JimBob 909
Little Red Raven
So when you burn CNG there's no exhaust? I'm serious, something must result from the process of burning.
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A sincere effort from a hater to adapt to living in a world with Teslas
- Thread starter FastDoc
- Start date
Good morning NW driver, from a fellow NW driver
Out of respect for the rules of the forum which I believe discourage dissenting opinions to anthropomorphic global warming I'll not reply here but you are welcome to PM me if you wish.
I'll only say that there are many highly educated intelligent thoughtful compassionate people who do not believe that giving up a prosperous lifestyle and/or their car will save the world. I respect the thoughts on both side of the issue, and I appreciate your question.
Burning CNG, which is mostly methane, results in has significantly fewer hydrocarbon emissions.
It helps to start with a gas with single or very short hydrocarbon chains.
The problem with use of CNG is that you're still wasting a lot of energy using the NG.
CNG trash trucks do have the benefit of being able to be a market for landfill gas.
Probably not as clean for the exhaust as regular fossil natural gas, but still better than diesel.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
The irony is that most people assume Tesla owners are rich people showing off their prosperous lifestyle
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
"The point of all this was, and remains, accelerating the advent of sustainable energy, so that we can imagine far into the future and life is still good. That's what "sustainable" means. It's not some silly, hippy thing -- it matters for everyone.
By definition, we must at some point achieve a sustainable energy economy or we will run out of fossil fuels to burn and civilization will collapse. Given that we must get off fossil fuels anyway and that virtually all scientists agree that dramatically increasing atmospheric and oceanic carbon levels is insane, the faster we achieve sustainability, the better." - Elon Musk (2016)
By definition, we must at some point achieve a sustainable energy economy or we will run out of fossil fuels to burn and civilization will collapse. Given that we must get off fossil fuels anyway and that virtually all scientists agree that dramatically increasing atmospheric and oceanic carbon levels is insane, the faster we achieve sustainability, the better." - Elon Musk (2016)
Sadly, showing off, actually was the motivation for many Tesla customers. However Tesla brilliantly played upon this snob-appeal to get a lot of people to switch from whatever "status-car" they had been driving to an electric.The irony is that most people assume Tesla owners are rich people showing off their prosperous lifestyle
Without this market, Tesla's mission to transition to sustainable transportation probably would be taking a lot longer that it has, if at all. There aren't enough altruistic visionaries with enough money to be able to make it happen by themselves.
Thanks to the rich and wanna-look-like-they're-rich for all the help.
My contempt for Musk is absolute and complete, but I am able to give him credit where it is due.
His marketing of the electric car was excellent, as manifested by Tesla's obvious success in their segment, which for all practical purposes they created.
Tesla took the snob appeal of the early Prius (remember the Prius was the virtue-signaling car of choice of the Hollywood elite) and added a fairly good looking and fairly good performing visage in the form of the original Model S. This combined with a very high price so that only the wealthy could afford which combined to make the car aspirational and appealing to many. This included people outside the usual environmentalist spectrum to those happy to just show off with an objectively decent car.
This took market share from the luxury car segment so some people who wanted to show off with a Benz or a Bimmer were able to buy a Model S, and get to show off as environmentalists as well for no extra charge.
This vehicular image stuck and was parlayed on to the Model 3/Y as well.
This is not to say that Teslas are not good cars. Even I recognize that they are in many ways, but that is not the only reason they sell.
This was brilliant marketing on Musk's part and in some ways visionary.
This is also why after I made money shorting the stock some time ago, after a period of observation, invested heavily and have made good money off Tesla's success.
His marketing of the electric car was excellent, as manifested by Tesla's obvious success in their segment, which for all practical purposes they created.
Tesla took the snob appeal of the early Prius (remember the Prius was the virtue-signaling car of choice of the Hollywood elite) and added a fairly good looking and fairly good performing visage in the form of the original Model S. This combined with a very high price so that only the wealthy could afford which combined to make the car aspirational and appealing to many. This included people outside the usual environmentalist spectrum to those happy to just show off with an objectively decent car.
This took market share from the luxury car segment so some people who wanted to show off with a Benz or a Bimmer were able to buy a Model S, and get to show off as environmentalists as well for no extra charge.
This vehicular image stuck and was parlayed on to the Model 3/Y as well.
This is not to say that Teslas are not good cars. Even I recognize that they are in many ways, but that is not the only reason they sell.
This was brilliant marketing on Musk's part and in some ways visionary.
This is also why after I made money shorting the stock some time ago, after a period of observation, invested heavily and have made good money off Tesla's success.
I hope “doing something to a parked car” did not mean keying it or any other form of damage. That would require more atonement than just an anonymous online confession.
@FastDoc Since its been months since your original post, I'm curious if you've dealt with your emotional projecting onto Teslas and their owners on the road/public places?
As others have posted, outward reactions like this are not normal psychological behaviors. But. I'm sure you as an educated physician, should be well aware, and I'd expect you would have gotten some cognitive behavioral therapy by now.
I'm 40, and would be triggered by other things (not Teslas) that would cause me express odd angry behaviors towards undeserving objects/people, I can report that the cognitive behavioral therapy was the best thing I'd ever done for myself and my ongoing daily enjoyment of life. It turned out I had undiagnosed PTSD that would cause me to constantly be in a hightened state of arousal, that once treated, I was much more able to manage my anger/behavior and be triggered less/if never at all. Any of my previous road rage behaviors are gone.
If you're still having the issues I don't believe you'll get the therapy you probably need from a Tesla forum. Your reasoning about you having to pay for subsidies of EV/Teslas seems like merely a scapegoat or incorrect rationalization for your irrational behavior that merely manifesting through your hate for Tesla(s). Think about it this way... you're also subsidizing public schools and welfare checks, but are you spitting, yelling obsenities, or vandalizing young children in public schools or adults or families on welfare? The logic and your targeting of Teslas for having to subsidize them makes no sense.
Regardig the Tesla vehicle specifically, I've always been an ICE enthusiast up until November of 2021 when I took delivery of my Tesla Model 3 Performance. Before that I owned a 2021 BMW M2 Competition in manual that I took delivery of in August 2021. My BMW M2 C was not a new/problem free vehical, but my Tesla has been. Before I bought the Tesla, I sat in many and thought to myself "how can anyone like this bland interior?" The answer to that came to me 3 days into ownership when I realized how amazingly calming the interior actually is for hard bumper to bumper commutes here in So. Cal. Its the most minimal and stress free drive I've ever had with plenty of performance whenever I need it (more so than the BMW M2). The minimalism of the interior has really grown on me and I now appreciate it.
Energy wise, I was spending $15/day in my BMW M2C on my daily commute on gas, now I'm only spending about $2.00 but having just as much fun.
It left me wondering, why the heck did I wait so long to get a EV? Granted I've never been a Tesla fan boy, in fact, quite the opposite. But I'm now a EV convert.
The one thing I miss from my BMW M2 is the engine/exhaust sound, but given all the benefits of the EV, I"ll never go back to ICE. I also just canceled a C8 Corvette allocation for the same reason. ICE can go the way of the DODO as far as I'm concerned.
As others have posted, outward reactions like this are not normal psychological behaviors. But. I'm sure you as an educated physician, should be well aware, and I'd expect you would have gotten some cognitive behavioral therapy by now.
I'm 40, and would be triggered by other things (not Teslas) that would cause me express odd angry behaviors towards undeserving objects/people, I can report that the cognitive behavioral therapy was the best thing I'd ever done for myself and my ongoing daily enjoyment of life. It turned out I had undiagnosed PTSD that would cause me to constantly be in a hightened state of arousal, that once treated, I was much more able to manage my anger/behavior and be triggered less/if never at all. Any of my previous road rage behaviors are gone.
If you're still having the issues I don't believe you'll get the therapy you probably need from a Tesla forum. Your reasoning about you having to pay for subsidies of EV/Teslas seems like merely a scapegoat or incorrect rationalization for your irrational behavior that merely manifesting through your hate for Tesla(s). Think about it this way... you're also subsidizing public schools and welfare checks, but are you spitting, yelling obsenities, or vandalizing young children in public schools or adults or families on welfare? The logic and your targeting of Teslas for having to subsidize them makes no sense.
Regardig the Tesla vehicle specifically, I've always been an ICE enthusiast up until November of 2021 when I took delivery of my Tesla Model 3 Performance. Before that I owned a 2021 BMW M2 Competition in manual that I took delivery of in August 2021. My BMW M2 C was not a new/problem free vehical, but my Tesla has been. Before I bought the Tesla, I sat in many and thought to myself "how can anyone like this bland interior?" The answer to that came to me 3 days into ownership when I realized how amazingly calming the interior actually is for hard bumper to bumper commutes here in So. Cal. Its the most minimal and stress free drive I've ever had with plenty of performance whenever I need it (more so than the BMW M2). The minimalism of the interior has really grown on me and I now appreciate it.
Energy wise, I was spending $15/day in my BMW M2C on my daily commute on gas, now I'm only spending about $2.00 but having just as much fun.
It left me wondering, why the heck did I wait so long to get a EV? Granted I've never been a Tesla fan boy, in fact, quite the opposite. But I'm now a EV convert.
The one thing I miss from my BMW M2 is the engine/exhaust sound, but given all the benefits of the EV, I"ll never go back to ICE. I also just canceled a C8 Corvette allocation for the same reason. ICE can go the way of the DODO as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Slug.
I don't see the indication for CBT in my case. Just as I don't take a pill for a headache or other sundry pain or problem, rather deal with it and make it go away or wait for it to resolve on it own.
This issue fits into that category, and my management has been for the most part successful. Communication with the fine members of this board has helped.
If I lived in SoCal I'd be more inclined to an EV for the reasons you state.
I'll be moving to SLO in the future which has dramatically less traffic than SoCal, it may still influence my decision in the future.
I think the C8 would have been a good idea/investment for someone so inclined as it will forever represent the high point of IC technology and capability, for all practical purposes never to be exceeded, and would be a nice part of any automotive enthusiast's collection. Personally I greatly prefer the looks and practicality of the C7 Stingray. I have had the pleasure of owning two convertible Corvettes in the past, selling my last one 5 years ago when I bought my S Class Benz.
As I have stated, the day will come (7-10 years I think) when I will trade my S Class for an EV as my next car.
I'm just waiting for Mercedes/BMW/Porsche/Audi to make the car I find appealing, perfect it, and let it depreciate a few years down to my price range. That is where my time frame comes from.
In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy my Benz.
I'm glad you are enjoying your EV also.
As long as 'To each his own' is allowed, I can live with that
I don't see the indication for CBT in my case. Just as I don't take a pill for a headache or other sundry pain or problem, rather deal with it and make it go away or wait for it to resolve on it own.
This issue fits into that category, and my management has been for the most part successful. Communication with the fine members of this board has helped.
If I lived in SoCal I'd be more inclined to an EV for the reasons you state.
I'll be moving to SLO in the future which has dramatically less traffic than SoCal, it may still influence my decision in the future.
I think the C8 would have been a good idea/investment for someone so inclined as it will forever represent the high point of IC technology and capability, for all practical purposes never to be exceeded, and would be a nice part of any automotive enthusiast's collection. Personally I greatly prefer the looks and practicality of the C7 Stingray. I have had the pleasure of owning two convertible Corvettes in the past, selling my last one 5 years ago when I bought my S Class Benz.
As I have stated, the day will come (7-10 years I think) when I will trade my S Class for an EV as my next car.
I'm just waiting for Mercedes/BMW/Porsche/Audi to make the car I find appealing, perfect it, and let it depreciate a few years down to my price range. That is where my time frame comes from.
In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy my Benz.
I'm glad you are enjoying your EV also.
As long as 'To each his own' is allowed, I can live with that
rhumbliner
Member
This reminds me of the old adage “Doctors and Lawyers are certainly highly trained but being highly trained does not imply one is highly educated”.
That would explain all the degrees on my wall for everything from my post doctorate education at Yale and Stanford to my FAA certification to fly complex and high performance airplanes, a commercial pilot rating, and training to fly in instrument conditions without outside references.
I can't speak for lawyers. ;-)
I can't speak for lawyers. ;-)
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
This must be an new adage, I've never heard it before.
I think the C8 would have been a good idea/investment for someone so inclined as it will forever represent the high point of IC technology and capability, for all practical purposes never to be exceeded, and would be a nice part of any automotive enthusiast's collection. Personally I greatly prefer the looks and practicality of the C7 Stingray. I have had the pleasure of owning two convertible Corvettes in the past, selling my last one 5 years ago when I bought my S Class Benz.
As long as 'To each his own' is allowed, I can live with that
Very true regarding the C8. If I had the proper garage space, I probably would have leaned towards that. I had instant regret when I canceled it. But I'll survive and my daughter's college fund will be better off for it HAHA.
In case it helps, I remembered the resistance to change graph and that maybe you can find yourself somewhere on this graph attached and manage towards "moving on." Now granted, Elon is not very likeable and I dont prefer him as a leader and don't care for his ideals/personality, but its not a Tesla owner's fault, that's for sure. Elon won't be at the helm of Tesla forever so try to keep that in perspective.
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Don't worry, Musk doesn't get all of the credit. We bought our first Roadster from a Tesla led by Martin Eberhard. Musk was just the moneybags keeping it going. Eberhard is the one who said he would drive through Palo Alto, CA, past the $multi-million mansions (and surprisingly small houses) and see a statistically significantly large number of them with a Prius and a Porsche in the driveways. This supported his own love of fast sports cars but hatred of the damage they do to the economy and ecology. He came up with the idea of an electric sports car after learning of and supporting the addition of Li-ion batteries in AC Propulsion's t-zero. AC Propulsion introduced Musk and Eberhard.
As we all know, the golden rule about who makes the rules, took its course and Martin and Musk unpleasantly split ways. Many of us were concerned and demanded that Musk explain what was happening. Had many of us cancelled our Roadster orders, Tesla would have never happened. Fortunately, Musk called a meeting of us owners, looked us in the eye, and said that he was sticking to the plan. He seemed genuine, we knew something of his stubbornness, and few pulled out.
Fourteen years later, he has continued to keep his promise and here we are. You may not like his personality but he does have integrity and willingness to do what is right as shown by his actions. He could be living the dream on an island or anywhere else if he wanted.
FastDoc, I am confused. For someone with your education, your accomplishments as a doctor, a pilot, a bicyclist, an investor, etc. to be able to show so little concern about the deterioration of our environment is difficult to comprehend. I do have only a bachelors in biology and little to show for it but I feel that I am capable of following the science of air pollution, water pollution, habitat destruction, chemical pollution and all of the other human contributions to the degradation of the health of the ecosystem on which all of us ultimately depend. The scientists with the training and responsibility for analyzing these parameters are, by a vast majority, convinced that the situation is dire. And yet you, almost casually, dismiss it as nothing you need be concerned about. It isn't just about ICE versus EV. It's about the very many ways that we pollute without a second thought. I like to think that I am contributing to the health and well being of generations to come. I suppose you might call me an environmental "fanatic" but I would prefer realist. My wife and I choose to incorporate positive environmental factors into our lifestyle and it's not an effort, we feel good about it.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
When we say "save the environment", we really mean "save the environment for future generations of the human race". If you don't care about humanity, then the science is irrelevant.
I have no children (that I know of lol) so if the Earth fell into the sun on the day of my funeral, I don't know why I should care.
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