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AAA premiums: 30 percent rise
- Thread starter Tam
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- Tesla Inc.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I may not have been clear. I meant to imply that Tesla has a lower rate of crashes.
I think insurance companies spend more on medical, not repair so Tesla should have lower rates but there may be other factors.
Compared to the average car though. Not when compared to "peers" that mostly the AEB too.
"Figure 11 shows the rates calculated by ODI [Office of Defects Investigations] for airbag deployment crashes in the subject Tesla vehicles before and after Autosteer installation. The data show that the Tesla vehicles crash rate dropped by almost 40 percent after Autosteer installation.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF
It seems consistent with expectations: ODI’s analysis of Tesla’s AEB system finds that 1) the system is designed to avoid or mitigate readend collisions; 2) the system’s capabilities are in-line with industry state of the art for AEB performace through MY 2016; and 3) braking for crossing path collisions, such as that present in the Florida fatal crash, are outside the expected performance capabilities of the system
It seems the comparison is among Tesla manual steering cars and Autosteer equipped cars, not to the larger numbers of other brands on the roads.
I observe that Tesla does not dispute the number of crashes nor the costly repairs.
It only complaints that:
1) the comparison is wrong to compare it with "luxury" class such as Volvo XC70 and Mercedes-Benz E-Class...
If it was me, I wouldn't want the repair costs to be compared with non-luxury cars such as Prius, Honda Civic because, if you do, it would show the repair cost for other cheapo cars are so low comparing to Tesla's.
2) The comparison didn't take the lower injury rate into the equation.
If I am not wrong, premium for bodily injury is lower than property damage. If so, Injury comparison won't help much for the argument.
3) The comparison didn't account for the NHTSA 40% less crash rate.
It that rate is true in general it should translate to a lesser number of crashes but Tesla is not disputing the numbers of crashes but just that those numbers should not be compared with "luxury" car class. I suspect that rate is true only in a narrow sense: Tesla Manual Steering Cars VS Tesla AutoSteer Cars.
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idealsol
Member
We've have had AAA for our home and cars longer than many here have been alive.
But when we got our Tesla, AAA quoted us a very high price.
We asked them why so much and they basically admitted their pricing was very high.
So we shopped and landed with Geico at about 35% of the AAA rate
We even got better coverage at. 300/500 vs 100/300
BTW, our renewal is this month and our rates dropped slightly
From 625 to 609 - six months
Everyone's situation is different. We shopped and chose an alternative. Still have our home and other car with AAA
No claims yet so remains to be seen how "smart" we were. But for us a better than 2,000 per year difference is worth the change
But when we got our Tesla, AAA quoted us a very high price.
We asked them why so much and they basically admitted their pricing was very high.
So we shopped and landed with Geico at about 35% of the AAA rate
We even got better coverage at. 300/500 vs 100/300
BTW, our renewal is this month and our rates dropped slightly
From 625 to 609 - six months
Everyone's situation is different. We shopped and chose an alternative. Still have our home and other car with AAA
No claims yet so remains to be seen how "smart" we were. But for us a better than 2,000 per year difference is worth the change
mmd
Active Member
I think the big news here, more than the high repair costs, is the higher frequency of claims. Everyone knew that Teslas undergo extensive damage due to Al body, and cost a lot of money and time to repair. But AAA debunked Tesla's claim that Autopilot etc, made the S&X 40% safer (or was it claimed to be twice as safe). No idea what data Tesla used in that claim. If it compared its modern day large luxury sedan to global stats, that include stats from old subcompacts with no airbags and roads where people drive on wrong side of the road to save a bit of gas, that comparison is utterly meaningless.
If I have to pick one of these, I'll take AAA's word over Tesla's, as Tesla obviously has a motive in producing biased stats. OTOH, AAA has a disincentive to lose Tesla customers.
It will be interesting, how this new crash data affects Tesla sales or insurance rates from other companies. This could force other insurance companies to closely examine their data on Tesla cars.
If I have to pick one of these, I'll take AAA's word over Tesla's, as Tesla obviously has a motive in producing biased stats. OTOH, AAA has a disincentive to lose Tesla customers.
It will be interesting, how this new crash data affects Tesla sales or insurance rates from other companies. This could force other insurance companies to closely examine their data on Tesla cars.
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mmd
Active Member
40% of AP cars over what comparable? That's the part not quite clear.
AAA used data from Model S from 2014 to 2016, and AP was first introduced Oct 2014. So, I'd think AAA data includes significant portion of AP cars.
All Model X cars are AP, still it has 41% more claims. The proportion of very minor incidents is probably same, as they also cost 89% more to repair. Multiplying the two, Model X insurance should be 2.67 times that of average car in that class. That, if the AAA study is correct/good.
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Yes, AAA's chief actuary noticed the anomaly in AAA's collision data and checked other data bases to confirm their analysis.
As posted above, according to to the National Highway Loss Data Institute, both the Mode S and Model X are involved in significantly more accidents and cost more to repair. The Model S is involved in 46% more collisions than the average large luxury vehicle, and cost twice as much to repair. The Model X is involved in 41% more collisions and costs 89% more to repair.
Currently, Tesla is geared toward a small population who is able to afford expensive car and insurance so I don't think this AAA issue will affect much.
However, if Tesla wants to promote sales toward a larger population who can afford Model 3, this news will not be good among those who can't afford expensive car and insurance.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Actually the complaint is it is compared to a class with cars including station wagons. It is unclear that it is the same class as the XC70 and E-Class. I tried to google a bit how the IIHS separates classes in their report, but couldn't find much references.
I found the following (seems outdated though):
"Passenger cars are grouped in six major classes: regular two-door models, regular four- door models, station wagons, minivans, sports models and luxury models"
http://www.iihs.org/media/f9365d6d-...7016350/Ratings/Protocols/current/tech_06.pdf
If Tesla got grouped into the station wagon class, I can see why Tesla opposes the classification.
mmd
Active Member
Whoa! That makes the non-AP Teslas look really bad! Let's say, X is non-AP Tesla claim rate, Y is comparable cars' claim rate. Let's also say, 50% of 2014-2016 Model S were AP in the study.
So, we have: For Model S : (X + 0.6X)/2 = 1.46Y => X = 1.825Y => pre-AP Model S was 82% more accident prone
For Model X (only AP cars): 0.6X = 1.41Y => X = 2.35Y => 135% more accident prone, IF Model X didn't have AP.
Either something is wrong with this 40% claim, or these pre-AP cars had very bad accident rate (terrible drivers, terrible cars or both). Or the AAA data has some flaw (least likely, imho).
You replied to my statement with 2 parts: claim rate and insurance cost. Yes, the presumed rich current Tesla buyers may not care about insurance costs. But they usually care more about safety; i.e. claim/accident rate.
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