Ability to edit old posts expires

[FlasherZ]

I'm not asking for any special treatment; there are more people than just me who have contributed what we have, and we feel as if we're being crapped on, frankly. Plenty of reputation points for my posts in this thread have supported that view, too.

Everything is a compromise; we cannot make everyone happy. Everyone is trying to do their best. I'd hope we'd have your support in that.

Moderators do have my support, or I'd be speaking out more. However, for this matter you have my support only to the point where you're actively advocating for solving this major problem for me, and right now no one is stepping up to own it. All I hear is "we're powerless to fix it". Once again, this is not something that's hard to do -- let's call it out... whoever made this horrible policy decision, please tell us why you can't use the very simple tools currently available to you in the board software.

EDIT: Probably phrased badly... To address questions I've received, I want to publicly thank those who have made an attempt to help me find a solution to this problem; my concern is not with you.

I write posts that are subject to change, based on the NEC changing - based on experience - based on whatever. If I can't change it, it puts forum readers at risk of either violating code/violating the law, if new NEC has been adopted.

If there's a specific forum this is happening in (such as the investment forum, because it's subject to wild speculation that is proven true/untrue later), then restrict the forum. If there are specific users doing this, then box them out and make it visible (like the snippiness thread) -- you have the ability to see their edits, so have the moderators post their edits, or make the edits visible to all (I know edit history can be seen). There are claims that this is a widespread problem and it's happening very frequently -- I don't see that. Maybe I just need the education if it's happening widely -- I read the technical forums, the Model S forums, and the Model X forums, and I haven't seen cases of someone getting drunk in the middle of the night, going on an editing rampage of their original posts, then calling attention to it in follow-ups to cause problems.

Why can't this be made available to everyone:

(Yes, I'm a frequent early editor as well, because I never grew accustomed to post previews.)

So what you're saying is that the moderators support the ability to edit posts, but the administrator (Doug) has said no?

 

[eco5280]

I'm not asking for any special treatment; there are more people than just me who have contributed what we have, and we feel as if we're being crapped on, frankly.

A forum either trusts it's membership or it doesn't. Once we've shown we're not here to spam for Asian sex pills and actually care about / own Teslas, what's with all the stressed out mods? Curb harassment, hate speech, etc., but geez, it's a car forum.

 

[wycolo]

@FlasherZ: You might add a short bit to your sig advising to 'always check my newest posts for latest NEC info' or some such. And how could you possibly have the energy to go back and update all your prior posts!?

With the new deadline I've had enough time to review posts and make necessary edits or deletes when needed. Beyond that it just becomes history, done, finished.
--

 

[FlasherZ]

@FlasherZ: You might add a short bit to your sig advising to 'always check my newest posts for latest NEC info' or some such. And how could you possibly have the energy to go back and update all your prior posts!?

With the new deadline I've had enough time to review posts and make necessary edits or deletes when needed. Beyond that it just becomes history, done, finished.
--

It's not about updating ALL prior posts, there are some specific ones that are expected to be kept up to date. The FAQ in my signature is the main one. People expect that it's kept up-to-date because it's a FAQ. They don't want to have to read through 30+ pages of material to see whether something's been updated. That's a horrible user experience, period. Horrible user experiences will chase people away -- frankly, it's the reason that TMC has won out historically over the Tesla Motors forums.

Here's an example - the NEC in 2014 adopted two new rules for article 625 which added requirements for cord-and-plug connected EVSE's (requiring them to be attached, not permitting them to hang from the outlets as the UMC does) as well as the ability to use load management solutions that affect the load calculations. I can't update my FAQ for these anymore and people must read the entire thread. Allowing me to append to the original post would help but would make it more discombobulated, because I have roughly ordered the material and I would no longer be able to do so. While I will never purport to give official advice that can be followed - because all jurisdictions are different - people do use the posts here to speak to electricians and permitting offices. It makes sense to do our best to keep them up to date.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Everything is a compromise; we cannot make everyone happy.

