TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Acceleration from 0-25.

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by ZapM3, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. ZapM3

    ZapM3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Chicago
    #1 ZapM3, Jun 17, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2018
    Two days ago, I picked up my M3 at the Highland Park location. I’m very, very happy with it. But I do feel that the power is obviously dialed down when starting from a dead stop. The reasons I believe this are:

    1) I drove at 6:15 AM on a Sat with almost no traffic and wet roads that hadn’t seen rain in the last 20 min. In a straight line, flooring it in the 0-25 mph range led to the rear tires losing grip and then traction control kicking acting in a very impressive and responsive way both in how it cut power and added it back in. See footnote 1 for a tangent on traction control.

    2) On dry roads, flooring it and said speeds yielded almost no wheel spin or noticable traction control action.

    3) The increase in acceleration around 25 mph is dramatic. If full torque were available earlier, I don’t believe it would feel as it does. On dry roads on a wide left turn from a red light, it’s never loosing grip (or accelerating especially quickly) at 10 mph. Yet later in the turn it’s accelerating quite quickly and getting a bit squirrelly, which is fun.


    This is my first EV, but one of the things I liked about them, theoretically, was the flat powerband and immediately available power. My car isn’t displaying the same tourque at 10 mph as it is at 30. My guess is that this is a conscious decision that’s been implemented via software. I’d MUCH prefer low speed torque be an option (Sport or regular) if there is a safety decision involved. I hope there isn’t some hardware weakness being worked around.


    My next test will be to try going a sustained 10 mph and then punching it. Maybe that’s different than flooring it at zero.

    I’m coming into this with bias from this lthread linked below about a change in performance with a recent software update. It mentions low speed torque. I only took delivery 2 days ago so I can’t add anything in regard to a change taking place.

    Reports of slower accelleration after latest update.


    1) On the wet roads turning sharply while simultaneously accelerating hard would get the back end out. But traction control would shut it down AND it would delay access to torque for way too long. It’s not trying to help you stay on the edge. It’s shutting down the fun. When accelerating in a straight line on wet roads, it finds the edge brilliantly. Maybe it isn’t the Turing that puts it in safe mode. Maybe it’s the degree of loss of traction brought on by cranking the wheel.
     
    • Like x 1
  2. ZapM3

    ZapM3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Chicago
    My thread shows up as a big link. Anyone know how to fix this? I did too much cutting and pasting on my phone, I guess.
     
  3. ZapM3

    ZapM3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Chicago
    Highland park, IL.
     
  4. SteveTack

    SteveTack Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Arvada, CO
    I can tell you that a P100D Model S gives you exactly the "immediately shot out of a cannon" feel you're looking for, based on a short test drive. Maybe the AWD helps with that.

    I don't own a Tesla (yet!), but part of what you're experiencing could be due to lack of full traction with rear-wheel drive. I wonder if sportier tires would help some in the dry.

    What wheel option did you choose? I think I read that the 19" wheels come with much sportier tires than the 18".

    It's also possible that the acceleration is slightly gimped to give a bit of a gap to the performance Model 3, but there's no real way to know that I guess.
     
  5. jamnmon66

    jamnmon66 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    357
    Location:
    Brighton, CO
    Try to turn on "Slip Start" and see if you notice a difference. It might be placebo but I think I can feel it launch a little bit harder.

    I agree with you that it's a little neutered at very low speeds. Not enough to ruin the fun but enough to make me wonder if it could be better. I'm guessing an intentional choice and/or traction control.

    18" aeros on mine BTW.
     
    • Like x 2
  6. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    San Diego
    Can you measure acceleration from 0-30 and 30-60? Maybe with a camera. All the magazine tests show the Model 3 being faster from 0-30 than it is 30-60 but people keep posting that it seems slower. Very strange.
     
  7. mal_tsla

    mal_tsla Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    From our experience driving non-P and P model S and X cars, the non-P cars are deliberately nerfed at 0mph launch. The acceleration from a roll is very very similar between a P and non-P, but from 0mph the non-P cars are always very underwhelming.

    We've decided this is Tesla's way of differentiating the P cars to help justify the extra $
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Helpful x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  8. ZapM3

    ZapM3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Chicago
    I went with the 18” aeros with the thought of possibly putting winter performance tires on the wheels if I wasn’t happy with the all seasons in the snow. And then I’d buy different wheels with summer performance tires for spring thru fall.

