A sincere effort from a hater to adapt to living in a world with Teslas

[FastDoc]

Good afternoon everyone.

This message has taken me a long time to commit to.

I am a hater. I do not wish to remain a hater. I'm tired of lost sleep, aggravation, blood pressure spikes and rage every time I see a Tesla. I sincerely want to get to know about Tesla owners and their motivation to drive Teslas and grow past this miserable anti-Tesla obsession that has drained me of so much energy over the years. In return, some of you may find it useful or interesting to learn about why Teslas are so hated by petrolheads such as myself.

It occurs to me we are all people, on both sides of the equation.

I'll try to keep it brief but a little about myself.

I'm a dyed in the wool car guy my whole life. I'm 57 (as of yesterday, happy birthday to me ;-). I've restored classics, I've raced motorcycles (amateur), and have owned maybe 15 cars and about 50 motorcycles over the years. I currently have a 500HP twin turbo S Class Mercedes, a restored older Ford pickup, A Ducati, a Moto Guzzi, a Gold Wing, and a Harley. I am also a private pilot and own my own plane.

So you can see I get a lot of my life's joy from internal combustion, and it is a way of life I don't want ripped out of my hands.

I successfully shorted Tesla when it was profitable to do so. I became a shareowner (substantial) when it became profitable to do so.

I was THAT GUY who will give rude gestures to every Tesla driver, or do things to their cars while parked. I was THAT GUY who would road rage against any Tesla I had the opportunity. I was THAT GUY who would convey any hateful negative (truthful however) comment against Tesla any chance I had in conversation in person of in a forum.

Lest you think me a Luddite, I'll inform you that I am a Rutgers, Yale, and Stanford trained physician, and a commercial pilot, amongst other accomplishments that verify I am highly intelligent and highly educated.

So why all the hate?

As alluded to above I feel as if electric car people and legislation is trying to take away my way of life. I enjoy ICE vehicles an lifestyle and I am heavily invested it them. I resent elected officials taking a lot of my tax money and using it to help people buy expensive vehicles that I am subsidizing. I find Elon distasteful as an individual, and antithetical to the lifestyle of a servant leader that I value as a Christian. Also to be frank, I've found Tesla owners to be eco-snobs (I coined a new term perhaps) and in general I don't like liberals or fringe eco-maniacs.

With that said I'm sure that there are many good people who own Teslas, and than most of them don't buy Teslas simply to anger people like myself, but rather to drive themselves and their families from place to place. I REALLY want to grow past this problem. It's hurting me, not helping you, and as a Christian I cannot harbor this hate.

I feel as if I aired this and read some responses it would help me grow. This is my confession.

Thanks in advance for your patience,

Bill

 

[GtiMart]

Hey man. Good on you for opening up and discussing it. Let me say I have NOT bought a Tesla to give anyone trouble.

I had a couple WRX before, a tuned Audi, a VW GTI etc. I love sports cars. However, once I drove a Tesla I was sold. I like the car for its acceleration, instant torque, no smell, low noise, heating in winter, etc. The fact that it's ecologic was low on my list. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to pollute less but it was not my main concern.

You help me understand the hate a bit. Feeling like something you love is being taken away is bad. It shouldn't be seen that way.

I think fuel is a limited resource that will run out if we don't find something else. If enough of us move to electric, it might just leave enough fuel for enthusiasts like you to continue their fun for a longer while. I see that as positive for both of us. Think about it.

 

[FastDoc]

Thanks for your reply GTI.

This is what I was hoping for. A discourse to allow me to sincerely apologize for my behavior and learn about the people who drive Teslas.

I should have also mention I tested a Model 3 Performance and a Model S. The 3 was indeed quick. Comfort was suboptimal. Harsh ride, squeaks and rattles, and ill fitting panels and poor paint that I'm sure everyone has heard about. I thought it was too expensive for what it was but otherwise thought it was a good car. Perhaps the regular 3 rides better. The seats were OK but the interior and the exterior are, shall I say, an acquired taste. I liked the quiet and the autopilot. If the autopilot gets improved, I think it would really reduce driver fatigue on long drives.

I genuinely liked the S. The seat comfort rivaled my Mercedes, and the acceleration was just as good as my big Benz. The interior was better than the 3, but far below the German sedans, but again a matter of taste. I actually like the exterior looks of the S. It has aged well. I was able to see why people like these cars, although I think they are very expensive for what you get.

With that said my car was not inexpensive, but as Americans we are free to spend our money as we see fit, and I respect that too.

 

[Jerome_NYC]

It was a great read, and all of that makes sense.

I'm the opposite of you. I don't care. I don't care about people driving electric, I don't care about you burning oil.
Don't get me wrong: I think we should burn less of that, if not getting rid of it, but contrarily to you I don't hold a grudge against those that still do. I appreciate our society has been built on this (partly), and that it won't go away overnight.

Maybe that's part of an answer for you. I mean, truly, nobody is preventing from doing what you're doing, right? Nobody's stealing your way of life. But yes, you'll be an extinct species in the near future (say, 50 years), but why would you care? You won't be there, and your kids won't hate you for having played along with your era.
Alright, some taxpayer money will go opposite of your personal beliefs. But seriously, isn't that the case for many other public investments you don't really care about? So why does it matter when it comes to EV? It shouldn't. Let go.

Your hatred may be compounded by the profile of EV early adopters. Yes, there are some painfully obsessed people in there, and the cult around Musk is insufferable. That gives your hateful, inner rhetoric substance to mull over. But this is temporary. I'm the living proof these EV go mainstream, and the "extremism" that characterizes early enthusiasts will just get diluted in the mass.


*I'm using "extremism" for lack of a better word. I realize it's too strong, but I'm not a native speaker and sometimes English fails me (or vice versa).

 

[FastDoc]

Thanks for your thoughts Jerome.

I think ICE will be regulated out of existence sooner than that however. Indeed I think my current Benz may be my last ICE car. I plan to keep it about another 10 years at whick point it will be 19 years old. I suspect my next car will be a used EQS or Taycan or eTron GT or iPace. I just wish it was a free market. Let us vote with our wallets and let the better car win. Sincerely, I think electric is better in many ways for most people, just not enthusiasts like myself.

I DO recognize the significant real advantages of EVs. I think about it every time I change my oils, chase an oil leak on my 30 year old Ford, or wait sweating in the leather comfortable chair at the Mercedes dealer to see what a repair would cost. So far, thank God, no repairs yet on the car.

And yes Jerome we all get taxed and pay for things we are against. I get that is just a part of society. My hate is not rational, but talking with you all helps. I also think its good for EV people to hear why so many people are against them as it may help bring us together.

 

[GtiMart]

You are right, it's good for us too. And I sincerely appreciate the nice discussion.

There is a real pressure on governments to reduce pollution, and a lot of that pollution is transportation (including big rigs etc). They are pushing laws towards solutions that are available today, and that is EVs.
It's not to remove pleasure but they have to do something. There are talks of e-fuel that might save ICE cars for a little while.

In terms of fit and finish etc, other manufacturers are building evs and have more experience in that area, and prices will go lower with volume.

 

[FastDoc]

Perhaps another way to understand the view from my side of the fence.

This is pertaining to a town in Australia:

A town in Australia has announced plans to restrict cat ownership to two per household as part of a strict new by-law. From early 2020, cats are banned from being outdoors between 8 p.m. and 7 a.m., officials in Mount Barker, a southern Australian town around 20 miles from Adelaide, said on Wednesday.Sep 5, 2019

As you know there are only two kinds of people in this world. Cat people and dog people. I am the former.

Imagine if the government came for your cats, or dogs. Imagine if your neighbors voted/conspired against you or your beloved pet, even if there are legitimate grievances to be made against cats or dogs. Using this context it's easier to see the anger ICE people sometimes feel towards EV people.

I am trying to get over this negativity and I appreciate your continued input, but wanted to share my thoughts as well.

 

[GtiMart]

Oh.... I forgot. Yes, some ev enthusiasts are as annoying as vegetarians, people in sects etc... I get it. We are not all like that though

 

[FastDoc]

The efuels are interesting, and Porsche is working on them, but frankly I think will be a dead end. Maybe for legacy performance and collector vehicles. Porsche, Ferrari, MB, and the like.

I predict heavy trucks will go hydrogen fuel cell, passenger cars will be split between fuel cell and battery, each having different strengths and weaknesses.

I think shipping and aviation will be fossil fuel based for generations to come.

 

[GtiMart]

The local government came for pitbulls here. After one too many child was bitten gravely by one. Is the best solution to ban them? I don't think so, but how can you force owners to properly train and care for their dog?

 

[FastDoc]

Ironically I'm vegetarian...

 

[GtiMart]

Ok. Do you take any chance you get to convert someone of do you leave free will? I was referring to those that always try to change you and relating those to ev enthusiasts that chastise you for burning fuel. Any extremism is bad in my mind, I prefer to give information and let people decide. That's what I was trying to say, and hopefully I haven't offended you in the process.

 

[Az_Rael]

Also to be frank, I've found Tesla owners to be eco-snobs (I coined a new term perhaps) and in general I don't like liberals or fringe eco-maniacs.

This subset does exist, but there is also a good sized subset of Tesla owners who are “techies” vs eco oriented. I work for a large defense company who’s population trends conservative and my coworkers who are buying Teslas are doing it for the performance and cool tech.

You will find many Tesla owners who do not like Elon, and many who also agree the build quality and customer service have a long way to go. I am looking forward to other manufacturers making lots of EVs so we can have more choice. Personally, I drive an EV for the cool tech, the instant torque and not having to stop at the dang gas station once a week anymore.


I do see the concern with banning ICE cars, since it is such a hot topic right now, and personally I wouldn’t want that either as our desert fun truck is a Tacoma and an EV would not work. I would rather market forces be allowed to sort it out, and I am confident EVs can hold their own in many segments of the car market without government intervention.

 

[CyberGus]

No one is taking the ICE vehicles away. Ever. They will dwindle in number, and eventually gasoline will be hard to come by, but there's no way Americans are gonna let anybody take away their classic cars. Noop.

 

[FastDoc]

Ok. Do you take any chance you get to convert someone of do you leave free will? I was referring to those that always try to change you and relating those to ev enthusiasts that chastise you for burning fuel. Any extremism is bad in my mind, I prefer to give information and let people decide. That's what I was trying to say, and hopefully I haven't offended you in the process.

I believe in free will. I appreciate and respect your point, and appreciate the discourse. Extremism IS bad, and I want to pry myself out of the hole I had inadvertently dug for myself.

 

[FastDoc]

Az,

I do see the concern with banning ICE cars, since it is such a hot topic right now, and personally I wouldn’t want that either as our desert fun truck is a Tacoma and an EV would not work. I would rather market forces be allowed to sort it out, and I am confident EVs can hold their own in many segments of the car market without government intervention.

I agree. It is clear to me, and I consider myself an expert on this, that EVs will will and are superior in many ways. But I still like my type of car. I drove Teslas and liked the acceleration well enough. I am not tech oriented but I am capable of using the immense tech I have to use in my role as a physician and as a pilot, I just don't enjoy it.

 

[FastDoc]

I understand what you are saying Gus. There are still horse people and steam train enthusiasts and black and whit film photographers. There will still be ICE enthusiasts in the future.

However the horse, camera and train people did not have to finance their replacements through tax dollars and legislation. The newer options were genuinely better. If EV's are genuinely better, and they likely are, let them win on their own accord.

 

[FastDoc]

Congratulations to the Tesla fans on the new Plaid. Impressive speed, and in a dollar per HP point of view, well priced. Impressive accomplishment.

 

[CyberGus]

Doc,

It seems like the root of your angst is from the EV incentives, which seem like they are "picking winners and losers". Instead, keep in mind that oil exploration is subsidized, and there are significant barriers to entry for new automakers (analysts have been wailing "Doom! DOOOOM for Telsa" for about 10 years now, up until about 5 minutes ago lol). Dealerships often promote their ICE vehicles over BEV models, as the former will net them greater service income. Public charging infrastructure lags significantly behind the availability of petrol stations. Many states prohibit Tesla's sales model. Without a nudge, all this was unlikely to change, at least not anytime soon.

The incentives are less about giving people discounts, and more about giving enough confidence to automakers to invest the billions required to build a new car model (let alone with new technology).

There are already municipalities considering extra taxes on EVs to offset the loss of gas tax revenue. And even the proposed incentives have a short lifespan. So I just see the incentives as a small investment into a burgeoning market that will eventually stand on its own. Trust me, no one would be buying EVs if they were crappy, incentives or not.

While I now see ICE vehicles as greasy, old, smelly tech, I don't begrudge anyone choosing to drive one. Enjoying the freedom to choose means enjoying the choices of others.

 

[mtndrew1]

My only contribution here is that my tax (and health insurance) dollars are being used to subsidize your love of internal combustion. It’s a two way street in that regard.

If you’re a conservative, EVs allow us to make all of our own energy at home, employ more Americans in non-exportable jobs with the deployment of said energy infrastructure, and use our resources for export and profit instead of for our own motive transport. It also gives our auto industry a brand new opportunity to generate fresh IP for a competitive advantage.

(I also have a Honda motorcycle and an old Ford truck).

Edit: if you’re looking for savory auto execs you’re gonna have trouble there, regardless of automaker.