Ability to upgrade battery capacity later?

[Mike K]

True, although you'd probably be swapping the whole drive unit. Inverters are matched to their motors, and the P85 has both a different inverter and a larger motor than the 85. Considering how fast Tesla's swapping DUs, it would be simplest to do that, rather than to try to separate the siamese twins that make up the inverter and motor.

Not quite. All three of the original cars use the same motor. The 60 and 85 use the same motor and inverter with the 60 being software limited to lower horsepower because of the battery's current limitations. The P85 also uses the same motor but has a larger inverter.

So in theory all you need to upgrade a 60 to an 85 is the battery and a firmware update (and this has indeed been done at least once). And again in theory, all you need to do to convert your 85 to a P85 is swap out inverters and get the firmware updated to tell the car it has that inverter.

Now Tesla has a vested interest in not doing this or at least not doing it for a reasonable price. If they offered the retrofit for anything less than the difference in cost between a new 60 and a new 85 or a new 85 and a new P85 they would cutting into their own sales of the higher models. Plus if the price to upgrade was the same after purchase as it is when you're buying many people would just buy the base car and then upgrade it later, if at all. This would needlessly burden the service centers with a load of retrofits.

I'd like to think that with the original P85 no longer in production Tesla would be more apt to offer this upgrade at a reasonable cost but again that would eat into their CPO sales of the P85s. So I don't think we're going to see any upgrade path from Tesla any time soon and if we do it will be substantially more than if you had outfitted your car with the same gear from the factory. The idealist in me wishes they'd offer the upgrade paths. The business man in me realizes that they pretty much can't without cannibalizing some aspect of their current business though.

 

[David99]

Are you sure? Everything I've read has said it was the same drive motor with a more powerful inverter for the P RWD cars. The 70D and 85D have a smaller rear drive motor, but I believe all the RWD cars have the same motor.
Walter

Some say, it's just software.

 

[Gremlin]

I call Tesla all the time HQ and local Service Center. Spoke to the Tyson Corner service center regarding an upcoming 36K service. Asked about the latest upgrades and that I have a mid '14 S. Can upgrade to LTE 500 bucks they said. Knew that from Carlos, "what else"? They said 40>60kw, " Yeah I know that it's mainly software update, what else"? 60kw > 70kw = $18,000. Damn now we are talking!

I stated I wanted a 85kw (hate the new Tesla blue color, besides wife would notice a new car - otherwise I'd upgrade now : P) didn't get anything on that but was informed 60>90kw $23,000. They haven't performed one yet. I stated Carlos has when he was located in CT. I was informed that when I bring my car Carlos will have moved to the NY store. Darn.

I stated I'd wait for Gigafactory to come on line see what the prices are then. I also forgot to ask how much my trade in would be for 93 percent capacity. D'ght! I have to call back anyhow tell them to add wheel sensor to list to correct.

 

[scole04]

I call Tesla all the time HQ and local Service Center. Spoke to the Tyson Corner service center regarding an upcoming 36K service. Asked about the latest upgrades and that I have a mid '14 S. Can upgrade to LTE 500 bucks they said. Knew that from Carlos, "what else"? They said 40>60kw, " Yeah I know that it's mainly software update, what else"? 60kw > 70kw = $18,000. Damn now we are talking!

I stated I wanted a 85kw (hate the new Tesla blue color, besides wife would notice a new car - otherwise I'd upgrade now : P) didn't get anything on that but was informed 60>90kw $23,000. They haven't performed one yet. I stated Carlos has when he was located in CT. I was informed that when I bring my car Carlos will have moved to the NY store. Darn.

I stated I'd wait for Gigafactory to come on line see what the prices are then. I also forgot to ask how much my trade in would be for 93 percent capacity. D'ght! I have to call back anyhow tell them to add wheel sensor to list to correct.

Did you ask for any invoices on the price layouts?

 

[Gremlin]

I did call back and asked for updated information related to my next visit that they were suppose to email to me. Been 10 days still nothing, I may have to call them back. On a similar note, on Teslarati they stopped the 85KW in Canada.

 

[Gremlin]

Tesla Tyson store gave me verbal quotes for my 60Kw for my upcoming 36K service. 18000 for 70w (brand new) 23,000 90kw. I'm still waiting info about my trade in for existing battery 35k miles with 6 percent loss. Basically stated I'd wait for Gigafactory to come on line to get better rate.

 

[AMPUP]

Tesla Tyson store gave me verbal quotes for my 60Kw for my upcoming 36K service. 18000 for 70w (brand new) 23,000 90kw. I'm still waiting info about my trade in for existing battery 35k miles with 6 percent loss. Basically stated I'd wait for Gigafactory to come on line to get better rate.

23k to go from a 60 to a 90 sounds like a great deal, I assume there is additional cost.

 

[Gremlin]

I dropped off my car 02/12/16 and asked for the battery back upgrade. Apparently there was misscommunication internally as Tesla provide the prices of the battery packs in some email to the service staff. I know one owner who has an email with the various battery pack upgrades.

The Tyson's Store owner got back to me and stated Tesla is NOT performing any upgrades. If I wanted a larger battery I had to trade my car in. Oh wow that 40 percent depreciation is a great value for an 18 month car - not! For transparency I have 36k miles on my car, which is 18 months old. Stalemate then not trading in my car and I lost 20 miles range on the car. Not happy but was told its normal. Whatever.

 

[bob_p]

Hopefully when the Gigafactory is producing batteries in high volume and as the early production Model S cars get older, Tesla will offer a battery replacement/upgrade program.

For a very brief time, they did offer a pre-paid replacement program - but they quickly discontinued it.

 

[rlang59]

For a very brief time, they did offer a pre-paid replacement program - but they quickly discontinued it.

As far as I remember they never actually offered that for sale on the Model S, they just had a page about it that quietly went away.

 

[Gremlin]

There is a 90 kWh battery upgrade now possible (at least for the 85). I don't know whether it's available for the 60. Elon has recommended that 85 owners wait for a more substantial upgrade.

I bought a 60 and can state for a fact Tesla will not upgrade the battery. I saw on the forum some used 85KW batteries from totaled cars. I have asked Tyson's Service store will they install the battery upgrade software so car recognize the battery.

I doubt it but never know until you ask. At some point they will do the same for the Model S as the Roadster but not before the Gigafactory has been purring couple years I would imagine.

 

[Chaitu]

has anyone installed larger battery packs like 90kwh from salvage cars ? would tesla update the software?

 

[supratachophobia]

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I'm new to the community, but has there been any talk about the possibility of upgrading battery capacity later on? With the batteries being able to be swapped easily, it just seems like a natural service to offer. For instance, I just ordered a CPO 60, but let's say in 5-6 years I might be interested in upgrading the capacity to 85 or whatever higher capacity is available at the time, particularly as costs continue to come down after Gigafactory. Obviously the biggest consideration would be cost, which we won't know how will play out, but conceptually isn't this possible? Has Tesla or Elon mentioned this at all?

I've been getting on my soapbox about this. I say make the 85/90kwh batteries available down stream to those who have 60/75kwh battery owners if the 85/90 wants to upgrade to 100kwh. This would seem the option with the most value as it essentially kills the two birds with the one stone. If Tesla *really* wants a core back, then the S60 owner would literally have no use for his battery at that point and it could be turned into Tesla, hopefully with a less insulting credit that is more than $1000. Of course, by my logic in that example, the S60 owner isn't really getting his full value out of the 60kwh battery, but he does get the performance increase as well. That, in my opinion makes all the numbers work. Tesla has a core, both owners are thrilled at a reasonable cost.

 

[supratachophobia]

has anyone installed larger battery packs like 90kwh from salvage cars ? would tesla update the software?

Yes, wk057 took a s60 and turned it into a P85. However, he had to flash the firmware himself and now he is locked out of all future OTA updates. Tesla needs an official avenue for battery upgrades.

 

[scole04]

Elon has said many times battery upgrades for current owners is happening. Just a question of when.

 

[CmdrThor]

I stated I wanted a 85kw (hate the new Tesla blue color, besides wife would notice a new car - otherwise I'd upgrade now : P) didn't get anything on that but was informed 60>90kw $23,000. They haven't performed one yet. I stated Carlos has when he was located in CT. I was informed that when I bring my car Carlos will have moved to the NY store. Darn.

60->90 kWh for $23k isn't that bad. It's a $18,500 price difference on a new vehicle. I understand wanting to wait on the GF though. If you think about it 90 kWh vehicles depreciate much faster than your 60 kWh.

 

[supratachophobia]

60->90 kWh for $23k isn't that bad. It's a $18,500 price difference on a new vehicle. I understand wanting to wait on the GF though. If you think about it 90 kWh vehicles depreciate much faster than your 60 kWh.

So a 100kwh battery would be $25k officially. Sell my 90kwh for a cool $20k and make a S60 owner a sweet deal. Keep in mind, my 6 month old 90kwh battery does 289 on a full charge. Tesla keeps the 60kwh battery to make 6 powerwalls, everyone is happy.

 

[Kbra]

I was quoted 20k to upgrade my 60kwh to a 90. So yes they do it but math may not pan out vs buying a dif CPO

 

[brantse]

I was quoted 20k to upgrade my 60kwh to a 90. So yes they do it but math may not pan out vs buying a dif CPO

We need some reports of people actually performing these upgrades (besides the sole 60 ->85 upgrade that we know about which happened years ago). As Gremlin reported upthread, he was also provided with quotes to perform battery upgrades but they balked when he actually tried to take them up on it. There must be something that we're not aware of... either something Tesla knows but doesn't want to tell us or that they're just trying to stave this off until actual degradation occurs and batteries really warrant replacement. I wish they'd be a little more up front about the situation, as this is another one of those talking points that drastically changes after you've purchased the car.

 

[Kbra]

We need some reports of people actually performing these upgrades (besides the sole 60 ->85 upgrade that we know about which happened years ago). As Gremlin reported upthread, he was also provided with quotes to perform battery upgrades but they balked when he actually tried to take them up on it. There must be something that we're not aware of... either something Tesla knows but doesn't want to tell us or that they're just trying to stave this off until actual degradation occurs and batteries really warrant replacement. I wish they'd be a little more up front about the situation, as this is another one of those talking points that drastically changes after you've purchased the car.

There may not be many reports because the math dont make sense. I'll gladly do it and write a story about the process if you guys pay for it. I'll even split it with you all. Who wants to create the donation fund?