    I still might do this but I don’t think it’s going to affect the low speed, dry road acceleration. Traction doesn’t seem to be the limiting factor accelerating from a stop on dry roads. It does seem to be the limiting factor on wet roads.
     
  9. ZapM3

    ZapM3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Chicago
    I like the camera idea. I know next to nothing about video editing, but it should be possible to set up a camera with the speedometer in view and then get an acceleration curve based on time stamps or knowing the frame rate of the camera. I’ll try it. Maybe people could even do this from old videos on YouTube to look at the claim of power being reduced after a recent software update.
     
  10. harcocjh

    harcocjh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I definitely think they could throw a little more power at the car from 0-20. It doesn't have that push you back in the seat power like it does around 30. I agree with mal_tsla that this is probably to distinguish the P from the non-P. It's still plenty fun and personally I think if I had to choose I'd choose to have the power about right where it is versus from off the line. Just because I feel like it's more useful there for merging and passing. I've never had an issue with it when I needed to get ahead of traffic from a light to get over or anything. Way quicker off the line than most other average cars. But yeah when I wanna impress people I go to about 30 or 35 then punch it haha.
     
  11. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Could it be that the reluctance permanent magnet motor makes a difference here? I think they traditionally will not provide full thrust at 0rpm.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. mal_tsla

    mal_tsla Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Very possible. But the non-P S and X do the exact same thing (stunted torque at zero, neck breaking torque from a roll) so it seems to be software.

    If you want a hard launch from zero, Tesla prefer you pony up for a Performance model.

    I should mention that on occasion our X has accidentally put down full torque from zero. Once it was on a slight uphill with a little water. The tires slipped, TC got it under control immediately but then unleashed the hardest launch our car has ever done. Not as hard as the P loaner, but pretty close. The car is being software limited, imo
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  13. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Man, my car is “stunted” from 0? Wow, the Performances 3 will blow mind!
     
    • Like x 1
  14. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,172
    Location:
    Oregon
    Well Elon does say that the "Test drive is a mindwarp".
     
    • Like x 1
  15. North75

    North75 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    MA
    I also noticed that the acceleration "feels" much stronger when already going 30 then when accelerating from a stop. I can't say that it really is faster, but it feels like more of a punch when you first press the pedal. Passengers have been more impressed with me flooring it from 30 vs. from a stop.

    I wonder if it is programming or some characteristic of the motor itself.

    I'd like to see someone run a series of dyno tests starting at different speeds in 5 mph increments.. 5, 10, 15... and see if the power delivered is the same or not. I remember a long while ago someone had one on a Dyno and they were recording much more HP when starting from 30 or above.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    5,331
    Location:
    Michigan
    It may be done to address parking lot issues of hitting accelerator instead of brake, or being in D vs R.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,625
    Location:
    Delaware
    Your perception matches the dyno curve drag times came up with. Unless there's a problem with their testing, the car apparently builds torque progressively until ~25 mph, not typical of other EVs:

    Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dyno Testing

    I'm not sure if that's a programmed limitation for some reason, or related to the fancy new partially switched reluctance motor design the 3 is supposed to have somehow...
     
  18. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    San Diego
    That test must be wrong or there is extreme variation between cars. I'm not sure dynos are designed to measure torque at 0 rpm (not real applicable to ICE vehicles!)
    Motortrend measured 0-30 in 2.1s and 30-60 in 2.7s.
    My theory on why it feels slow from 0-30 is because it is slower from 0-30 than competitive cars. It's much faster from 30-60 though. I think people are used to the acceleration you get in 1st gear on powerful ICE cars.
     
    • Like x 3
  19. chinnam3

    chinnam3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Bellevue
    I also felt acceleration is much better after 30 mph compared to 0-30. It is no where close to my previous BMW E90 with measly 230HP from the start. Ofcourse after 30 it gets oomph! I was expecting other way around for EV.

    Somehow I think Tesla is limiting the starting current. I felt this change has occurred after 18.13, but I am not very certain as I only had few day before 18.13 update.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  20. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    San Diego
    How fast is your E90 off the line in 2nd gear? The Model 3 9:1 drive ratio means it's basically in 2nd gear all the time.
     
    • Disagree x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC