About time to unveil the D and something else

[MassModel3]

Add to that the vague statement that in the original service plan, its my understanding, that there was a statement providing for "hardware upgrades". If a vague statement like that was truly honored, everybody with "A" and "B" batteries would have "D" batteries now.

Basically, if it's not explicitly spelled out what you get, don't hold your breath. Technology changes, and few things in the world of technology are free.

 

[AMPUP]

I think the original service plan saying hardware changes included was when Tesla needed sales and additional revenue. Is it right that they said that, no. Corporations do what they need to do to take care of shareholders, offering these hardware upgrades for free now would cripple Tesla. Again, is it right they offered this originally, no. But reality is they will do what's right by the shareholders.

 

[breser]

The service plan issue has been discussed to death over here:
Annual Service - is the dream finally dead?

Tesla's service plan website continues to say "hardware upgrades" and "necessary hardware upgrades". As far as I know the actual contract has never said anything about "hardware upgrades." The fact that so much confusion abounds over this issue and Tesla has still not done anything about it surprises me.

 

[Wanabee]

I believe that the 155 mph speed quoted for the S85D is a typo.
I emailed Tesla about this, but I have not received a reply.

 

[Peter_M]

I believe that the 155 mph speed quoted for the S85D is a typo.
I emailed Tesla about this, but I have not received a reply.

The Canadian site says 250 km/h for 85D and P85D, which is 155 mph. So if it's a typo, they've done it twice.

 

[bonnie]

I believe that the 155 mph speed quoted for the S85D is a typo.
I emailed Tesla about this, but I have not received a reply.

Why do you think that's a typo?

 

[Lloyd]

I believe that the 155 mph speed quoted for the S85D is a typo.
I emailed Tesla about this, but I have not received a reply.

No typo, it was stated at the release event also.

 

[Wanabee]

I thought the 155 mph speed limit for the S85D was an error, since the total power for the Model S85D does not change from the S85.
The only other way I can think the speed limit was increased is due to a higher gear ratio.
Perhaps some one can explain the physics involved in this situation. (hint, hint. Elon?)

 

[breser]

I thought the 155 mph speed limit for the S85D was an error, since the total power for the Model S85D does not change from the S85.
The only other way I can think the speed limit was increased is due to a higher gear ratio.
Perhaps some one can explain the physics involved in this situation. (hint, hint. Elon?)

The horesepower numbers are no longer the horsepower that the car is capable of putting out but the numbers that the motor is capable of putting out. Previously the numbers used to reflect the actual performance of the car. Now they reflect the optimal performance of the motor. However, the inverter may not be able to provide enough power to hit that optimal performance. You'll note for instance an S60 and an S85 both have the same hp numbers now. In the past the S60 was listed as having 302 hp and the S85 362 hp and the P85 416 hp. All 3 of these models had the same motor, only the inverter and the battery differed.

I'd guess that the motors and gearing for the S60D and the S85D are the same (which accounts for the identical hp numbers). But that the inverters are different. Which accounts for the different top speeds and 0-60 times.

 

[WarpedOne]

I'd guess that the motors and gearing for the S60D and the S85D are the same (which accounts for the identical hp numbers). But that the inverters are different. Which accounts for the different top speeds and 0-60 times.

Inverters are also the same on nonP cars. Replace a 60kWh with a 85kWh one and you get a 'bona fide' S85 with exactly the same power and performance as brand new S85.

Perhaps some one can explain the physics involved in this situation. (hint, hint. Elon?)

Power of an electric motor as it ramps up the revs is not constant - it is 'made of' three distinct regions:
a) constant torque, linear increase of power: from 0 to some x rpm
b) linearly decreasing torque, constant (= max) power : between x and y rpm
c) 'squarely' decreasing torque, linearly decreasing power : above y rpm

Model S can output its max power only between ~43 and ~73 mph. Above 73mph its power drops down to about 170kW around 120 mph.
By using two inverters and motors, maximum power output below 43mph and above 73mph is higher (= same as between 43 and 73 mph).

Exactly when 85D reaches max power output is not know yet because they might changed the motors/inverters and data from S85 may not directly apply.
Battery stayed the same so max power output which is limited by battery power stayed the same, only 'speed window' where it can come out, got wider.

 

[breser]

Inverters are also the same on nonP cars. Replace a 60kWh with a 85kWh one and you get a 'bona fide' S85 with exactly the same power and performance as brand new S85.

