AAA FUD: Winter Driving Range

[voip-ninja]

Ok, maybe you will understand if I ask this. Are you charging your EV tonight? If not, why not?

Maybe you will understand that I've answered this question multiple times. I do not charge my car at night because I get free charging where I work.

Whether or not I pay for the electricity does not change the fact that the car is using quite a lot of energy when it's parked and not in use in a 40F garage.

Whether that power comes from the battery or comes from a wall connector doesn't change things a lick.

 

[gnuarm]

Maybe you will understand that I've answered this question multiple times.

You can't have answered it several times because I haven't asked it before.

You did talk about charging at work once, but you seem to have trouble with that since it appeared you left work with less charge than you started with. Not much of a charger.

I do not charge my car at night because I get free charging where I work.

Whether or not I pay for the electricity does not change the fact that the car is using quite a lot of energy when it's parked and not in use in a 40F garage.

Whether that power comes from the battery or comes from a wall connector doesn't change things a lick.

The point is you don't have a reason to care about the range since you charge every day. That is the exact point of people who say the AAA test was not of much value and the headline was FUD. Not only did they lie changing the number from 41% in their test data to "nearly" 50% in the headline, the entire test was not representative of the use case where "range" is important. They didn't talk about efficiency or cost of use. They said "range". Discussing anything else in this context is disingenuous by you!

Instead of trying to change the conversation, why not just give it up?

 

[anthonyj]

Lmao I’m getting 50% less range in NJ. Def not FUD.

 

[gnuarm]

Lmao I’m getting 50% less range in NJ. Def not FUD.

At any point did it become an issue? Did you have trouble charging?

 

[McFlurri]

At any point did it become an issue? Did you have trouble charging?

That's not the point.

The original issue you had is that AAA was lying.

Well.. they are not lying. Depending on your local conditions, their finds are accurate. Issue or not... this is NOT FUD

 

[anthonyj]

At any point did it become an issue? Did you have trouble charging?

Yeah, my battery depletes faster. 550-600wh/mi in chill/range mode vs. 270-300wh/mi in the summer. And no, I charge it overnight.

 

[gnuarm]

That's not the point.

The original issue you had is that AAA was lying.

Well.. they are not lying. Depending on your local conditions, their finds are accurate. Issue or not... this is NOT FUD

They did lie when the changed the 41% to "Nearly" half. They could have said "less than two thirds" and it would have been more accurate. Or they could have said it was reduced to "59%". Clearly they were going for shock value by lying.

The distortion by the inappropriate test conditions is the point because while your range may be lower, it isn't cut in half in the situations where you CARE about range.

 

[sjg98]

They did lie when the changed the 41% to "Nearly" half. They could have said "less than two thirds" and it would have been more accurate. Or they could have said it was reduced to "59%". Clearly they were going for shock value by lying.

The distortion by the inappropriate test conditions is the point because while your range may be lower, it isn't cut in half in the situations where you CARE about range.

Don't you live somewhere that's like 60F right now?
Please stop lecturing people in the Northeast on how the Tesla performs in cold weather and the AAA is out to get poor Tesla.
Please let us know when you experience a week straight 20F with your Tesla, and how it performs.

We are happy with our cars, and trying to share actual information based on actual lived daily experiences to better help the community.
AAAs report lines up much closer to our reality than your conjecture.

 

[McFlurri]

Don't you live somewhere that's like 60F right now?
Please stop lecturing people in the Northeast on how the Tesla performs in cold weather and the AAA is out to get poor Tesla.
Please let us know when you experience a week straight 20F with your Tesla, and how it performs.

We are happy with our cars, and trying to share actual information based on actual lived daily experiences to better help the community.
AAAs report lines up much closer to our reality than your conjecture.

Exactly!

 

[gnuarm]

Don't you live somewhere that's like 60F right now?
Please stop lecturing people in the Northeast on how the Tesla performs in cold weather and the AAA is out to get poor Tesla.
Please let us know when you experience a week straight 20F with your Tesla, and how it performs.

We are happy with our cars, and trying to share actual information based on actual lived daily experiences to better help the community.
AAAs report lines up much closer to our reality than your conjecture.

And yet you don't dispute a single thing I've said. The facts are the facts. Let me know when you want to address the facts of the AAA report.

 

[McFlurri]

Ok. Here is a fact.

Just completed this journey in my LR RWD.

Temp was -6C, blue skies, roads dry, travelling at 114km/hr for 278km of total distance driven, with interior temp at 21C (however the last 25km or so the HVAC was turned off). Used autopilot. Moderate winds with winter tires at stock 18in config with areo covers. Also driven in Chill mode.

Average consumption was 200wh/km and 63kwh used. Travelled 315km with an estimated range remaining of 25km.

I charged to 99%(495km), preheated cabin while still charging.

So that means in the winter at mostly highway driving speeds, with a 1 1/2 hour stop for a meeting, i could go a max of 340km to empty. So that is a loss of 32%.

Not the 41% that AAA was stating.

However, this was perfectly charging to max while managing to preheat right at the end of the charge cycle. So i did not lose the customary 25km to the dreadful snowflake, plus 5 to 10km for preheating, as i normally would for day to day use. If i had not done this.. then i wouldnt have made it home without using a supercharger. Now, luckily the route i travelled has one nearby, so that wouldn't have been too much of an issue (+15minutes to the trip), but if i were to have gone somewhere else... then it would have been bad.

On top of that, almost no one charges to 100% on a daily basis. So my results do not reflect someone who may not have perfectly timed their charging with preheating (which would result in at least a 35km range hit), then run down to almost empty.

You ask for facts... yet you have ignored all of the facts i have provided you in my previous responses.

The AAA findings are correct for a large portion of the population that experiences a real winter. Is it possible to beat their findings??? Absolutely! I just did. But in my daily commute.. i see MUCH higher consumption.

 

[happyzod]

Ok. Here is a fact.

Just completed this journey in my LR RWD.

Temp was -6C, blue skies, roads dry, travelling at 114km/hr for 278km of total distance driven, with interior temp at 21C (however the last 25km or so the HVAC was turned off). Used autopilot. Moderate winds with winter tires at stock 18in config with areo covers. Also driven in Chill mode.

Average consumption was 200wh/km and 63kwh used. Travelled 315km with an estimated range remaining of 25km.

I charged to 99%(495km), preheated cabin while still charging.

So that means in the winter at mostly highway driving speeds, with a 1 1/2 hour stop for a meeting, i could go a max of 340km to empty. So that is a loss of 32%.

Not the 41% that AAA was stating.

However, this was perfectly charging to max while managing to preheat right at the end of the charge cycle. So i did not lose the customary 25km to the dreadful snowflake, plus 5 to 10km for preheating, as i normally would for day to day use. If i had not done this.. then i wouldnt have made it home without using a supercharger. Now, luckily the route i travelled has one nearby, so that wouldn't have been too much of an issue (+15minutes to the trip), but if i were to have gone somewhere else... then it would have been bad.

On top of that, almost no one charges to 100% on a daily basis. So my results do not reflect someone who may not have perfectly timed their charging with preheating (which would result in at least a 35km range hit), then run down to almost empty.

You ask for facts... yet you have ignored all of the facts i have provided you in my previous responses.

The AAA findings are correct for a large portion of the population that experiences a real winter. Is it possible to beat their findings??? Absolutely! I just did. But in my daily commute.. i see MUCH higher consumption.

It really depends on how much you use the heat. I usually get ~280WH/Mile (or 175WH/KM) when it's around freezing. Trick is to use the seat heaters PLUS keep interior temperature at 65F, fan speed at 1, and turn off the AC.

The extra energy from the snowflake will eventually go away after about 1 hour of driving. The battery needs to warm up from the waste heat from the drivetrain.

 

[EinSV]

They say the best lies have an element of truth to them.

The AAA’s report has two elements of truth, which makes it an especially good lie:

(1) EVs use more battery when it’s cold
(2) On shorter trips, EVs use even more battery in the cold.

The AAA’s test was designed to mimic the equivalent of multiple short trips in the cold.

It chose not to test long range in the cold but reported that it tested “range.” For most people, the “range” that is most important is long range, because for shorter trips they can charge at home, work or both.

If AAA had conducted an honest range test and reported the results for both (1) repeated commute conditions in cold weather; and (2) range on full battery in cold weather OR if AAA had explained that their test was designed to mimic multiple short commutes and did not apply to long trips, I doubt people would have had many concerns about with it.

