Action to petition to NHTSA to limit the use of beta FSD on Public Road

[ethankailey]

Most of you guys are in so much denial.. SMH.
My office is in La Habra, CA about a block away from Brea where the incident (FSD related crash) took place recently. I currently have 10.4 and have witnessed some erratic FSD driving behavior which consist of swerving from one lane to another where I did not have enough time to react. On several occasions, I intervened before a serious head on collisions. I've jotted few places down so if anyone in OC would like to tryout, let me know. Mostly noticeable on Beach Blvd traveling North from I-5.

As for Brea, I can't even list all the surface roads that I had to "hard" intervene, especially on Imperial Hwy near Brea Mall. As more of FSD beta are made available to Tesla owners, I can safely speculate that we will be hearing a lot more in the near future with the news on FSD related accidents. I know I'll get speared for this but this madness has to stop. FSD is no where ready for the prime time and NHTSA needs to regulate and restrict from FSD beta tests on public roads by untrained professionals.

I cannot believe NHTSA would let Tesla get away this far unless they've already been bought out. LOL. It's really simple. If you are the DMV driving instructor, would you let Tesla beta FSD driving performance to a passing grade to earn it's DL? Oh Hell NO..

Tesla can't even fix AP phantom braking so what type of pipe dream that the Tesla Dev can deliver a FSD in near future? I've said this about million times. Current hardware on our Tesla is not optimal to run L3 FSD. Probably with HW6+ and updated additional cameras with sensors enabled.

Whether we like it or not NHTSA restrictions on public beta testing FSD on public road will be enforced much sooner than we can imagine. They'll be on a stand soon enough. If you are a non-believer, just try and have your better half drive the Tesla with FSD enabled and you follow behind. It's like watching a DUI clip. This less than half baked cake (FSD) will eventually get someone killed. It's only a matter of time. ;(

 

[Terminator857]

If you don't like it, don't use it.

 

[ethankailey]

If you don't like it, don't use it.

I don't. I cancelled the subscription. It's the other beta tester that I'm afraid of. Tesla should give back the FSD purchased price to previous owners. Tesla should not put the risk of being injured to the beta testers that have spent thousands thinking that the Full FSD would be delivered back in 2019.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Ohhhhh yes!!!! GOVERN ME HARDER DADDY!!!! Call the NHTSA AT ONCE!!!! (Because you have an opinion about an experience you’ve had).

I’ve never been a safer driver since getting the beta. I’m constantly monitoring EVERYTHING, my surroundings, and what the software might do, ect.

Enjoy the extra $200 or whatever a month the FSD subscription is. Maybe you can use that money to become a “lobbyist” to stop super-duper unsafe FSD and put Tesla out of business.

 

[TresLA]

This user has posted/commented (aka trolled) a number of times and isn’t consistent on whether they have FSD beta or not. This is just another post of theirs that moderators will hopefully move again to
Snippiness 2.0

 

[FunSecured]

Most of you guys are in so much denial.. SMH.
My office is in La Habra, CA about a block away from Brea where the incident (FSD related crash) took place recently. I currently have 10.4 and have witnessed some erratic FSD driving behavior which consist of swerving from one lane to another where I did not have enough time to react. On several occasions, I intervened before a serious head on collisions. I've jotted few places down so if anyone in OC would like to tryout, let me know. Mostly noticeable on Beach Blvd traveling North from I-5.

As for Brea, I can't even list all the surface roads that I had to "hard" intervene, especially on Imperial Hwy near Brea Mall. As more of FSD beta are made available to Tesla owners, I can safely speculate that we will be hearing a lot more in the near future with the news on FSD related accidents. I know I'll get speared for this but this madness has to stop. FSD is no where ready for the prime time and NHTSA needs to regulate and restrict from FSD beta tests on public roads by untrained professionals.

I cannot believe NHTSA would let Tesla get away this far unless they've already been bought out. LOL. It's really simple. If you are the DMV driving instructor, would you let Tesla beta FSD driving performance to a passing grade to earn it's DL? Oh Hell NO..

Tesla can't even fix AP phantom braking so what type of pipe dream that the Tesla Dev can deliver a FSD in near future? I've said this about million times. Current hardware on our Tesla is not optimal to run L3 FSD. Probably with HW6+ and updated additional cameras with sensors enabled.

Whether we like it or not NHTSA restrictions on public beta testing FSD on public road will be enforced much sooner than we can imagine. They'll be on a stand soon enough. If you are a non-believer, just try and have your better half drive the Tesla with FSD enabled and you follow behind. It's like watching a DUI clip. This less than half baked cake (FSD) will eventually get someone killed. It's only a matter of time. ;(

You’ve OBVIOUSLY a deep seeded bias and distain for Tesla and FSD or you wouldn’t be posting in this venomous and jaded way. People who have/use FSD know WELL what it generally does GREAT and what it still need more info in/is learning in. You expect a finished product. It’s not. It’s Beta. You expect no corner cases. That’s not realistic. It has to learn. You expect the driver shouldn’t have responsibility to still take over. That’s unreasonable, as THAT is the current L2 obligation and expectation…you’re the “driver” NOT the car and YOU must be alert and able to intervene when using this emerging tech / beta amazing feature. Cry me a river! Geez

 

[Knightshade]

Most of you guys are in so much denial.. SMH.
My office is in La Habra, CA about a block away from Brea where the incident (FSD related crash) took place recently. I currently have 10.4 and have witnessed some erratic FSD driving behavior which consist of swerving from one lane to another where I did not have enough time to react. On several occasions, I intervened before a serious head on collisions. I've jotted few places down so if anyone in OC would like to tryout, let me know. Mostly noticeable on Beach Blvd traveling North from I-5.

Dashcam footage or it didn't happen.

 

[ConSaab]

Trolls like these that cause issues in our society. If you don’t like the system don’t use it. Simple! Tesla is doing its hardest to ensure beta is in hands of responsible drivers. What else do you want?

Let the company innovate or china will take over…

 

[AndreP]

Trolls like these that cause issues in our society. If you don’t like the system don’t use it. Simple! Tesla is doing its hardest to ensure beta is in hands of responsible drivers. What else do you want?

Let the company innovate or china will take over…

If the NHTSA truly can stifle the innovation of a system that needs to be allowed to drive roads to learn them, there are some MASSIVE risks from other parts of the world that can do exactly the same thing to eliminate their competition

 

[jjrandorin]

This user has posted/commented (aka trolled) a number of times and isn’t consistent on whether they have FSD beta or not. This is just another post of theirs that moderators will hopefully move again to
Snippiness 2.0

Im not a moderator in this subforum, but from a moderation perspective, this OPs post just looks like your standard "anti FSD" rant you can find in this subforum on the front page daily. It doesnt appear to break any forum rules.

With that being said, one click looking at this OPs post history shows their position (which is extremely well entrenched), which is consistent with this first post. I have no idea why people continue to engage on posts like this, frankly. Nothing anyone says is going to change this OPs or anyone else with similar "deep seated" feelings.

The OPs post is basically "trolling lite" because it doesnt break any moderation rules, but is specifically designed to get a rise out of people.

shrug...

 

[Daniel in SD]

If the NHTSA truly can stifle the innovation of a system that needs to be allowed to drive roads to learn them, there are some MASSIVE risks from other parts of the world that can do exactly the same thing to eliminate their competition

Couldn't Tesla just release FSD Beta in China and work out the bugs there?
There is zero chance that the NHTSA will stop Tesla testing FSD. There is a reasonable chance that they'll stop them from using customers to test it.

 

[AndreP]

Couldn't Tesla just release FSD Beta in China and work out the bugs there?
There is zero chance that the NHTSA will stop Tesla testing FSD. There is a reasonable chance that they'll stop them using customers to test it.

I think the regulators have been pretty lenient as it is and I personally only see potential changes to monitoring driver attentiveness to protect the public

But like FSD Beta would need to drive the streets in China to learn them in the first place right? If China wants to stop the competition, I have zero doubt they have every tool required to stop Tesla from developing any of this technology in what is the largest vehicle market in the world. Or they have every tool required to steal the technology when it is developed.

Basically I'd argue the "omg China" worries are pretty inconsequential in this context, because the NHTSA is not the concern

 

[jabloomf1230]

Couldn't Tesla just release FSD Beta in China and work out the bugs there?
There is zero chance that the NHTSA will stop Tesla testing FSD. There is a reasonable chance that they'll stop them from using customers to test it.

Wait, I thought that I was a Tesla contract employee.

 

[alexgr]

I currently have 10.4 and have witnessed some erratic FSD driving behavior which consist of swerving from one lane to another where I did not have enough time to react.

If you really had FSD 10.4 then you know that you are not supposed to take your hands off of the steering wheel, especially in turns. If you keep your hands on the wheel, the reaction time to apply more force to the wheel to stop it turning wrong way is minimal. I am participating in this future-product R&D as a tester and I am happy about that. I paid for FSD in 2019 as an investment in our future, and I fully accept the possibility of FSD failure.

 

[Atari2600]

It's really simple. If you are the DMV driving instructor, would you let Tesla beta FSD driving performance to a passing grade to earn it's DL? Oh Hell NO..

How about we implement Tesla Safety scoring for all brand vehicles and anyone who doesn't maintain an average of 85 lose their drivers license. Almost 40,000 people lost their lives in 2020 to car accidents, how many of those were from FSD, a handful? A person that is a poor driver with FSD beta is probably a poor driver in general.

2020 Fatality Data Show Increased Traffic Fatalities During Pandemic | NHTSA.

While Americans drove less in 2020 due to the pandemic, NHTSA’s early estimates show that an estimated 38,680 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes—the largest projected number of fatalities since 2007. This represents an increase of about 7.2 percent as compared to the 36,096 fatalities reported in 2019. Preliminary data from the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) shows vehicle miles traveled (VMT) in 2020 decreased by about 430.2 billion miles, or about a 13.2-percent decrease. The fatality rate for 2020 was 1.37 fatalities per 100 million VMT, up from 1.11 fatalities per 100 million VMT in 2019. NHTSA’s analysis shows that the main behaviors that drove this increase include: impaired driving, speeding and failure to wear a seat belt.

 

[Terminator857]

... I currently have 10.4 and have witnessed some erratic FSD driving behavior which consist of swerving from one lane to another where I did not have enough time to react.

People with very slow reflexes shouldn't use FSD. Lane swerving takes seconds, if you don't have time to react perhaps you are not paying attention?

> On several occasions, I intervened before a serious head on collisions.
Video please and maybe post to the thread "FSD tried to kill me".

As more of FSD beta are made available to Tesla owners, I can safely speculate that we will be hearing a lot more in the near future with the news on FSD related accidents.

I can also speculate it will save thousands of lives. Will be interesting when hard data comes in.

FSD is no where ready for the prime time and NHTSA needs to regulate and restrict from FSD beta tests on public roads by untrained professionals.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'm hoping it saves lives, but we will see what happens. I suppose the super safe drivers that have FSD now should lean towards safety rather than accidents.

> I cannot believe NHTSA would let Tesla get away this far unless they've already been bought out. LOL.
NHTSA works on hard data. So the hard data needs to be collected. What makes it even more complicated for NHTSA is after any incident, Tesla will declare the problem solved in next update.

If you are the DMV driving instructor, would you let Tesla beta FSD driving performance to a passing grade to earn it's DL? Oh Hell NO..

Tesla only has a learners permit that requires supervision. No driving test required for learners permit.

Tesla can't even fix AP phantom braking so what type of pipe dream that the Tesla Dev can deliver a FSD in near future?

Interesting that some claim they have no phantom braking. Is it that big of a deal to hit the electron pedal when the car brakes unexpectedly? Phantom braking should diminish over next few months. What timeline do you think is reasonable?

> Probably with HW6+ and updated additional cameras with sensors enabled.
I'm more optimistic. Maybe hardware 5 will allow level 3 in small situations. But I'm also happy that beta doesn't require confirmation at red lights. I'll take the advances as they come.

Whether we like it or not NHTSA restrictions on public beta testing FSD on public road will be enforced much sooner than we can imagine.

I'm willing to wager on that. What time frame do you think?

> , just try and have your better half drive the Tesla with FSD ...
She won't touch it. Too afraid, and rightfully so.

> This less than half baked cake (FSD) will eventually get someone killed.
Will it save more lives than it kills? How half backed are the tons of level 2 lane assist cars out there that can't handle a medium turn on the freeway?

 

[zigmeister]

I would like to petition that 75% of drivers shouldn’t be on the road because they don’t have professional driving and racing skills and history like I do. How do I get that started?!?!

 

[bo3bdar]

The part where he suggests that we should not be putting other people at risk is not wrong. It's like drunk driving- it's great for you, terrible for everyone else, and very selfish.

On a related point, am I the only one who is concerned that Tesla's are getting a reputation for being erratic and dangerous on the roads? I know most people here don't get out much, but if you skim social sites like Imgur, Reddit, and even the hated Facebook you'll see people commenting about how Tesla's are dangerous to everyone around them, and should be avoided when driving. This is turning into a meme.

Here in Silicon Valley where Tesla's are swarming like mayflies, I've had people on freeways move away from me in what look like avoidance. I don't want to be the guy that gets harassed by coal rollers for driving an EV, and I also don't want to be the guy who is considered a threat because of my car.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Trolls like these that cause issues in our society. If you don’t like the system don’t use it. Simple! Tesla is doing its hardest to ensure beta is in hands of responsible drivers. What else do you want?

Let the company innovate or china will take over…

Amen. Well put!

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

The part where he suggests that we should not be putting other people at risk is not wrong. It's like drunk driving- it's great for you, terrible for everyone else, and very selfish.

On a related point, am I the only one who is concerned that Tesla's are getting a reputation for being erratic and dangerous on the roads? I know most people here don't get out much, but if you skim social sites like Imgur, Reddit, and even the hated Facebook you'll see people commenting about how Tesla's are dangerous to everyone around them, and should be avoided when driving. This is turning into a meme.

Here in Silicon Valley where Tesla's are swarming like mayflies, I've had people on freeways move away from me in what look like avoidance. I don't want to be the guy that gets harassed by coal rollers for driving an EV, and I also don't want to be the guy who is considered a threat because of my car.

Good points for sure. “Coal rollers”… it’s funny, in my line of work, I deal with a lot of “coal rollers”, the biggest conversation piece is the fact I drive a Tesla. After talking with them, they all are actually really into them after I answer questions about the car.

In fact, one of my customer who’s daily driver was a 2020 Chevy Silverado High Country Duramax I took for a ride, later asked me for a referral code and ordered a 2021 LR M3. Still drives his Duramax for certain occasions, but absolutely loves his 3. One of his coal rolling buddies just took delivery of a Plaid a few weeks ago.

We’re all country bumkins, have vintage 2 stoke snowmobiles, big diesel tractors, $hit, my zero turn LAWNMOWER is diesel (John Deere 997) but these cars are awesome.