A Tesla Owner's Goodbye

[Eclectic]

Well, we are now a Tesla free household for the first time in 5 years.

As early adopters, we took risks in buying a Model S and overall, I leave the fold very impressed. Teslas are smart cars in many ways and we actually never had any problems with either of our Teslas.

In the end, there were a number of things about Teslas that just didn't work for us.

Road noise was always a problem. Long distance travel in rural areas was a problem. The spartan interior and lack of luxury features was a problem. The fact that Musk promised us a lot more than we got when we were one of the first to put an order in for a P85D was definitely a problem. I could go on, but I know most people here are not interested in criticism of the brand, and that's fine by me.

The reason for getting rid of the P85D was actually pretty basic...it turns out that my wife is going to have to commute in the Bay Area for longer than she expected (at least another year) and with the HOV stickers expiring next month she wanted to find a way to get the new HOV sticker on a car. Plus, the warranty on the P85D expires at the end of this month (or thereabout), and while we were lucky to have a trouble free car to this point, we just didn't want to push our luck.

As it turns out the value of our P85D was pretty close to the cost of a new BMW 530e, and with the federal tax bribe we were able to buy a 2019 BMW for almost no money out of pocket. The BMW is a much more comfortable vehicle, much quieter and the option to run on gasoline is a great plus for when we are in Montana or other areas with fewer charging options. Yeah, we won't be able to do insane mode launches anymore, but honestly, that was a trick that got stale pretty quick. The BMW has very good acceleration and excellent handling, so we think we are ending up with a much more well rounded vehicle.

I still like Tesla, admire how much Musk has done in such a short period of time, and am not opposed to considering another EV in the future. For today, though, it just wasn't the right mix for us.

 

[CoastalCruiser]

Thanx for sharing your story. No matter what anyone says, you were in there early, and no one can ever take that away from you.

 

[suwaneedad]

Great writeup. See you again soon, once that BMW is beyond its warranty and eating your wallet alive.
Til then, happy trails!

 

[roblab]

Well, personally, I prefer the 3 over the BMW. I'm enough of an early adopter (#000064) that I would make the 3, or even my S, work. Interesting that you need more interior frills, and that you need performance. My 3 beats most everything around, and the S takes care of the rest, but I wouldn't race the Maseratis and the Jaguars around here even with performance. I would imagine your new Beemer cost about what a 3 costs, and gasoline will eat the rest. I recommend solar panels for your home, now that your good car is gone.

You knew some of us were die hard Tesla fans when you posted here, right?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Tesla really only has two vehicles so it's hard to satisfy the needs/wants of everyone with those 2 vehicles. I don't count the X as a separate vehicle as it's really a taller S.

Personally I'm concerned that the Y won't really be the Subaru like contender I hope it will be. For now I'm happy with the 3, but I'm looking for something more utilitarian. Although I would like a quieter interior. I'm not sure what Elon/Tesla has against a quiet interior.

Did you get the Driving Assistant Plus?

 

[Eclectic]

Tesla really only has two vehicles so it's hard to satisfy the needs/wants of everyone with those 2 vehicles. I don't count the X as a separate vehicle as it's really a taller S.

Personally I'm concerned that the Y won't really be the Subaru like contender I hope it will be. For now I'm happy with the 3, but I'm looking for something more utilitarian. Although I would like a quieter interior. I'm not sure what Elon/Tesla has against a quiet interior.

Did you get the Driving Assistant Plus?

Yep, got all of the driving assists. BMW separates the assists into separate packages but we got a car with all of them.

Funny you mention Subaru, as we also bought a Subaru Outback a few months ago for our home in Montana. I can't imagine the Y being competition for it in cold and rural climates, where Subaru has such a huge base. I also don't really understand why people who live in moderate climates or urban areas get Subarus, but rationality is not a requirement for buying vehicles...

 

[ons_]

Buying a Subaru because it's a safe vehicle seems pretty rational to me.

 

[jjrandorin]

Yep, got all of the driving assists. BMW separates the assists into separate packages but we got a car with all of them.

Funny you mention Subaru, as we also bought a Subaru Outback a few months ago for our home in Montana. I can't imagine the Y being competition for it in cold and rural climates, where Subaru has such a huge base. I also don't really understand why people who live in moderate climates or urban areas get Subarus, but rationality is not a requirement for buying vehicles...