That the report is useful to some people who have shorter commutes and don’t have great charging options is not much comfort when it will unquestionably mislead many others whose concern about range is in the context of long trips.

It would have been extremely easy for AAA to run a better test or more accurately describe the limitations of its test. Instead, they have joined a long history of respected entities unnecessarily contributing to range anxiety — including the infamous tricks pulled by John Broder of the New York Times to exaggerate issues with Model S range.

 

[SageBrush]

if AAA had explained that their test was designed to mimic multiple short commutes and did not apply to long trips, I doubt people would have had many concerns about with it.

exactly

 

[gnuarm]

Ok. Here is a fact.

Just completed this journey in my LR RWD.

Temp was -6C, blue skies, roads dry, travelling at 114km/hr for 278km of total distance driven, with interior temp at 21C (however the last 25km or so the HVAC was turned off). Used autopilot. Moderate winds with winter tires at stock 18in config with areo covers. Also driven in Chill mode.

Average consumption was 200wh/km and 63kwh used. Travelled 315km with an estimated range remaining of 25km.

I charged to 99%(495km), preheated cabin while still charging.

So that means in the winter at mostly highway driving speeds, with a 1 1/2 hour stop for a meeting, i could go a max of 340km to empty. So that is a loss of 32%.

Not the 41% that AAA was stating.

However, this was perfectly charging to max while managing to preheat right at the end of the charge cycle. So i did not lose the customary 25km to the dreadful snowflake, plus 5 to 10km for preheating, as i normally would for day to day use. If i had not done this.. then i wouldnt have made it home without using a supercharger. Now, luckily the route i travelled has one nearby, so that wouldn't have been too much of an issue (+15minutes to the trip), but if i were to have gone somewhere else... then it would have been bad.

On top of that, almost no one charges to 100% on a daily basis. So my results do not reflect someone who may not have perfectly timed their charging with preheating (which would result in at least a 35km range hit), then run down to almost empty.

You ask for facts... yet you have ignored all of the facts i have provided you in my previous responses.

The AAA findings are correct for a large portion of the population that experiences a real winter. Is it possible to beat their findings??? Absolutely! I just did. But in my daily commute.. i see MUCH higher consumption.

Actually, you are making my case. The use case they tested for was not your use case. That is the major point. That's why you saw 32% loss instead of "nearly" half. So thanks, I appreciate the clear support.

 

[ricohman]

Ok. Here is a fact.

Just completed this journey in my LR RWD.

Temp was -6C, blue skies, roads dry, travelling at 114km/hr for 278km of total distance driven, with interior temp at 21C (however the last 25km or so the HVAC was turned off). Used autopilot. Moderate winds with winter tires at stock 18in config with areo covers. Also driven in Chill mode.

Average consumption was 200wh/km and 63kwh used. Travelled 315km with an estimated range remaining of 25km.

I charged to 99%(495km), preheated cabin while still charging.

So that means in the winter at mostly highway driving speeds, with a 1 1/2 hour stop for a meeting, i could go a max of 340km to empty. So that is a loss of 32%.

Not the 41% that AAA was stating.

However, this was perfectly charging to max while managing to preheat right at the end of the charge cycle. So i did not lose the customary 25km to the dreadful snowflake, plus 5 to 10km for preheating, as i normally would for day to day use. If i had not done this.. then i wouldnt have made it home without using a supercharger. Now, luckily the route i travelled has one nearby, so that wouldn't have been too much of an issue (+15minutes to the trip), but if i were to have gone somewhere else... then it would have been bad.

On top of that, almost no one charges to 100% on a daily basis. So my results do not reflect someone who may not have perfectly timed their charging with preheating (which would result in at least a 35km range hit), then run down to almost empty.

You ask for facts... yet you have ignored all of the facts i have provided you in my previous responses.

The AAA findings are correct for a large portion of the population that experiences a real winter. Is it possible to beat their findings??? Absolutely! I just did. But in my daily commute.. i see MUCH higher consumption.

Minus 6? It’s been -30 or lower here for weeks. I guess it depends on where you live.

 

[McFlurri]

Actually, you are making my case. The use case they tested for was not your use case. That is the major point. That's why you saw 32% loss instead of "nearly" half. So thanks, I appreciate the clear support.

Im out. You're delusional