A yoke or a joke?

[Sbaimo]

Well Elon said there will be no option for a round
Steering wheel in the future. So love it or
Leave it.

I have gotten used to the yoke. No problem getting around. But I do notice that I need to pay more attention to my driving. The good
Is that my mind doesn’t wander off.
The bad is that driving with the yoke doesn’t seem to allow me to relax but hopefully that is just a matter of time to get used to it.

 

[wooter]

I just can't comprehend the thinking behind it.
I cannot see any advantages except - perhaps for some people - visibility of the IC.
Surely changing anything that works well for something new must be done because the new model is better - and it patently is not in this case. I don't think anyone says it is - plenty say you "get used to it", which is not the same.

Are these not just the same arguments for buttons instead of a touchscreen, or a big gear shifter instead of stalks?

I see that the yoke has multiple advantages:
- forces a correct 9 to 3 hand position
- wider base allows for easier one hand steering assistance while on autopilot
- better visibility of front screen
- buttons allow for easier access to controls while steering *and* while on autopilot

Compare that to a classic steering wheel:
- muscle memory of using round wheel
- not so picky on hand position

So what are the disadvantages of a yoke?
- no muscle memory
- forces 9 to 3 hand position if you’re really keen on suboptimal steering

And the disadvantages of a classic wheel?
- stalks behind the wheel, requiring a long hand travel distance to control when on autopilot
- supports suboptimal steering

 

[Darmie]

Seen a new refreshed last week at the service center with the new yoke. It looks awesome. Maybe my mind things it's the new different and you know you want it. I can't wait to give it a try.

 

[TessP100D]

Well Elon said there will be no option for a round
Steering wheel in the future. So love it or
Leave it.

I have gotten used to the yoke. No problem getting around. But I do notice that I need to pay more attention to my driving. The good
Is that my mind doesn’t wander off.
The bad is that driving with the yoke doesn’t seem to allow me to relax but hopefully that is just a matter of time to get used to it.

Yea after spending over 100,000 on a car, now you need to get used to it. Or accept it. Or whatever.
come-on man—— the yoke is just stupid.
If Crazy Elon doesn’t snap,out of it I’m never buyer another Tesla. And I’m sure I’m not alone.

 

[wooter]

If Crazy Elon doesn’t snap,out of it I’m never buyer another Tesla. And I’m sure I’m not alone.

Prices of even preowned Tesla's are going crazy, and they're delivering all they can build. So no, I don't think Elon will feel bad about missing out on that one sale.

Maybe my mind things it's the new different and you know you want it. I can't wait to give it a try.

Yeah I'm also very much on the forefront of let's try new stuff. So my opinions are biased.

Also, I think the preview of MKBHD shows the pro's and cons and I think the yoke and buttons itself are not that much of a problem, but the fact that they're not really buttons but more of a haptic feedback thing might be a nuisance.

But then again, I'm a happy user of an Apple Magic Trackpad 2 and I only notice the tactic feedback when the battery's out and the feedback is missing.

 

[Darmie]

Yea after spending over 100,000 on a car, now you need to get used to it. Or accept it. Or whatever.
come-on man—— the yoke is just stupid.
If Crazy Elon doesn’t snap,out of it I’m never buyer another Tesla. And I’m sure I’m not alone.

I don't think the S/X carries the fleet. With the launch delay, the 3/Y is what's selling the most. This could be the reason Elon is experimenting with the yoke.

 

[Wol747]

>>If Crazy Elon doesn’t snap,out of it.......<<

The telling word is "crazy". He may be super-intelligent but he doesn't appear bright enough to understand that he's running a commercial business that must support his customers to be a long-term company. Yes, Tesla can struggle to satisfy present demand for the cars, but buyers tend to want a long term commitment for purchases that have lifetimes counted in decades, not to worry that spares won't be available in five years time because the boss has lost interest and gone on to another interesting project.
To be clear, I'm not anti-Tesla at all - I sank a lot of money into my car - and I hope Musk continues with the drive towards sustainable energy, but looking at the unfinished business of the Model S software (not FSD, but the mundane things like the UI, lights, wipers etc) does make me wonder about the company's commitment to its fanbase.

 

[wooter]

Gary Black was sharing some insights on the yoke, even if he is of the opinion that it'll risk cancelled orders.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1419115074430590976

https://twitter.com/x/status/1418934754230083584

 

[smetho]

Are these not just the same arguments for buttons instead of a touchscreen, or a big gear shifter instead of stalks?

I see that the yoke has multiple advantages:
- forces a correct 9 to 3 hand position
- wider base allows for easier one hand steering assistance while on autopilot
- better visibility of front screen
- buttons allow for easier access to controls while steering *and* while on autopilot

Compare that to a classic steering wheel:
- muscle memory of using round wheel
- not so picky on hand position

So what are the disadvantages of a yoke?
- no muscle memory
- forces 9 to 3 hand position if you’re really keen on suboptimal steering

And the disadvantages of a classic wheel?
- stalks behind the wheel, requiring a long hand travel distance to control when on autopilot

Are these not just the same arguments for buttons instead of a touchscreen, or a big gear shifter instead of stalks?

I see that the yoke has multiple advantages:
- forces a correct 9 to 3 hand position
- wider base allows for easier one hand steering assistance while on autopilot
- better visibility of front screen
- buttons allow for easier access to controls while steering *and* while on autopilot

Compare that to a classic steering wheel:
- muscle memory of using round wheel
- not so picky on hand position

So what are the disadvantages of a yoke?
- no muscle memory
- forces 9 to 3 hand position if you’re really keen on suboptimal steering

And the disadvantages of a classic wheel?
- stalks behind the wheel, requiring a long hand travel distance to control when on autopilot
- supports suboptimal steering

Stalks behind the wheel is an advantage, 100%. It means you know where your indicator is while turning. No way you'll find those small buttons, or at least the correct one, when blinking in / out of roundabouts. This alone will make new S&X problematic in most of Europe.

 

[wooter]

Stalks behind the wheel is an advantage, 100%. It means you know where your indicator is while turning. No way you'll find those small buttons, or at least the correct one, when blinking in / out of roundabouts. This alone will make new S&X problematic in most of Europe.

Stalks in the Model 3/Y are always centered, so there's no advantage anymore.

Good thing you mention the roundabout things. Those are the cases where my left hand would be down on the wheel because I'd be steering left to go around the roundabout, and have to move my hand higher to flip the indicator stalk the other way, up. I've been playing ETS2 during COVID and this with a Logitec G25 wheel, and buttons for indicators make way more sense.

 

[TessP100D]

Gary Black was sharing some insights on the yoke, even if he is of the opinion that it'll risk cancelled orders.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1419115074430590976

https://twitter.com/x/status/1418934754230083584

BS. The yoke sucks and people really hate it.

 

[vapor trail]

These arguments for the yoke and losing stalks don't hold up. There's a lot of rationalizing going on here to justify the changes. It's not a question of whether is better to not have gear selectors available or if confining turn signals and the horn to tiny buttons is a BETTER option. It's more of whether or not one is willing to live with it (and an otherwise absolutely amazing car).

 

[TessP100D]

These arguments for the yoke and losing stalks don't hold up. There's a lot of rationalizing going on here to justify the changes. It's not a question of whether is better to not have gear selectors available or if confining turn signals and the horn to tiny buttons is a BETTER option. It's more of whether or not one is willing to live with it (and an otherwise absolutely amazing car).

I agree, and I’m not willing to sacrifice anything with my Safety. Until Crazy Elon backtracks, I’m out.

 

[feckman]

Just picked up our Model S Plaid yesterday and have about 300 miles with the yoke. My opinion thusfar: it is utterly stupid at best and really, really dangerous at worst. It is awkward in general and downright difficult to use in any position past 90 degrees in either direction. That clumsiness translates to driver inattention and hesitancy which could easily result in an accident. It has not gotten better over 300 miles of driving so far. I expect it will, but it will never be "better" than a wheel. Elon Musk romanticizing the Knight Industries Two Thousand is dangerous for everyone. Someone really should have told the emperor he wasn't wearing any clothes on this one. Hopefully, NHTSA will do so and Tesla will be forced to replace this abomination with a real steering wheel. It will make everyone on the road safer.

The elimination of stalks is equally stupid/dangerous. Buttons for everything are clumsy and having to take your eyes off the road to find and use them is absurd. The directionals are annoying but I think I can get used to them over time. Lesser-used buttons will be more problematic. Imagine seeing a deer about to jump into the road and then having to look down at the stupid-ass steering yoke to find the tiny little horn button (which isn't actually a button but more of a "spot" on the yoke). Moronic. Both the yoke and the removal of the stalks are solutions in search of problems.

I am regularly shocked at just how incompetent even basic Autopilot is, let alone full self-driving -- but at least customers can opt out of that. Eliminating stalks and forcing a yoke on people who want them (and at the expense of safety) seems like a cynical gambit to generate acceptance of a system that is nowhere near and may never be truly viable.

It is not enough of an issue to prevent me and many others from buying an otherwise remarkable car, but I personally did so in spite of these decisions and not because of them. Seeing and using them in real life made me realize just how inconvenient and dangerous they really are. It could also be the type of thing that will prevent truly widespread acceptance of Tesla's cars and fundamentally undermine their market position over time. If they ever add this thing to the 3/Y, I think they'll sink like a stone. And that would really be too bad.

 

[Wol747]

I think the majority of yoke “accepters” (as opposed to “likers”) will be in the US.
I used to live in Fl and remember the outcry when the first roundabouts were introduce; ”how could anyone understand how to negotiate them” etc. I’ve just looked at the Fl road rules and can’t find any instructions about indicating on them. But outside the US the rules on indicating are quite specific and require indicators to be used often when the wheel is being turned from a large lock one way to the other.
(Leaving aside that here in Australia 9 out of 10 drivers don’t indicate leaving, which causes crashes and slows traffic)
When the rules are followed a stalkless yoke is at best a hindrance, however Jet Pilot it may appear.

 

[FunSecured]

I have a Refreshed LR S and I’m a 1,000% fan of the Yoke.

The turn indicators are easier and more intuitive than turn stalks. You don’t have to pull either of your hands off the wheel to activate (like you do with a traditional wheel) it’s literally a thumb movement over a few degrees wherein the ONLy part of your body that is moving is the thumb. Great!

Similarly, other elements on the Yoke, like the horn or microphone or wipers simply take a short re-train of your mind map…that in my experience…doesn’t take long at all.

Being able to see the viewing screen, unencumbered (compared to having to always look under or over or through the rounded wheel) is pure joy and function.

In regular driving conditions, I find the feel and function of the Yoke actually superior to that of a rounded wheel.

Particularly so, at greater freeway situations and speeds.

On surface streets the VAST majority of the time, turns do not require any more than a 25, 45, up to 90 degree angle…which doesn’t require ANY special movement(s) and is accomplished with your hands arms not having to shift -anything.-

In situations where you’re…say..at slow speed and doing something like a u-turn (a 180 degree movement), whether your hand over hand or using a finger on the lipped area of the Yoke or using a palm as some so on a rounded wheel…all…work! (it just requires a baby learning curve over first days, that becomes completely ingrained and comfortable/functional over time. That’s it.

For me the benefits and looks of the Yoke far out weight any negatives and things like the turn indicators (over time) become truly more functional/easy/less effort than a traditional turn stalk and things like activating and de-activating FSD (compared to older models or the 3 or Y with the Stalk) is Fantastic and just…Better!

I wouldn’t want anything -But- a Yoke at this point.

 

[TessP100D]

Just picked up our Model S Plaid yesterday and have about 300 miles with the yoke. My opinion thusfar: it is utterly stupid at best and really, really dangerous at worst. It is awkward in general and downright difficult to use in any position past 90 degrees in either direction. That clumsiness translates to driver inattention and hesitancy which could easily result in an accident. It has not gotten better over 300 miles of driving so far. I expect it will, but it will never be "better" than a wheel. Elon Musk romanticizing the Knight Industries Two Thousand is dangerous for everyone. Someone really should have told the emperor he wasn't wearing any clothes on this one. Hopefully, NHTSA will do so and Tesla will be forced to replace this abomination with a real steering wheel. It will make everyone on the road safer.

The elimination of stalks is equally stupid/dangerous. Buttons for everything are clumsy and having to take your eyes off the road to find and use them is absurd. The directionals are annoying but I think I can get used to them over time. Lesser-used buttons will be more problematic. Imagine seeing a deer about to jump into the road and then having to look down at the stupid-ass steering yoke to find the tiny little horn button (which isn't actually a button but more of a "spot" on the yoke). Moronic. Both the yoke and the removal of the stalks are solutions in search of problems.

I am regularly shocked at just how incompetent even basic Autopilot is, let alone full self-driving -- but at least customers can opt out of that. Eliminating stalks and forcing a yoke on people who want them (and at the expense of safety) seems like a cynical gambit to generate acceptance of a system that is nowhere near and may never be truly viable.

It is not enough of an issue to prevent me and many others from buying an otherwise remarkable car, but I personally did so in spite of these decisions and not because of them. Seeing and using them in real life made me realize just how inconvenient and dangerous they really are. It could also be the type of thing that will prevent truly widespread acceptance of Tesla's cars and fundamentally undermine their market position over time. If they ever add this thing to the 3/Y, I think they'll sink like a stone. And that would really be too bad.

Wow. An honest appraisal. Thank you.

 

[TessP100D]

I have a Refreshed LR S and I’m a 1,000% fan of the Yoke.

The turn indicators are easier and more intuitive than turn stalks. You don’t have to pull either of your hands off the wheel to activate (like you do with a traditional wheel) it’s literally a thumb movement over a few degrees wherein the ONLy part of your body that is moving is the thumb. Great!

Similarly, other elements on the Yoke, like the horn or microphone or wipers simply take a short re-train of your mind map…that in my experience…doesn’t take long at all.

Being able to see the viewing screen, unencumbered (compared to having to always look under or over or through the rounded wheel) is pure joy and function.

In regular driving conditions, I find the feel and function of the Yoke actually superior to that of a rounded wheel.

Particularly so, at greater freeway situations and speeds.

On surface streets the VAST majority of the time, turns do not require any more than a 25, 45, up to 90 degree angle…which doesn’t require ANY special movement(s) and is accomplished with your hands arms not having to shift -anything.-

In situations where you’re…say..at slow speed and doing something like a u-turn (a 180 degree movement), whether your hand over hand or using a finger on the lipped area of the Yoke or using a palm as some so on a rounded wheel…all…work! (it just requires a baby learning curve over first days, that becomes completely ingrained and comfortable/functional over time. That’s it.

For me the benefits and looks of the Yoke far out weight any negatives and things like the turn indicators (over time) become truly more functional/easy/less effort than a traditional turn stalk and things like activating and de-activating FSD (compared to older models or the 3 or Y with the Stalk) is Fantastic and just…Better!

I wouldn’t want anything -But- a Yoke at this point.

Ya sure. Total BS

 

[ucmndd]

Ya sure. Total BS

Nah, I’m sure they believe everything they just said wholeheartedly. Confirmation bias is a powerful force.

 

[st_o_p]

Tesla will lose 10s of 1000s of orders of Model S if it forces everyone to buy it with a yoke (along with the other "improvements" - the horn being a tiny button and the blinkers too). That's a simple fact. I'm sure it won't stop them from doing it. After all - how long did it take Apple to put a right button on their mouse - 10-15 years?? Once the "visionaries" are in control - things don't have to make sense.

I personally will never buy one, and I'm sure I'm not alone. The yoke just makes it 100% certain, on top of all else. I had such high hopes for the S redesign - and it turned out to be complete disappointment.