TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Accident - need advice

Discussion in 'Model S' started by ny888, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. ny888

    ny888 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Not even a few days old but already in an accident. I was pulling into a parking spot, let go off the accelerator and let the regen brake slow to a stop. Instead the car sped up and hit the car parked opposite of me. The damage is not bad, I'm not sure if I stepped on the brake or the collision avoidance stopped the car. Slight warping of the nose cone and one sensor got pushed in slightly. The other car, has very minor bumper dent.

    has anyone heard of this behavior before?
     
  2. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    5,046
    A few things...

    1/ Regen doesn't work below 5mph. The car will continue to coast until friction overcomes the intertia.
    2/ Do you have creep on? With creep on, the car will maintain ~5mph (I don't use creep, so I don't know the exact speed.) If you current speed is <5mph and you let off the brake, the car will very slowly accelerate to the creep speed.

    One-pedal driving is great... but in a parking lot or while you're moving very slowly, there is no benefit to regen. Use the brake.

    Sorry for your troubles.
     
  3. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,734
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    Sorry to hear of your accident. Most likely what happened is not that the car sped up, but as the collision neared and you puckered up the car felt like it was accelerating (especially since you were expecting regen to do the opposite and slow down--and as Andrew correctly pointed out, regen is nonexistent below 5mph). Glad to hear the damage is fairly minor. Hope your repair is swift and relatively painless!
     
  4. ny888

    ny888 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I don't think I have creep on but will have to double check.
     
  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,366
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    How fast were you going when you took your foot fully off the accelerator pedal? I'm sorry to hear your new S got dinged up, but I am doubtful that the car "sped up" if your foot was off the "go pedal" UNLESS you have "creep" on and the car was moving at 1mph or less when you lifted your foot. Even then it seems hard to imagine that the car would accelerate. With "creep" on the car moves at maybe 2mph on level ground.
     
  6. stevej119

    stevej119 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Northern California
    Given that you're in San Francisco... was the parking lot flat? If you were on a downslope, friction would not overcome the inertia and you would never slow below 5 mph (if that indeed is the exact cutoff point of the regen braking) until the ground levels, you hit something, or you apply the brakes.
     
  7. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,872
    Location:
    NoVa
    Does Tesla use the Toyota gas pedal? ;)
     
  8. stevej119

    stevej119 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Northern California
    My recently sold 85 didn't have collision avoidance, so I'm not certain when/how it activates. If it was "on", wouldn't it have stopped the car before a 5 mph impact?
     
  9. rogbmw

    rogbmw Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I second checking to see if you have the "creep" setting on. If it is, and you take your foot off the brake, the car will move forward.
     
  10. stevej119

    stevej119 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Northern California
    OP didn't take foot off the brake, took foot off the accelerator and assumed regen would stop the car. As regen won't stop the car, my questions are:

    1. Was creep on?
    2. Was the parking lot level?
    3. Does collision avoidance not activate when traveling at speeds below 5mpg?
     
  11. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,885
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    This happened to one of my friends. He stopped in a parking lot, took his foot off the brake and assumed that it would not move. When he was distracted looking down at some banking the car started to roll and he did not notice. The car coasted into another car and caused some considerable damage to both cars. You have to remember to put it in park when you stop if you don't want the car to roll.
     
  12. ny888

    ny888 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    #12 ny888, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
    Just checked, creep mode is off. I've reported the accident to my insurance company. Upon closer inspection, it does look like the nose cone is slightly pushed in on one side, by millimeters but you can see it.

    Also waiting for service center to pull the log.

    To answer some of the questions - I was going 10 mph or less since I was just pulling into the parking space, it's a level lot. In the picture you can see the sensor pushed in. Above that to the right you can see the mark left by the license plate screw. The other damage is harder to see because of the shading of the light.

    IMG_0084.JPG

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for your doubt, I am not trying to get anything from Tesla. At this point, I'll let the insurance company handle it. If it was user error, no problem. Will the log say I mashed on the go pedal by mistake? I don't know. I actually rather it be my error than to know the car has a serious issue.
     
  13. stevej119

    stevej119 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Northern California
    I hadn't thought about that possibility. Since you had thought that regen would slow you to 0 mph, it's possible that when at 5 mph regen released and the car was coasting freely you suddenly went to hit the brake in a panic, but hit the "go" pedal by mistake. I can see that happening to any of us in a brand new car with which we weren't yet fully familiar. Then again, if you did hit the accelerator, there would have been a greater impact, UNLESS the collision avoidance kicked in to mostly negate the affect of stomping on the accelerator while closing in on the car in front of you. Personally, I don't have enough knowledge of the "collision avoidance" feature to understand how it would work in this particular circumstance.

    I'm just happy for you that the damage is relatively minimal and no one was hurt. Where my business is located there have been three cars in the last three years which have driven through windows/doors of businesses as the result of the wrong pedal being used.
     
  14. ny888

    ny888 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    That scenario is certainly possible that I hit the go pedal by mistake. In the panic, I can't really remember exactly what happened. Hopefully the log will tell us. I wonder how much it is to replace the nose cone.
     
  15. stevej119

    stevej119 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Northern California
    Many, many months ago I recall seeing a post saying the nose cone was only $200. I recall thinking hat sounded extremely low at the time and am not sure if it's correct. The good news is that there's no paint involved.
     
  16. travwill

    travwill Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Agree at least it is just the cone which is pretty cheap overall to replace, and no repaint or blending involved! Do check all the front body panel gaps to make sure nothing else shifted while at it.

    just for record for anyone that is future driver, with creep off and letting regen fully work my car never comes to a full stop, almost does only. You have to time your regen right for one food driving but do have to use the brakes time to time ;-)
     
  17. ny888

    ny888 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Tesla called back after analyzing the log - the car was going 1mph when the brake and go pedals were simultaneously pressed. Driver error. It went from 1mph to 4.8mph in one second at which time regen braking kicked in and slowed the vehicle to 3mph before impact.

    Tesla will not release the log or put anything in writing without a court order. Such a slow accident and yet it felt like I was flying !
     
  18. AndyM

    AndyM Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    661
    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Nicely said, ny888. I've noticed my Model S rolling easily even on very slight increases. If you're already in a little motion, less than 5 mph, and didn't know regen would not cause the car to slow to a stop less than 5 mph regen, a slight incline could easily feel like the car speeding up. I'd bet on that as the scenario that fits the report. I hope the logs are helpful - data always wins. :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rotten luck, that. My big feet and I know how you feel.
     
  19. JPP

    JPP Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,842
    Location:
    SF Bay area, CA
    Replacement nose cone is about $400-500. If the park distance sensor is still good, you can pull the sensors out of the old nose cone and reinstall them into the new nose cone.
     
  20. russman

    russman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    California
    What do you tell your insurance company?
     

Share This Page