I love BMWs... drove them for about the last 12 years, as a 2 BMW household. I am going the other way, from a BMW 435 to a Tesla Model 3 performance. I have a lot of respect for those of you who jumped in with both feet in the beginning. I was not that brave, and I could not afford the tesla I wanted at the time.

Even a Model 3 performance with EAP is not the price of a Model S with air suspension ,and engine options, so there is that. There is definitely a difference in luxury in the two brands, thats for SURE. I actually am getting used to the spartan interior of the model 3 vs my 435 (and 5 series are a different animal altogether). I could have gotten a 540 for what I spent on the model 3 P but I felt the time was right for me to jump in now.

OP, without those of you who jumped in first and made it even possible for tesla to survive this long, I would not have considered or been able to get this Model 3 Performance, so... thank you.

Thank you for taking a chance back then, and thank you for toughing it out. I am new to tesla's but not BMWs (we will still have a BMW in the family as my wife is getting a new X3 M40i to replace her X5D. If you are new to BMWs feel free to reach out as I know a decent amount about them.

I imagine you have a lot of info about tesla, and just as I am still a frequent poster over at a couple of bmw forums, I hope that those of you early adopters who opt out right now stick around and share tips / tricks etc.

Good luck with the 530e! Its a nice car, it really is. It cost more to operate long term than the tesla, but.. you drive to montana so I can not even imagine owning a tesla and having to deal with that.

Much respect.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Yep, got all of the driving assists. BMW separates the assists into separate packages but we got a car with all of them.

Funny you mention Subaru, as we also bought a Subaru Outback a few months ago for our home in Montana. I can't imagine the Y being competition for it in cold and rural climates, where Subaru has such a huge base. I also don't really understand why people who live in moderate climates or urban areas get Subarus, but rationality is not a requirement for buying vehicles...

They're all over the place in the PNW, but I understand it.

It's durable
It's goes anywhere
It's all-wheel-drive.
It's crossover'ish
They have decent gas mileage.

Having a Model Y that was an EV while also hitting the boxes of wants from most Subaru owners would sell like hot-cakes in the PNW.

Instead everything from Tesla simply says "Hey, I'm from California"

 

[Evoforce]

I laugh! You are not gone... You are testing the greener grass back on the other side. See you back on this side of the pasture in the near future. Charging infrastructure will improve in the near term and you will also miss driving the superior Tesla after the newness of your BMW wears off. See ya back on the flip side!

 

[ba2002]

Agree with road noise and luxury comforts.

My S with SAS was passable.

I find the 3 noise/ride borderline annoying. It's really only pleasant on well maintained roads and it always sounds like a window is down.

Probably would not buy again.

 

[NeverFollow]

A Tesla Owner's Goodbye

@Eclectic I was thinking that you were going to get a i-Pace to replace your aging and memorable P85D.
Jaguar Delivers First I-PACE In U.S. – Owner Not A Fan Of Tesla’s Style

I understand the current lack of Tesla Supercharger in Montana.
Montana Road Trip

But I don't understand the rational of making Hybrid-Plug-In vehicles.

1. To have an Hybrid to be able to run purely on electrons,
you need to replace a lot of hardware already existing on an ICE car
by the equivalent device running using electricity, such as:

- Power steering needs to use an electric motor.
- Power brakes assistance needs to use a vacuum electric pump.
- Air conditioning requires the use of an electric compressor.
- Cabin heater need to use electricity.
...
All of the above systems are already running 'for free' on an ICE vehicle.
So you need to add a lot of complexity for getting the same result.

2. What really the purpose to have a Plug-in for such a small battery.
The adding cost and complexity for installing a plug, a charger,
while there is already a regenerative braking system,
and the range limitation for such a small battery is not worth the complexity,
and will basically never pay back the additional cost.

3. Hybrids is already a technology from the past with the current evolution and lower cost of batteries
But going back to an ICE, especially if you already have the possibility to charge at home, seems back ward.

Plug In Hybrids Are like Amphibians and Frogs Says Tesla Founder

Conclusion: All the cost and complexity for making a Plug-In-Hybrid over a basic ICE, IMO, is worthless.
A Plug-In-Hybrid is already a pure EV, so get ride of the ICE engine and put more battery instead.

I would stay electric and get an EV for my local use, so you still get the HOV sticker,
and get (or rent) an ICE, not an hybrid or a Plug-In-Hybrid, for my long commute in Montana.

