AAA FUD: Winter Driving Range

[SageBrush]

These morons report that EVs lose 40-50% of range in 25F ambient condtions
https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/AAA-Electric-Vehicle-Range-Testing-Report.pdf

Read the method (my bolding) to see what they had to do to achieve their results:

a custom drive sequence was constructed with a combination of EPA dynamometer drive schedules as specified in Appendix B of SAE J1634. The UDDS was performed first, immediately followed by the HWFET and a ten (10) minute soak period. After the soaking period, the UDDS and US06 Driving Schedule (or Supplemental FTP) were performed in succession. Immediately following the US06, a mid-test CSC at 65 mph was driven. The distance of the CSC was specific to each vehicle and was selected such that the end-of-test CSC was about 20 percent of the distance driven throughout the entirety of the test procedure. After the midtest CSC, the UDDS-HWFET-soak-UDDS-US06 test sequence was repeated and an end-of-test CSC at 65 mph was driven until the vehicle was unable to maintain steady-state speed. The constructed drive sequence was utilized for all test vehicles and ambient temperatures.

 

[Arpe]

Well, they are right if the trip is below 10 miles

But surely they will not make a note about this.

 

[ricohman]

25F?
That's what they call winter? Hahaha!

 

[SageBrush]

Well, they are right if the trip is below 10 miles
But surely they will not make a note about this.

Yeah.

Their protocol may be a reasonable efficiency test of a daily winter commute with a stop at McDonalds but it has nothing to do with a trip where range comes into play.

 

[Nate977p]

I can't say my real world is far off... And this is for drives over 25 miles.

 

[dsvick]

I can't say my real world is far off... And this is for drives over 25 miles.

While interesting, your usage is purely anecdotal and depends heavily on a many other factors. Mine, for instance, shows much greater efficiency than yours across all but one temperature range.

TempEfficiency

• dsvick
• Feb 8, 2019

Temperature Efficiency

 

[SageBrush]

^^ 25 miles is NOT A RANGE TEST

Sheesh

 

[Aellinsar]

I recently drove 175 freeway miles (almost all freeway) in cold temperatures. I started with a full battery and ended with ~10% charge left, so I lost close to 40% of my rated range.

some of that was due to high speeds (72-73 mph) where you would't achieve rated range anyway.

 

[billh13850]

Anecdotal, but it's been way colder than that here most of the winter, and my range wasn't impacted that much, even with snow tires, aftermarket wheels, and therefore no aero covers. All that and subzero temps, might've lost 30% but not near what they're claiming.

 

[Toumal]

We have temperatures around/below freezing point here. I commute to work at -3 to -6C every day and my total range has dropped from 160km down to 120km, so by 25%. I do drive on the highway, through I have to moderate my speed to accomodate the range loss. I do drive with heaters set to a comfortable temperature.

To get 40% range drop I'd have to drive at top speed, and that would mean not having full range in summer as well. There's no way I can get to 40% just by temperature, and we've had -20 degrees Celsius in the past and I still got home and did not have to freeze during the drive.

I don't believe the article is based on real world EV usage.

 

[Petrlol]

I've made 4 of the same trip in < 25 degree weather. 1 of which was 10 degrees.
Travel speed 65-70mph.

Charge to 99% at home. Leave with a warm-ish battery due to the charge.
Travel 102 miles, sit in cold for 4 hours. Travel 102 miles home. Arrive back with roughly 8% battery. That's roughly 71% efficient.

You can't drive 25 - 50 miles and do a range test....

 

[adaptabl]

The test was real world behaviour. You have Tesla people telling owners to drive without heat and dress warm. That may result in less loss. Most normal people won't do that. Our PHEV has about a 40% loss when the electric heat is running. Maybe 10%-15% in the cold without the heat. Keeping the warm squishy part at the steering wheel comfortable has a cost.

 

[Need]

I have a 130 miles round trip commute. Right now the temp here in SoCal is 40's in the morning trip and 60's in the afternoon. I am getting about 85-90% of the rated range. My coworker with a 35 miles round trip commute is getting 65%. So travel distance made a huge difference. But then, for him, he does not care about the efficiency of the car with a 130 miles commute. He only care about his commute which is 35 miles. I have another coworker with a 12 miles round trip commute.. he said he seems to getting 50% of the rated range. We are all driving M3 AWD bought within a month of each others.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The test was real world behaviour. You have Tesla people telling owners to drive without heat and dress warm. That may result in less loss. Most normal people won't do that. Our PHEV has about a 40% loss when the electric heat is running. Maybe 10%-15% in the cold without the heat. Keeping the warm squishy part at the steering wheel comfortable has a cost.

You have Tesla telling people to pre-heat their vehicles. A loss of 41% over the course of 25 miles is immaterial for the use of said vehicle when you begin with a range of 200+ miles, and efficiency increases with longer drives.

The fact is you can mitigate these losses in most BEVs, and shorter trips are always going to be less efficient (which doesn't matter).

 

[adaptabl]

You have Tesla telling people to pre-heat their vehicles. A loss of 41% over the course of 25 miles is immaterial for the use of said vehicle when you begin with a range of 200+ miles, and efficiency increases with longer drives.

The fact is you can mitigate these losses in most BEVs, and shorter trips are always going to be less efficient (which doesn't matter).

Maybe but there are people who to buy an EV without home charging ability. They will be greatly impacted by a large short range loss.

 

[Darthbenji]

I think it’s relative to the person and their typical drives. Certain drives, shorter ones, do exhibit more range loss than do longer ones. None of which was explained in the article. I drive about 50km each way to my office. I preheat the car at home before leaving while plugged in. When I leave work I heat from the battery. I drive how I normally would with the heat at 23C. I lose about 40-50% rountinely. Again, I don’t adjust my driving to conserve though since I know I have plenty to get home. Longer drives are different though. I definitely get better range then.

 

[Darthbenji]

Maybe but there are people who to buy an EV without home charging ability. They will be greatly impacted by a large short range loss.

I agree. I have no idea why the manufacturers don’t explain this to buyers. I suppose it would affect sales, but id think an informed buyer is better than an irritated one.

 

[Need]

Maybe but there are people who to buy an EV without home charging ability. They will be greatly impacted by a large short range loss.

Oh home charging is a good point too. In the above example, I charge at home every night so in the morning, I don't have that many regen dots.. about 6 or 7. One of my coworker charge once a week, so most morning he got in the car with over half the screen of regen dots. My other coworker only supercharge his car (as he got free 6 month SC) so that's even worst.

 

[CyberShy]

The report is accurate and the results are real. It’s important to understand that the results apply only to the methods used.

Your experience has its own results. That doesn’t make the report false. It is what it is.

If you change the conditions, you will get different results.

 

[Toumal]

Your experience has its own results. That doesn’t make the report false. It is what it is.

Yes, it is a report based on selected assumptions with the intent of pushing a narrative.

It does not make the report false per se, merely irrelevant.