TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

AAA FUD: Winter Driving Range

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by SageBrush, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    6,948
    Location:
    Colorado
    These morons report that EVs lose 40-50% of range in 25F ambient condtions
    https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/AAA-Electric-Vehicle-Range-Testing-Report.pdf

    Read the method (my bolding) to see what they had to do to achieve their results:
     
    • Disagree x 5
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1
  2. Arpe

    Arpe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Denmark
    Well, they are right if the trip is below 10 miles :)

    But surely they will not make a note about this.
     
    • Like x 2
  3. ricohman

    ricohman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Saskatchewan
    25F?
    That's what they call winter? Hahaha!
     
    • Like x 2
    • Funny x 2
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    6,948
    Location:
    Colorado
    Yeah.

    Their protocol may be a reasonable efficiency test of a daily winter commute with a stop at McDonalds but it has nothing to do with a trip where range comes into play.
     
    • Like x 5
    • Disagree x 2
  5. Nate977p

    Nate977p Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Boston
    I can't say my real world is far off... And this is for drives over 25 miles.

    20190208_083059.jpg
     
  6. dsvick

    dsvick Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,986
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    While interesting, your usage is purely anecdotal and depends heavily on a many other factors. Mine, for instance, shows much greater efficiency than yours across all but one temperature range.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    6,948
    Location:
    Colorado
    ^^ 25 miles is NOT A RANGE TEST

    Sheesh
     
    • Like x 4
    • Love x 1
  8. Aellinsar

    Aellinsar Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    Ohio
    I recently drove 175 freeway miles (almost all freeway) in cold temperatures. I started with a full battery and ended with ~10% charge left, so I lost close to 40% of my rated range.

    some of that was due to high speeds (72-73 mph) where you would't achieve rated range anyway.
     
    • Like x 4
  9. billh13850

    billh13850 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Vestal NY
    Anecdotal, but it's been way colder than that here most of the winter, and my range wasn't impacted that much, even with snow tires, aftermarket wheels, and therefore no aero covers. All that and subzero temps, might've lost 30% but not near what they're claiming.
     
  10. Toumal

    Toumal Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Austria
    We have temperatures around/below freezing point here. I commute to work at -3 to -6C every day and my total range has dropped from 160km down to 120km, so by 25%. I do drive on the highway, through I have to moderate my speed to accomodate the range loss. I do drive with heaters set to a comfortable temperature.

    To get 40% range drop I'd have to drive at top speed, and that would mean not having full range in summer as well. There's no way I can get to 40% just by temperature, and we've had -20 degrees Celsius in the past and I still got home and did not have to freeze during the drive.

    I don't believe the article is based on real world EV usage.
     
  11. Petrlol

    Petrlol Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Ohio
    I've made 4 of the same trip in < 25 degree weather. 1 of which was 10 degrees.
    Travel speed 65-70mph.

    Charge to 99% at home. Leave with a warm-ish battery due to the charge.
    Travel 102 miles, sit in cold for 4 hours. Travel 102 miles home. Arrive back with roughly 8% battery. That's roughly 71% efficient.

    You can't drive 25 - 50 miles and do a range test....
     
    • Like x 3
  12. adaptabl

    adaptabl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Canada
    The test was real world behaviour. You have Tesla people telling owners to drive without heat and dress warm. That may result in less loss. Most normal people won't do that. Our PHEV has about a 40% loss when the electric heat is running. Maybe 10%-15% in the cold without the heat. Keeping the warm squishy part at the steering wheel comfortable has a cost.
     
    • Disagree x 4
    • Like x 2
  13. Need

    Need Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,731
    Location:
    SoCal
    I have a 130 miles round trip commute. Right now the temp here in SoCal is 40's in the morning trip and 60's in the afternoon. I am getting about 85-90% of the rated range. My coworker with a 35 miles round trip commute is getting 65%. So travel distance made a huge difference. But then, for him, he does not care about the efficiency of the car with a 130 miles commute. He only care about his commute which is 35 miles. I have another coworker with a 12 miles round trip commute.. he said he seems to getting 50% of the rated range. We are all driving M3 AWD bought within a month of each others.
     
    • Informative x 2
  14. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    2,196
    Location:
    Minnesota
    You have Tesla telling people to pre-heat their vehicles. A loss of 41% over the course of 25 miles is immaterial for the use of said vehicle when you begin with a range of 200+ miles, and efficiency increases with longer drives.

    The fact is you can mitigate these losses in most BEVs, and shorter trips are always going to be less efficient (which doesn't matter).
     
    • Like x 2
  15. adaptabl

    adaptabl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Canada
    Maybe but there are people who to buy an EV without home charging ability. They will be greatly impacted by a large short range loss.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Darthbenji

    Darthbenji Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Ontario
    I think it’s relative to the person and their typical drives. Certain drives, shorter ones, do exhibit more range loss than do longer ones. None of which was explained in the article. I drive about 50km each way to my office. I preheat the car at home before leaving while plugged in. When I leave work I heat from the battery. I drive how I normally would with the heat at 23C. I lose about 40-50% rountinely. Again, I don’t adjust my driving to conserve though since I know I have plenty to get home. Longer drives are different though. I definitely get better range then.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. Darthbenji

    Darthbenji Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Ontario
    I agree. I have no idea why the manufacturers don’t explain this to buyers. I suppose it would affect sales, but id think an informed buyer is better than an irritated one.
     
    • Like x 3
  18. Need

    Need Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    1,731
    Location:
    SoCal
    Oh home charging is a good point too. In the above example, I charge at home every night so in the morning, I don't have that many regen dots.. about 6 or 7. One of my coworker charge once a week, so most morning he got in the car with over half the screen of regen dots. My other coworker only supercharge his car (as he got free 6 month SC) so that's even worst.
     
  19. Eriamjh1138

    Eriamjh1138 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2017
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Michigan
    The report is accurate and the results are real. It’s important to understand that the results apply only to the methods used.

    Your experience has its own results. That doesn’t make the report false. It is what it is.

    If you change the conditions, you will get different results.
     
    • Like x 5
    • Disagree x 1
    • Love x 1
  20. Toumal

    Toumal Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Austria
    Yes, it is a report based on selected assumptions with the intent of pushing a narrative.

    It does not make the report false per se, merely irrelevant.
     
    • Like x 6
    • Disagree x 4

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC