Actor Paul Walker Dead - Fiery Porsche Crash

[brianman]

Concentrate on competence in decision making and everything else takes care of itself.

I fell like I'm reading political documents from the 1700s. In case it's not clear, that's a compliment.

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I suspect we've all made bad decisions in our lives and those of us here have been fortunate enough to have not encountered the conditions that led to the loss of these two lives. We will never know exactly what happened & I have no need to pass judgment on who was at fault. There but for the Grace of God ...

I hope all family members find peace.

There you go again, bonnie.

"You must spread some reputation around..."
Darn it.

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Random, but it looks like the speed limit on that section was recently changed from 35MPH to 45MPH.

Once again, I'm a little scared that TEG might get a government job someday and put us all in our place (by using big brother data).

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

@RobStark

This back and forth between you and me is based on a misreading on my part of your first post. I should have started out by writing something like this instead:

The Communist and the Fascist can make a compelling case that virtually all your actions affect others.

How much and what you eat affects healthcare cost.

What you drive affects the price of oil which directly affects the national economy.

How many children you have affects the near future of the economy.

Are we left with only the freedom to be perfect?

Why do you drag Fascists and Communists into this? Isn’t it obvious that individual actions affect others?

…/ Are we left with only the freedom to be perfect?

No. You’re left with the freedom to not deliberately hurt other people.




But since we also ended up here:

You seem to be splitting the Communist and Fascist. Same thing. The total state just different rhetoric.

The case for the total state controlling our choices is everywhere.

Elites deciding logically what is the best choice and imposing it on every one by force of the state always seems prudent on the surface.

I don’t know how you, and the people around you think, but in the national public discourse in Sweden – making a very clear distinction between on one hand the underlying ideology that is called Communism, and on the other hand the underlying ideology that is called Fascism – is about as uncontroversial as it gets.

Why do you think Communism as an idea was so compelling that it came from nowhere and toppled the ruling regime in the largest country on earth?

It’s because the starting point – the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels published in 1848 – was basically a dream about a society where all human beings – women as well as men – had the same value, and that everyone had the right to be free. A society where everyone, every worker, had a say.

Now in reality – that did not end up becoming the end result. The end result was just another version of an authoritarian dictatorship where basically one man ended up deciding everything. So they basically ended up in same place where they started. And because all of this coincided with previously unprecedented technological advancements, the consequences of the actions of that one man, ended up being on a completely different scale than anything previously in history. Arguably though with the exception of the consequences that followed from the actions of Hitler and whoever were instrumental in his rise to power in Germany[SUP]1[/SUP].

But do you honestly believe that this end result was what they all dreamt about when they set out?

Regarding Fascism: The underlying ideology behind Spain under Franco, or Italy under Mussolini, was something completely different.



[SUP]1[/SUP]And it’s possible that imperial Japan leading up to WWII, and also all the western colonial powers deserve to be mentioned here as well, but my knowledge of this period of history is unfortunately currently somewhat limited.

 

[brianman]

We just can't seem to stay out of politics on this forum.

It’s because the starting point – the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels published in 1848 – was basically a dream about a society where all human beings – women as well as men – (a) had the same value, and (b) that everyone had the right to be free. A society where (c) everyone, every worker, (d) had a say.

(a) By any political definition of value that I would accept, I would reject this assertion from the beginning.
(b) Somewhat agree but not totally. Prisons are an example of containers for people that have forfeited said right by abuse/misuse of it.
(c) "Everyone" is being classified as a "worker". This is flawed. Simple examples: infants, elderly.
(d) Also, not everyone should have a say (IMO). Or at least not an equal say. Prison inhabitants are one. Infants are another (partly because they don't have the ability to communicate anything interesting yet). I'm aware that these two examples are quite an interesting juxtaposition.

Just from these problems alone you can recognize alternate themes like "accumulating wealth while in your prime years to pay for your expenses when you can no longer work". From there you can quickly bridge to topics like "incentives" for useful work, and reward for ingenuity and taking (sometimes reasonable, sometimes not) risks that lead to innovation. Themes like this are antithetical to the thoughts of such dreams. Do you think people with the skills and drive of Elon should be paid the same wage as the cafeteria janitor? Eek.


If your starting points are flawed, you can produce all kinds of interesting conclusions.

if (false) { store_infinity_energy(); }

if (sample_size == 2) { wild_speculation_with_statistics(); }

 

[dennis]

Can we please return to talking about Paul Walker, the Carrera GT and car fires instead of politics? :crying:

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ Do you think people with the skills and drive of Elon should be paid the same wage as the cafeteria janitor? Eek. /...

You are making a false assumption. You assume that what I describe above is my political opinion/preference. IT'S NOT. And nowhere did I say that it was.

 

[brianman]

Sorry, dennis.

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@Brianman.

You are making a false assumption. You assume that what I describe above is my political opinion/preference. It’s not. And nowhere did I say that it was.

I think "you" (Swedish) are reading too much into "you"/"your" (general) in my previous post.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ I think "you" (Swedish) are reading too much into "you"/"your" (general) in my previous post.

Sorry for the confusion.

Fair enough. And you are right in that what I outlined above was the general concept. So yes, your a-d are valid.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Can we please return to talking about Paul Walker, the Carrera GT and car fires instead of politics? :crying:

Ok, back on topic:

Maybe now it’s Porsche’s turn to receive some of that media spotlight – or laser beam – Elon was talking about recently…

Paul Walkers Death: Details Emerge About Crashed Porsche Carrera GT - The Hollywood Reporter

/.../

Paul Walker dead: Porsche Carrera GT described - Mirror Online

/...

Porsche Carrera GT: 5 reasons the car Paul Walker died in is different - CNN.com

Paul Walker's Porsche Carrera GT known for speed, difficult handling - latimes.com

Porsche That Paul Walker Died In 'Dangerous,' 'Needs Respect' | Jalopnik

Paul Walker Death Car -- Porsche Issued Warning ... Don't put 'racecar' in the Wrong Hands | TMZ.com

Paul Walker Death -- Porsches Been Sued Before Over Deadly Carrera GT | TMZ.com

Paul Walker Crash -- Leno Spun Out In Similar Porsche ... At 182 MPH! | TMZ.com

Paul Walker dead: Porsche warning over Carrera GT which Fast Furious actor died in - "this vehicle cannot drive over a Foster Beer can that is lying on its side without being damaged" - Mirror Online

 

[TylerCA]

Ok, back on topic:

Maybe now it’s Porsche’s turn to receive some of that media spotlight – or laser beam – Elon was talking about recently…

Porsche Carrera GT: 5 reasons the car Paul Walker died in is different - CNN.com

Paul Walker's Porsche Carrera GT known for speed, difficult handling - latimes.com

Porsche That Paul Walker Died In 'Dangerous,' 'Needs Respect' | Jalopnik

Paul Walker Death Car -- Porsche Issued Warning ... Don't put 'racecar' in the Wrong Hands | TMZ.com

Paul Walker Death -- Porsches Been Sued Before Over Deadly Carrera GT | TMZ.com

Paul Walker Crash -- Leno Spun Out In Similar Porsche ... At 182 MPH! | TMZ.com

Paul Walker dead: Porsche warning over Carrera GT which Fast Furious actor died in - "this vehicle cannot drive over a Foster Beer can that is lying on its side without being damaged" - Mirror Online

To be absolutely fair, the CGT is not as difficult to drive as the media portrays it to be. The major hurdle any CGT owner will face is the clutch, so it indeed is not for the faint of heart. However, it realistically only takes several hundred miles of seat time for one to get used to this car. Understanding the car and respecting it are two very important factors to a CGT ownership. Not to say that this particular incident the owner didn't have knowledge of this car, but it was a combination of speed, possibly a slight miscalculation, and quite a bit of bad luck that created such a horrible tragedy. When the stars are aligned to be against you, there's not much you can do to fight fate.

I have over 11k on my odo on the CGT and know over 2 dozen CGT owners. We all know that this vehicle deserves full attention when driving it, but really is not that bad once you get a handle on the specific driving characteristics.

 

[lolachampcar]

Loss of drive == lifting. If the car was side loaded, it likely went around (guess on my part).

Tyler, the CGT is probably the most neutral street car I have driven (not counting early 911s which really should not count). If you are ok with that which you seem to be then you are right, all is fine. I think the reaction comes from the Top Gear types that just want to jump in it and start stabbing around the throttle. Results are predictable and the reputation will follow. This is why mfgs dial so much understeer in so as to save these people from themselves. Porsche trusted the driver with the CGT.

If Rodas owned the car, he surely new its manners.

