A sincere effort from a hater to adapt to living in a world with Teslas

[Beasts]

When we say "save the environment", we really mean "save the environment for future generations of the human race". If you don't care about humanity, then the science is irrelevant.

I have no children (that I know of lol) so if the Earth fell into the sun on the day of my funeral, I don't know why I should care.

Wow! We don't have children either but we care about the children of others, the innocents who will suffer for our selfishness as well as all of the other creatures we share this planet with.

 

[cucubits]

Wow! We don't have children either but we care about the children of others, the innocents who will suffer for our selfishness as well as all of the other creatures we share this planet with.

+++1, I just didn't want to waste my time replying to him. Not worth it.

 

[jjrandorin]

+++1, I just didn't want to waste my time replying to him. Not worth it.

(not moderation content. representing no one other than jjrandorin the regular poster)

The entire thread (even the premise) has me wondering why people are engaging in it. We have a person who states they are a doctor and pilot (thus making decisions with peoples health, and lives), who somehow needs "the internet" to get over "hate for a car / car brand".

It doesnt even sound right typing it out, except for trolling, yet people engage anyway.

 

[advocate8]

Good morning NW driver, from a fellow NW driver

Out of respect for the rules of the forum which I believe discourage dissenting opinions to anthropomorphic global warming I'll not reply here but you are welcome to PM me if you wish.

I'll only say that there are many highly educated intelligent thoughtful compassionate people who do not believe that giving up a prosperous lifestyle and/or their car will save the world. I respect the thoughts on both side of the issue, and I appreciate your question.

You’re not giving up your car, you’re giving up a type of car. Two things... your problems with EV/Tesla/government pushing for EVs are generally are tribal, and have little to do with the merits or lack thereof of EVs. Eventually there will be EVs that meet most of your (quite reasonable!) standards for what constitutes a proper vehicle, Except the sound and pollution parts.
Just work on breaking down your tribal affinity. that’s where your solution lies.
Second? EVs are gonna take over, oil is gonna run out. Its just a matter of when and how, not if, and the sooner you get comfortable with that fact, the happier you’ll be.

 

[CyberGus]

Wow! We don't have children either but we care about the children of others, the innocents who will suffer for our selfishness as well as all of the other creatures we share this planet with.

I didn’t claim indifference. I care quite a bit, I just can’t explain why, and certainly can’t explain to anyone else why they should.

 

[CyberGus]

(not moderation content. representing no one other than jjrandorin the regular poster)

The entire thread (even the premise) has me wondering why people are engaging in it. We have a person who states they are a doctor and pilot (thus making decisions with peoples health, and lives), who somehow needs "the internet" to get over "hate for a car / car brand".

It doesnt even sound right typing it out, except for trolling, yet people engage anyway.

Refusing to engage with those of differing opinions is unhealthy.

 

[jjrandorin]

Refusing to engage with those of differing opinions is unhealthy.

"I need help not hating tesla / teslas" is not a "differing opinion".

 

[CyberGus]

"I need help not hating tesla / teslas" is not a "differing opinion".

A refreshing change from the usual “I hate Teslas and I’m proud of it” trolls lol

 

[Beasts]

(not moderation content. representing no one other than jjrandorin the regular poster)

The entire thread (even the premise) has me wondering why people are engaging in it. We have a person who states they are a doctor and pilot (thus making decisions with peoples health, and lives), who somehow needs "the internet" to get over "hate for a car / car brand".

It doesnt even sound right typing it out, except for trolling, yet people engage anyway.

And now he has started another thread asking people to help him decide on an EV that is not a Tesla?!?

 

[jjrandorin]

And now he has started another thread asking people to help him decide on an EV that is not a Tesla?!?

Unlike this thread, I dont see any particular issue with getting opinions on other EVs here. By definition, the membership here is going to be pretty well versed in EVs in general, and likely interested in many different types.

If that post was taken in a vacuum (without this one), it would not even raise an eyebrow.

 

[SilverString]

CO2, global 'warming', and saving the world matter to me not at all.

I will assume you have no children?

 

[Beasts]

Unlike this thread, I dont see any particular issue with getting opinions on other EVs here. By definition, the membership here is going to be pretty well versed in EVs in general, and likely interested in many different types.

If that post was taken in a vacuum (without this one), it would not even raise an eyebrow.

I agree. I should have suggested that we consider both posts before judging but I was wondering why he might be asking such a question today when he doesn't have any plans to purchase for 10 years. So much can and will change. None of my business I guess. No harm in curiosity.

 

[cucubits]

I have no children (that I know of lol) so if the Earth fell into the sun on the day of my funeral, I don't know why I should care.

I didn’t claim indifference. I care quite a bit

These statements sound very contradictory to me. Makes sense you're getting along so well with the OP...

 

[FastDoc]

Don't worry, Musk doesn't get all of the credit. We bought our first Roadster from a Tesla led by Martin Eberhard. Musk was just the moneybags keeping it going. Eberhard is the one who said he would drive through Palo Alto, CA, past the $multi-million mansions (and surprisingly small houses) and see a statistically significantly large number of them with a Prius and a Porsche in the driveways. This supported his own love of fast sports cars but hatred of the damage they do to the economy and ecology. He came up with the idea of an electric sports car after learning of and supporting the addition of Li-ion batteries in AC Propulsion's t-zero. AC Propulsion introduced Musk and Eberhard.
As we all know, the golden rule about who makes the rules, took its course and Martin and Musk unpleasantly split ways. Many of us were concerned and demanded that Musk explain what was happening. Had many of us cancelled our Roadster orders, Tesla would have never happened. Fortunately, Musk called a meeting of us owners, looked us in the eye, and said that he was sticking to the plan. He seemed genuine, we knew something of his stubbornness, and few pulled out.
Fourteen years later, he has continued to keep his promise and here we are. You may not like his personality but he does have integrity and willingness to do what is right as shown by his actions. He could be living the dream on an island or anywhere else if he wanted.

No question he is an awesome businessman. I'm not sure how much of an engineer or a humanitarian he is based on his actions but I respect his ablilty to build a company and make a lot of cars and a lot of money for a lot of people. Indeed, despite my feeling for the man, he is helping build my retirement savings. First by making money shorting him, lately by investing.

 

[FastDoc]

FastDoc, I am confused. For someone with your education, your accomplishments as a doctor, a pilot, a bicyclist, an investor, etc. to be able to show so little concern about the deterioration of our environment is difficult to comprehend. I do have only a bachelors in biology and little to show for it but I feel that I am capable of following the science of air pollution, water pollution, habitat destruction, chemical pollution and all of the other human contributions to the degradation of the health of the ecosystem on which all of us ultimately depend. The scientists with the training and responsibility for analyzing these parameters are, by a vast majority, convinced that the situation is dire. And yet you, almost casually, dismiss it as nothing you need be concerned about. It isn't just about ICE versus EV. It's about the very many ways that we pollute without a second thought. I like to think that I am contributing to the health and well being of generations to come. I suppose you might call me an environmental "fanatic" but I would prefer realist. My wife and I choose to incorporate positive environmental factors into our lifestyle and it's not an effort, we feel good about it.

Thanks for your thoughtful message.

Predictably, its more complicated.

I am an avid outdoorsman who enjoys God's Creation and sees Him in His Creation. I camp, hike, cycle and paddle all over the country and appreciate a clear cold stream and warm sunshine on my face and the cold clean air on top of Mt. Shasta, Mt. Hood, Mt. Lassen, Mt Adams, Mt. St, Helens, and other mountains I have climbed.

With that said I don't believe that chasing CO2 is important, nor do I believe it is worth the investment, cost to the economy, or lifestyle changes. I also do not believe that the Earth is all there is. To me it is a waypoint and God wants us to enjoy it, and care for it, but not to get too comfortable with it as it is not our true Home.

 

[FastDoc]

When we say "save the environment", we really mean "save the environment for future generations of the human race". If you don't care about humanity, then the science is irrelevant.

I have no children (that I know of lol) so if the Earth fell into the sun on the day of my funeral, I don't know why I should care.

I see your point, Gus.

I also have no children, but I do have a soon to be step daughter who I love. I'm sure the earth will be here as long as she is.

Like our parents likely would have said about us, she is resilient, she will survive.

 

[FastDoc]

I agree. I should have suggested that we consider both posts before judging but I was wondering why he might be asking such a question today when he doesn't have any plans to purchase for 10 years. So much can and will change. None of my business I guess. No harm in curiosity.

You all have softened my opinion about Teslas a lot. You have been helpful to me.

 

[FastDoc]

I'm going to be in San Diego and SLO for a few days each next week for a medical conference and real estate shopping.

There are no Tesla outlets in my area of Washington.

I'd like to test drive one or two when I'm down there.

Was thinking a Model S and a Model Y.

I've driven the S and a 3 before.

Any other suggestions?

 

[mangrove79]

Predictably, its more complicated.

I am an avid outdoorsman who enjoys God's Creation and sees Him in His Creation...I also do not believe that the Earth is all there is. To me it is a waypoint and God wants us to enjoy it, and care for it, but not to get too comfortable with it as it is not our true Home.

When that little 3-letter word comes into any discussion involving science, you know that's the end of it. Everyone can stop wasting your time to inquire, question, or argue against the OP's position on the environment because you know it's a losing battle. Anything that's infallible doesn't belong in the realm of science or reason.

 

[Beasts]

I keep thinking how pleasant it would be to have an in person one on one conversation with others who have opinions different from our own. A civil, respectful exchange of ideas. But I never envisioned a situation in which we shared different sets of "facts." Not that differing sets of facts are so relevant to this thread. Discussions like this one are definitely helpful but I'm hungry for the face to face arguments I remember from college, decades ago, where you could go out for a beer together afterward, no hard feelings. It's just the idea of actually having the opportunity to read the face and emotions of the other person and have the opportunity to know them more completely. Too much anger today, at least in our neighborhood, to do much of that. Sad.
I apologize for going a little off topic.