You're right, forgot about that. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Denarius]

Top speed is completely due to gearing on front motor.

 

[LittoDevil]

You'll note for instance an S60 and an S85 both have the same hp numbers now. In the past the S60 was listed as having 302 hp and the S85 362 hp and the P85 416 hp. All 3 of these models had the same motor, only the inverter and the battery differed.

Actually.. the motor on the P85 is different than the S60 and S85. I know first hand because when my motor got replaced on my P85, it was replaced with a P85 motor with the inner guts of the S85... yes it's not a typo.. The actual casing, bar codes on the outside of the drive unit was a P85 but the inside guts was built as a S85 that's why with everything remaining the same on my P85+, my 0-60 time, acceleration was actually slower, to the point where I noticed it before reaching the end of the block after leaving the service center. I've never told anyone this before because it's like a PR nightmare for them if I sued Tesla but I didn't as that's not who I am. They stand corrected, did the research and told me that a certain hub carrier or something in the rear was changed from a certain VIN and above (they told me it's physically impossible to install a standard motor into the performance car as the casting was different). After a certain VIN they made all the casting on this specific part the same, and then they said they did internal research and found my motor was.. indeed built wrong on the inside...

So that, plus all the other info out there is how I know that the P85 motor and inverter is different than the standard ones.

Larry

 

[WarpedOne]

It is public knowledge that nonP versions have same motor/inverter and P has beefed up inverter and - as you found out - motor.

 

[TEG]

Top speed is completely due to gearing on front motor.

I think perhaps too that front motor is more optimized for wide torque peak, and doesn't have power drop off the same as the old/rear big motor.
old/rear/big motor is optimized for low end torque, off-the-line performance so has torque/power peaks lower in the RPM range I think.

I think at lower speeds, the rear motor does the "heavy lifting" and as speeds increase the chores are handed off to the front motor.

 

[EdA]

Any pictures of the frunk in the D?

 

[LittoDevil]

I think perhaps too that front motor is more optimized for wide torque peak, and doesn't have power drop off the same as the old/rear big motor.
old/rear/big motor is optimized for low end torque, off-the-line performance so has torque/power peaks lower in the RPM range I think.

I think at lower speeds, the rear motor does the "heavy lifting" and as speeds increase the chores are handed off to the front motor.

I personally think the rear motor is the same as before.. your going to need all the HP you can get to achieve the type of acceleration that it has. The current P85+ could definitely go faster than 130 mph, I've hit 135 and it wont go faster mainly due to the power cut limiter. It takes a lot more power to continue to accelerate and sustain high speeds which.. isn't a surprise and I'm sure you know that as well. With the help of the front motor and the extra power (in my opinion not hand off the increase chore but combined) is how it achieves the fast 0-60 and the power needed for a reliable top speed. If you were to hand over the job to the front motor which is a lot less powerful, the car won't even speed up or maintain the speed required.. and/or you'll have to feed it way too much power to keep up. It's not doubt going to need both motors, power from both at near full capacity to accelerate and maintain 155 mph. I want to say the current P85+ could hit 155 if given the full 320 WH power and time to get there. Just my opinion and thought process ..

Larry

 

[TEG]

I too had been wondering how much the rear motor would be helping at 155MPH. When I said "handed off", I didn't necessarily mean that it completely switches over. Just that more and more of the power starts coming from the front instead of the rear as you go faster. Anyways, you probably don't need full power (from both motors) to get 155MPH. Here is one example of an ICE car (FWD by the way) that does 155MPH with 280hp:
2012 Opel Astra OPC gets 280 horsepower, 155 mph top speed - Autoblog

Mazda RX7 turbo (Gen 3) could do 155+ with 255hp:
Mazda RX-7

1991 Acura NSX went 167MPH from 270hp:
Pure and Simple: NSX went where other exotics feared to tread - 1991-1996 Acu | Hemmings Motor News

Model S has very low CD so cuts through the air rather well. Although a big car, I suspect it can do 155MPH with well under 300hp.

Seems like the 221hp front motor could almost do it by itself, but it would be close.

 

[andrewket]

There may also be an advantage to having two motors from a heat management perspective. Two inverters and motors = more surface area.

 

[gpetti]

There may also be an advantage to having two motors from a heat management perspective. Two inverters and motors = more surface area.

This seems likely to me. the work is being split between the two motors so heat for the rear motor should be less shouldn't it? I guess the inverter is still potentially a weak link though (assuming it provides for both motors).