see I get a lot of my life's joy from internal combustion, and it is a way of life I don't want ripped out of my hands.

I successfully shorted Tesla when it was profitable to do so. I became a shareowner (substantial) when it became profitable to do so.

I was THAT GUY who will give rude gestures to every Tesla driver, or do things to their cars while parked. I was THAT GUY who would road rage against any Tesla I had the opportunity. I was THAT GUY who would convey any hateful negative (truthful however) comment against Tesla any chance I had in conversation in person of in a forum.

Lest you think me a Luddite, I'll inform you that I am a Rutgers, Yale, and Stanford trained physician, and a commercial pilot, amongst other accomplishments that verify I am highly intelligent and highly educated.

So why all the hate?

As alluded to above I feel as if electric car people and legislation is trying to take away my way of life. I enjoy ICE vehicles an lifestyle and I am heavily invested it them. I resent elected officials taking a lot of my tax money and using it to help people buy expensive vehicles that I am subsidizing. I find Elon distasteful as an individual, and antithetical to the lifestyle of a servant leader that I value as a Christian. Also to be frank, I've found Tesla owners to be eco-snobs (I coined a new term perhaps) and in general I don't like liberals or fringe eco-maniacs.

With that said I'm sure that there are many good people who own Teslas, and than most of them don't buy Teslas simply to anger people like myself, but rather to drive themselves and their families from place to place. I REALLY want to grow past this problem. It's hurting me, not helping you, and as a Christian I cannot harbor this hate.

I feel as if I aired this and read some responses it would help me grow. This is my confession.

Thanks in advance for your patience,

Bill
Hey Bill, 54 here, owned 57 ICE vehicles, 1- Volt, and 2- Teslas. (yes, 59 cars in 54 years...lol).....i bought mine to beat my ICE buddies.....solely for the cool factor, and pure power.....dislike the libs for their mindset with a passion!.....but like you, realize there not all bad......just in the direction they want personal liberties, and government to go....
 
Misplaced angst. I think Elon can be a bit of a douche sometimes. Some CA people can generally be perceived as general douches. My spouse and I were once referred to as "the South Carolina people" on a cruise by a California couple after using their disco voices to let us know they had driven their share of $100k+ vehicles. I let it go for Californians in general. We did not feel it would be productive conversation to share our career paths at that point.
So cars... I am a car guy to the point that we built a separate garage just for me to work in. Two post lift, welding table, blasting cabinet, etc. I just sent my 69 Impala to the paint shop after stripping and re-doing the frame myself. It sits beside my E46 track car. My daily was until just recently an i3 REX because I needed the gasoline engine crutch. Now Tesla has enough range to make me comfortable and it's faster from 0-60 than anything I want to commit to building. My M6 got me a really fat speeding ticket because it doesn't really wind up until you're already moving so there is that.
Also, I make fuel injectors, among other car parts, for a living.
The point is, I like cars and not IC engines. I no longer have the time or patience to sit in the living room setting V12 valve clearances (nor would my spouse enjoy it). It sounds like you like cars too. It's ok to hate on Elon and still buy a Tesla. He has had to face some very real business consequences from his behavior at times. I expect that will continue and I'll hopefully still be happy with my car.