 

[Mr X]

Cried again. :crying:

RIP O' Connor

 

[bareyb]

Paul Walker Burned Alive In ICE Wreck

They just released the autopsy results and Paul Walker did not die from the Collision he died in the fire when the Porsche exploded. The inside of his lungs were burned. Not a great way to go. And yet, not one mention of how unsafe gasoline cars are or calls to action for NHTSA… Amazing to me the media's double standards...

As tragic as this is, at least it puts it right in the public's face how unsafe Gasoline cars are in fires and how they tend to explode and set the occupants on fire... :scared: Kind of makes our little fires look like nothing much to talk about… I hope this puts things into perspective for people who are so sure that Teslas Battery Packs are unsafe.

 

[Shumdit]

While I very much want to rub ICE fires that happen everyday back into the smug faces of people who seem to go out of their way to tell me I am driving a ticking bomb the truth is that ICE fires do not get much, if any media coverage since they are so common. This event would not be noteworthy except for the famous and popular actor who perished and as much as I would love to tell everyone about it, I simply don't know if I can. It's so morbid knowing those 2 men died and likely one of them (Walker) died in the manner you described. Terrible way to go. It would have been a better example to share if both men were able to walk away from the accident. Then again, it likely would not have even made the local news had that been the case.

 

[bareyb]

Unfortunately for it to get any kind of attention, somebody famous had to die. People die in ICE fires every single day. And yet, the media wants to focus on Electric Vehicles and make them out to be unsafe technology. Hypocrites. It's complete misdirection and as bad as I feel for the guys that died in that crash, it couldn't have come at a better time. I haven't heard anyone bashing Teslas for fire safety since. It completely guts their argument.

You can bet your life that any time anyone wants to feign concern about fires in Teslas to me, I'll be talking about Paul Walker burning alive in that Porsche that exploded. It's unfortunate that the truth had to come out this way, but it's also unfortunate that Tesla's stock took such a beating over nothing, and that they have been relentlessly tortured by Stock sites and the Media ever since. Everything happens for a reason and this needed to happen to drag people's heads back to reality about EVs and their relative safety compared to ICE vehicles.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I can't say I'll be bringing it up. Terrible situation.

The GT is difficult to control, and probably on the borderline of being deemed a design flaw. Porsche settled a lawsuit a few years back rather than letting that be a potential headline. Having been in one myself, they're terrifying... and great fun.

I told this story elsewhere, but a professional driver friend of mine took me out in one awhile back. After, I told him the car felt like it was trying to kill us the whole time we were out there. He replied, "It was. You're welcome." We had a laugh, but as a serious matter, it's incredibly difficult to drive. Morbidity aside, not exactly a great comparison to a family car.

 

[bareyb]

Doesn't matter. It's still a car and it's still a fire. One thing I've learned recently is that the media doesn't care about the facts or fair comparisons. As cold as it may sound, this was good for Tesla and I wish it had happened right after the news about our first fire broke. Sad for the actors's family of course, but in the end, his life may have helped saved the future of EVs so his life had even greater meaning to the World than any Movie he may have made.

 

[Ride Long]

Would be interested to see if there is any serious analysis of why the car exploded in the collision. I can't help but compare it to the crash that killed Princess Diana way back in 1997. In that case a Mercedes S class sedan hit a concrete barrier at a very high rate of speed, but there was no explosion or meaningful fire. I recognize the Porsche is a radically different vehicle, but why should any vehicle capable of high speed explode in an impact?

 

[Lloyd]

The pole they hit was right in the middle of the car, and the gas tank is immediately behind the two passenger seats. Probably the worst type of accident this car could have.

I think we should close this thread. IMO

 

[Zythryn]

Would be interested to see if there is any serious analysis of why the car exploded in the collision. I can't help but compare it to the crash that killed Princess Diana way back in 1997. In that case a Mercedes S class sedan hit a concrete barrier at a very high rate of speed, but there was no explosion or meaningful fire. I recognize the Porsche is a radically different vehicle, but why should any vehicle capable of high speed explode in an impact?

It didn't "explode" and apparently it didn't burn on impact.
It took about a minute until smoke was visible. Once the fire started, it spread pretty damn quick.

 

[Ride Long]

It didn't "explode" and apparently it didn't burn on impact.
It took about a minute until smoke was visible. Once the fire started, it spread pretty damn quick.

I stand corrected. I think the question is still valid: serious fires in racing are pretty rare these days, which I am guessing has to do with a fuel tank made from composites that is extremely difficult to rupture. If this car is capable of F1 or NASCAR level speeds, one would think it would have a state-of-the-art fuel tank to reduce the chances of exactly this occurence.