Eventually, Montana will get more Superchargers, EVs will get even more range, and EVs choices are increasing quickly.

 

[Eclectic]

@Eclectic I was thinking that you were going to get a i-Pace to replace your aging and memorable P85D.
Jaguar Delivers First I-PACE In U.S. – Owner Not A Fan Of Tesla’s Style

I understand the current lack of Tesla Supercharger in Montana.
Montana Road Trip

But I don't understand the rational of making Hybrid-Plug-In vehicles.

1. To have an Hybrid to be able to run purely on electrons,
you need to replace a lot of hardware already existing on an ICE car
by the equivalent device running using electricity, such as:

- Power steering needs to use an electric motor.
- Power brakes assistance needs to use a vacuum electric pump.
- Air conditioning requires the use of an electric compressor.
- Cabin heater need to use electricity.
...
All of the above systems are already running 'for free' on an ICE vehicle.
So you need to add a lot of complexity for getting the same result.

2. What really the purpose to have a Plug-in for such a small battery.
The adding cost and complexity for installing a plug, a charger,
while there is already a regenerative braking system,
and the range limitation for such a small battery is not worth the complexity,
and will basically never pay back the additional cost.

3. Hybrids is already a technology from the past with the current evolution and lower cost of batteries
But going back to an ICE, especially if you already have the possibility to charge at home, seems back ward.

Plug In Hybrids Are like Amphibians and Frogs Says Tesla Founder

Conclusion: All the cost and complexity for making a Plug-In-Hybrid over a basic ICE, IMO, is worthless.
A Plug-In-Hybrid is already a pure EV, so get ride of the ICE engine and put more battery instead.

I would stay electric and get an EV for my local use, so you still get the HOV sticker,
and get (or rent) an ICE, not an hybrid or a Plug-In-Hybrid, for my long commute in Montana.

Eventually, Montana will get more Superchargers, EVs will get even more range, and EVs choices are increasing quickly.

The thing is that I live in today, not in some future time of maybes or mights. We traded in our P85D and got a brand new BMW 5 series with no money out of pocket after the tax kickbacks. The BMW gets 40+ mpg, is exceedingly comfortable, very quiet and has great handling. Plus it is a fun car to drive. Also, I usually don't take breaks more than once every 5 or so hours when driving long distance, and that's something an EV can't do.

I have no idea why you think a plug in hybrid is more expensive than an ICE. Take a look at BMW's website. The plug in hybrid is within a few hundred dollars of the ICE version and after the tax kickbacks and PG&E credit, it's thousands cheaper.

Finally, perhaps you should read my initial post. We wanted the new HOV sticker. Ice doesn't get us there.

 

[NeverFollow]

The thing is that I live in today, not in some future time of maybes or might's.

@Eclectic, thank you for following up. Yes, still today there isn't to many possibilities beside Tesla.

We traded in our P85D and got a brand new BMW 5 series with no money out of pocket after the tax kickbacks.
The BMW gets 40+ mpg, is exceedingly comfortable, very quiet and has great handling. Plus it is a fun car to drive.
Also, I usually don't take breaks more than once every 5 or so hours when driving long distance, and that's something an EV can't do.

Honestly I understand your situation and agree and congratulate on your choice of getting this great new car.

Also I really don't have enough context information about your commute distance and how often and for how long you go and stay in Montana.

Finally, perhaps you should read my initial post. We wanted the new HOV sticker. Ice doesn't get us there.

I have some relatives in Midwest so I'm a little bit in your situation.

In my case, I use an EV for my local use, so I still get the HOV sticker, and I rent an ICE during my trip in the Midwest.

In general I rent an Audi Q5 from Silvercar, but I used also some other program from BMW and MB.

I have no idea why you think a plug in hybrid is more expensive than an ICE. Take a look at BMW's website.
The plug in hybrid is within a few hundred dollars of the ICE version and after the tax kickbacks and PG&E credit, it's thousands cheaper.

Well, the BMW Hybrids have a 4 cylinders engine with performances by itself similar to a VW Passat engine.
But with the addition of an electric engine, you get the performance of a 6 cylinder.

If you plan to keep your Plug-In-Hybrid, I am worrisome about the added complexity and reliability. I think that an EV is more simple.

"The KISS principle is best exemplified by the story of Johnson handing a team of design engineers a handful of tools,
with the challenge that the jet aircraft they were designing must be repairable by an average mechanic in the field
under combat conditions with only these tools.
Hence, the "stupid" refers to the relationship between the way things break and the sophistication available to repair them."

 

[SO16]

I look forward to another update from the OP in 5 years.

 

[acoste]

1. To have an Hybrid to be able to run purely on electrons,
you need to replace a lot of hardware already existing on an ICE car
by the equivalent device running using electricity, such as:

- Power steering needs to use an electric motor.
- Power brakes assistance needs to use a vacuum electric pump.
- Air conditioning requires the use of an electric compressor.
- Cabin heater need to use electricity.
...
All of the above systems are already running 'for free' on an ICE vehicle.
So you need to add a lot of complexity for getting the same result.

Most cars have electric power steering today. BMW had electric power steering and electric vacuum pump in the previous generation with no PHEV. There was also an electric heater in the diesel models.

2. What really the purpose to have a Plug-in for such a small battery.
The adding cost and complexity for installing a plug, a charger,
while there is already a regenerative braking system,
and the range limitation for such a small battery is not worth the complexity,
and will basically never pay back the additional cost.

It is excellent for people who can cover their short commute with electricity and still have gasoline car for the weekend trips.
Regen is a great plus. And the HOV sticker. No range issues in cold. And no need for careful trip planning. Plan changes are easy. No vampire drain worry at airport parking.

3. Hybrids is already a technology from the past with the current evolution and lower cost of batteries
But going back to an ICE, especially if you already have the possibility to charge at home, seems back ward.

Not everyone thinks so. Honda and Toyota are still avoiding Lithium ion batteries.
BMW is building a platform which can accommodate both ICE and EV power train (iNext). So they can quickly react to any market changes (means they aren't sure Li ion is the - short term - future)

"Japanese automakers, in particular, (with the notable exception of Nissan) have been skeptical of using lithium-ion technology and have focused instead on fuel cells. Several executives and engineers at Japanese automakers have said that they are waiting for the next big breakthrough in batteries beyond lithium-ion before beginning the transition to electric cars."

Honda presents new battery chemistry that could succeed lithium-ion

 

[dethman]

Congrats on finding the car that works for you.

 

[djplong]

You know, even if I had some of the same motivations as the OP, I could never go back to ICE.

I would never buy a BMW, even if it DID end up being almost nothing out of pocket because of all the OTHER stuff.

It's not just ICE vs. EV to me anymore. It's sleazy dealer versus fixed-price. It's lying mechanic vs. thousands fewer parts. It's never having another $1000 catalytic converter go south. It's never having to replace a blown head gasket, fuel pump, gas tank, fuel filter, valves, camshaft, distributor cap, clutch plate, pressure pad, fuel injector, motor mount, gearshift cable, MAP sensor, muffler and more. It's never having a wiring harness put too close to the exhaust manifold and melting the wires and having the dealership tell you that your brand new (1989) $30,000 car can't be fixed despite the fact that it's under a 100K-mile ZERO DEDUCTIBLE warranty that you paid extra for.

It's never having "rust proofing" or "dealer demand adjustment" or "scotchguarding" or any number of other bogus charges being added to my car.

It's about never having to hear "I have to check with my manager" again - as if they haven't ever sold a car before and don't know what they can and can't do.

It's about free updates versus a couple of hundred dollars to update the maps in the car.

And that's all before I get to it being between poisoning the planet even more versus putting my money where my mouth is and trying to leave something better to my kids.

 

[doctoxics]

Not everyone thinks so. Honda and Toyota are still avoiding Lithium ion batteries.
BMW is building a platform which can accommodate both ICE and EV power train (iNext). So they can quickly react to any market changes (means they aren't sure Li ion is the - short term - future)

"Japanese automakers, in particular, (with the notable exception of Nissan) have been skeptical of using lithium-ion technology and have focused instead on fuel cells. Several executives and engineers at Japanese automakers have said that they are waiting for the next big breakthrough in batteries beyond lithium-ion before beginning the transition to electric cars.

A $5 billion project going nowhere designed to keep ICE cars alive and appease regulatory agencies.

 

[acoste]

A $5 billion project going nowhere designed to keep ICE cars alive and appease regulatory agencies.

Keep in mind that there are developments on ICE cars that may achieve better emissions than EV cars (as long as coal powered stations exist). So the future is not as clear as you think. Ex-Porsche CEO tries to save combustion engine from scrap heap