I also strongly disagree with this statement. It is possible to make everyone happy, and we've outlined several simple solutions in this thread to help achieve that goal.

As I mentioned before, I also run a very active VB forum with over 4 million posts and tens of thousands of users. I also run two other full-time businesses and have a family, and hobbies, travel, and other distractions, etc.

I don't buy that the admins are "way to busy" to address this issue-- BECAUSE THIS FORUM IS THEIR BUSINESS, and the users that actually support that business either through contributions or advertisement views are speaking out very loudly, the owners/admins have to address it. AND IT'S PAINFULLY SIMPLE TO ACTUALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Hiding behind "they're just too busy" is a cop-out for a knee-jerk, ill-conceived and hastily enacted policy that is penalizing every single user on this site --YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS-- for the actions of a tiny group of troublemakers who could be easily dispatched if and when they violate the rules.

The time it's taken the owners/admins and mods to just respond to all of us in this thread has to be more time that would ever be required in banning a user or two every other month and/or cleaning up a messy thread once in a while.

And nobody in any authority has responded to any of the simple solutions I've suggested, and why they are more problematic or "compromises" over the currently implemented policy. Perhaps if the owners/admins could explain with logic why this restrictive and punitive policy is better than any of the other solutions, I think we'd all like to hear that, and then maybe we'll shut up. And "just too busy" isn't an answer.

. Everyone is trying to do their best. I'd hope we'd have your support in that.

Yes, and everyone sincerely appreciates the work the mods do on the site, and I'm sure everyone supports them. I think this is a different issue than what I've outlined above, and the two should not be confused/conflated.

 

[doug]

It's not about updating ALL prior posts, there are some specific ones that are expected to be kept up to date. The FAQ in my signature is the main one. People expect that it's kept up-to-date because it's a FAQ. They don't want to have to read through 30+ pages of material to see whether something's been updated. That's a horrible user experience, period. Horrible user experiences will chase people away -- frankly, it's the reason that TMC has won out historically over the Tesla Motors forums.

Here's an example - the NEC in 2014 adopted two new rules for article 625 which added requirements for cord-and-plug connected EVSE's (requiring them to be attached, not permitting them to hang from the outlets as the UMC does) as well as the ability to use load management solutions that affect the load calculations. I can't update my FAQ for these anymore and people must read the entire thread. Allowing me to append to the original post would help but would make it more discombobulated, because I have roughly ordered the material and I would no longer be able to do so. While I will never purport to give official advice that can be followed - because all jurisdictions are different - people do use the posts here to speak to electricians and permitting offices. It makes sense to do our best to keep them up to date.

The solution we have for that right now is to make the post in question a wiki post. You're able to see the last person that edited the post and when. Alternatively you can make it a blog post.

 

[eco5280]

How do I make all my posts wiki posts so I can edit them later?

 

[FlasherZ]

The solution we have for that right now is to make the post in question a wiki post. You're able to see the last person that edited the post and when. Alternatively you can make it a blog post.

I've addressed that suggestion before, but unfortunately the solution/suggestion fails because it does not allow for moderated maintenance. Just as in software development, it's a really bad idea to allow open and unfettered modifications to a FAQ post that includes key safety information.

The blog post suggestion is covered above, as well - it does not show up in searches, and it actually makes the "find the information" problem even worse than it already is.

I feel as if I'm being told to "shut up, peasant", because it seems no one will respond to my varied attempts to communicate on real solutions. The responses are short and terse without an attempt to understand the problem.

 

[eco5280]

If I'm reading the mods' responses correctly, here are the options:

1) No ability to edit. Mods work really hard for free. Users treated like babies.

2) Ability to edit. Mods work really hard for free. Userbase not made to feel like babies.

Or am I missing something and now the mods are on the beach sipping mai tais because of this policy change? Again, I don't even understand what "extra work" letting people edit their posts causes. I've been hosting and modding forums since 1996 and other than banning jerks it's a pretty self-sufficient self-sustaining ecosystem in a forum. Respond to reported posts, kick out the spammers, and watch Breaking Bad reruns.

 

[FlasherZ]

...and now, time for me, too...

Hi all,

A long time ago, I was told that life was short, and that you should do things that make you happy. If something you do doesn't make you happy, it's time to change that.

For a number of years now, I have poured heart and soul into helping people with their electrical questions on TMC. I enjoyed what I did, because the site members were very gracious and thankful, and rewarded me with some great conversations. I learned from continual research and the conversations.

Unfortunately, this has changed. A recent decision by Doug to take away post editing features because of the potential for someone to create a problem has left me with no ability to continue maintaining my FAQ, except by checking on a daily basis and keeping an offline copy (so it can't be vandalized). I attempted to reach out in order to discuss options -- very simple ones that quite literally would take only one minute -- but site administrators refused to talk with me. They were very short, and terse, and point blank said "no"; no users can be trusted and all users (aside from moderators) must be treated the same. There is a failure to quantify the real problem, and the solutions that have been proposed by many who already know vBulletin software (the software TMC runs) are ignored. There is another thread in this forum to attempt to discuss that.

Moreover, when I made a public appeal to have a conversation, the site administration decided to make my FAQ into a wiki post without my consent. After checking with a few other individuals, I found that anyone on the forum has permission to edit my FAQ. As a result, I am no longer comfortable with leaving my name on it as a maintainer. Because it cannot be maintained by someone who will carefully check the content before it goes live, the trust in the content can no longer be established. I am stunned at the treatment toward me, especially given that TMC's owners take donations based on the help that its members give.

EDIT: I'm going to make it clear, since I received questions from a couple of moderators, that I stand behind anyone who was willing to help find a solution. My concern is with those people who have, for whatever reason, have had the ability to take action but have ignored my questions and the suggestions of experienced forum operators on how to deal with the problem that has been offered.

For that reason, you're likely to see me around far less often. I may post occasionally, but I don't anticipate being here as often as I used to be. I'm looking forward to my Model X delivery, hopefully Septemberish.

My best to you all...

 

[bollar]

Understandable. Thanks for the work you've done in this FAQ and elsewhere on TMC. It has been very helpful to me.

 

[brianman]

@Zex - Please clarify. I'm as confused as FlasherZ on this one.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Perhaps I'm more clueless than I should be, but I don't get this. Is it an attempt to call me a pedophile or something, based on what I'm reading from Wikipedia on the pedo-bear?

hell no! not meaning to call you anything (sorry, I had the pedobear 'seal of approval' gif in my pics folder, no actual meaning implied besides

being treated like kids here sucks & I fully approve of your distaste towards the new 'rules' here.
You have provided lots of very good information to many people!

- - - Updated - - -

@Zex - Please clarify. I'm as confused as FlasherZ on this one.

Don't think I wasn't confused to :tongue: that picture has been trying to jump into a post for years now

there we go.....hmm, creepy bear

 

[mknox]

I agree completely, FlasherZ. There is such a lack of knowledge and, in certain cases, downright ignorance of electrical safety codes and rules that something as important as this shouldn't be left to the whims of the well intentioned, but misinformed to modify.

 

[dirkhh]

Your expertise will be missed. I have followed that rather one sided "discussion" - with us providing arguments and ideas and suggestions and the admins providing one sentence brush offs ignoring what we tried to explain.
It's sad.

 

[Bulletproof]

FlasherZ, it will be sad to see you go; your content has been a substantial contribution to this community.

 

[Rheazombi]

Wow. FlasherZ leaving!?

If that's not proof that this policy is doing MORE HARM THAN GOOD, I don't know what is!

 

[FlasherZ]

I don't believe my thread should have moved here. While the final straw that drove my decision was related to the edit capability, the issue is much broader than it.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I don't believe my thread should have moved here. While the final straw that drove my decision was related to the edit capability, the issue is much broader than it.

What forum/area did you originally post "...and now, time for me, too..." ?? And they merged it into this thread? WTH?

 

[eco5280]

Mods keep saying they work really hard but I think they themselves create this work? No need to do any of it unless it's vandalism IMHO.