Adaptive Suspension Damping… Real or Ruse? Which one do you have? Find out fast!

[callllvin]

Please see the thread “Plaid Suspension Accelerometer Test Readings in Comfort and Sport Modes” nearby. He does just what you suggest. His results show that Sport IS softer than Comfort.

I believe that conclusion is based on the higher number being softer and I don't believe that is the case. Based on my driving and the percentages I see a higher number is more resistance in the current travel direction.

 

[zoomer0056]

What I need to illustrate is that is not the case for me. As I said earlier the difference is not subtle at all. I drive in Chicago and always switch to comfort because it handles the rough roads significantly better than sport which is always a stiff ride. I wish I could take you for a ride because there is no way you would miss that it's working exactly as intended.

I think whatever test you're saying the other guy did is maybe on a Model S that is not functioning correctly. If there's some physical way that I can show that the car is cushier with comfort on just let me know!

I think there's enough information to know that there's something wrong with some of your cars. The people here that fielder system is working seem to agree with me that the difference between the two modes is stark and well-defined.

I do think it's worth resetting the car to defaults and seeing if sport and comfort work as intended as long as you don't go into the advanced screen.

I agree. My 2022 Feb MSLR definitely is more comfortable in comfort mode.

 

[Wilber]

Looks like your numbers are similar to mine. How does it feel? Is there an OBVIOUS difference in ride

please ignore this reply. i started to reply, but changed my mind and wanted to cancel. but couldnt find a way to cancel before posting. So, i am posting this to effectively cancel it! sorry.

 

[Wilber]

I believe that conclusion is based on the higher number being softer and I don't believe that is the case. Based on my driving and the percentages I see a higher number is more resistance in the current travel direction.

OK - I think i understand what you are saying. I guess I will go back to just trying the Comfort setting or the Sport setting to see if i can tell a difference now. and then do a reset of the car and try again. IF that doesnt solve things i will just sell the car. Not worth any more of my time.

 

[vcor]

One major thing left out of those that think the dynamic suspension does nothing, and those that notice a significant difference between comfort and sport is the tire size (and to a lesser extent proper tire pressure). I wonder if those that don't see a lot of difference are on 21" tires and those who notice a significant difference are on 19" tires. Just a thought. I use 19" tires and find the ride in comfort is good.

 

[SteveSchweer]

What I need to illustrate is that is not the case for me. As I said earlier the difference is not subtle at all. I drive in Chicago and always switch to comfort because it handles the rough roads significantly better than sport which is always a stiff ride. I wish I could take you for a ride because there is no way you would miss that it's working exactly as intended.

I think whatever test you're saying the other guy did is maybe on a Model S that is not functioning correctly. If there's some physical way that I can show that the car is cushier with comfort on just let me know!

I think there's enough information to know that there's something wrong with some of your cars. The people here that fielder system is working seem to agree with me that the difference between the two modes is stark and well-defined.

I do think it's worth resetting the car to defaults and seeing if sport and comfort work as intended as long as you don't go into the advanced screen.

I did try a factory reset… no improvement.

 

[glide]

One major thing left out of those that think the dynamic suspension does nothing, and those that notice a significant difference between comfort and sport is the tire size (and to a lesser extent proper tire pressure). I wonder if those that don't see a lot of difference are on 21" tires and those who notice a significant difference are on 19" tires. Just a thought. I use 19" tires and find the ride in comfort is good.

I have 19’s. No difference in ride quality.

 

[callllvin]

I did try a factory reset… no improvement.

Crap.

 

[callllvin]

I have 19’s. No difference in ride quality.

19's here..

Is anyone who thinks their suspension isn't working in northern IL? We should meet up. I drive all over north of I-80 and would swing by...

 

[Wilber]

One major thing left out of those that think the dynamic suspension does nothing, and those that notice a significant difference between comfort and sport is the tire size (and to a lesser extent proper tire pressure). I wonder if those that don't see a lot of difference are on 21" tires and those who notice a significant difference are on 19" tires. Just a thought. I use 19" tires and find the ride in comfort is good.

Thanks for the idea. But, i have 19s at the recommended tire pressure. and i cant tell difference between Comfort and Sport.

 

[WilliamG]

One major thing left out of those that think the dynamic suspension does nothing, and those that notice a significant difference between comfort and sport is the tire size (and to a lesser extent proper tire pressure). I wonder if those that don't see a lot of difference are on 21" tires and those who notice a significant difference are on 19" tires. Just a thought. I use 19" tires and find the ride in comfort is good.

I’m on 21s. Difference is obvious.

 

[Muzzman1]

Many new Model S owners are unhappy with the adjustable ride control in their cars. They feel no difference between Comfort and Sport. Others THINK that their systems are working… but can you be sure?… the “placebo effect“ is strong. When you select “Comfort“, it’s easy to convince yourself that the ride just got smoother. … even though it didn’t. To settle this issue, I performed an objective, technical analysis of the operation of my car’s suspension. This analysis PROVED what many have suspected… Adaptive Suspension Damping is NOT providing the range of ride comfort levels that the Model S/X is capable of. In my car, and many others, 5 of the 7 ride comfort settings result in the same ride… maximum harshness!… with “Sport“, ironically, being the softest! (Although still very harsh). In order to get this issue resolved, it is essential to understand how many cars have the problem, and to be able to identify them unambiguously. Fortunately, during the course of the investigation, I discovered a startling fact about the system’s user interface that directly reveals whether the system is working or not! The answer is there for the reading in the numbers labeled “percent damping“ on the “show suspension info” screen. I don’t understand why or how Tesla made this mistake, but these numbers are mislabeled. They are NOT % damping, but actually Pulse Width Modulation Duty Cycle readings! (Refer to my video for technical explanation

) PWM Duty Cycle is the “bottom line“ in this system. It is the actual electronic signal that controls the variable shocks… making them stiffer or softer. A 100% duty cycle will make the shocks as soft as possible, and a 0% duty cycle as firm as possible. Think of these numbers as “percent softness“. With this in mind, you can tell precisely how the car will ride just by reading them. For instance, if “Comfort“ results in 0% Softness, you know you’re in for a harsh ride! This whole issue is a software error. Service will tell you that ”your vehicle is performing according to specification“ because it doesn’t give them any error codes. That just means that the hardware is working properly. But the problem is real, and I’ve double checked my analysis… So, go check your numbers right now! It will only take a minute. Here’s what to do: while stopped, go to the Suspension menu, select ”show suspension information“, step on the brake to activate the system. Read and record the upper left number (Left Front Compression) for each of the 7 ride modes… Comfort, Sport, and under Advanced, each of the Ride Comfort settings from Soft to Firm… in that order. You only need to record the numbers for Left Front Compression. Record the numbers like this: Comfort 0, Sport 28, and Ride Comfort 0,0,4,8,20. (These are my numbers). If you have a working system, you will have larger percentages for the softer settings. Now, POST YOUR NUMBERS! Include the model of your car (S or X, LR or Plaid) and the delivery date. It’s very important to understand how many cars are affected by this bug, and when it started. PLEASE HELP! I’ve been working on this for six months… I believe that the only way to get it resolved is to show Tesla the magnitude of the problem. Thanks!

I watched the "scope" part of your video. Nice work.
I think you have your dampening rules backwards. The more dampening you have, the slower the hydraulic fluid passes through your dampener, thereby stiffening the dampener. (This is how it works in mechanical dampeners that I have become an expert on in the MTB world)
So it makes sense that "sport" has the highest duty cycle, that will make the dampener stiffer and that's what we want in sport. 0% in comfort is like having my valves open on my bike suspension, where it gets as plush as can be. Same in the car.
My experience has been exactly that. Sport/Track mode are utterly stiff (track mode most of course) and comfort feels like a wallowy Cadillac. .
My 2021 MS Plaid works as software indicates.
You mentioned that each solenoid behaves the same as the other rebound/compression. I don't agree with that either. Rebound is DIRECTLY related to spring rate. The faster the spring the slower the rebound must be. Im sure our airspring pressure changes related to ride height, so the rebound dampening is directly fixed to the airspring pressure I would imagine. (this paragraph I am speculating FYI)
I was tempted to do a g-meter app measurement on the same road at the same speed in different modes to show this, but I can't be bothered TBH. My butt dyno confirms that it's working well.
If you are in the LA area, I'd be happy to meet up and give you a ride.

 

[SteveSchweer]

I watched the "scope" part of your video. Nice work.
I think you have your dampening rules backwards. The more dampening you have, the slower the hydraulic fluid passes through your dampener, thereby stiffening the dampener. (This is how it works in mechanical dampeners that I have become an expert on in the MTB world)
So it makes sense that "sport" has the highest duty cycle, that will make the dampener stiffer and that's what we want in sport. 0% in comfort is like having my valves open on my bike suspension, where it gets as plush as can be. Same in the car.
My experience has been exactly that. Sport/Track mode are utterly stiff (track mode most of course) and comfort feels like a wallowy Cadillac. .
My 2021 MS Plaid works as software indicates.
You mentioned that each solenoid behaves the same as the other rebound/compression. I don't agree with that either. Rebound is DIRECTLY related to spring rate. The faster the spring the slower the rebound must be. Im sure our airspring pressure changes related to ride height, so the rebound dampening is directly fixed to the airspring pressure I would imagine. (this paragraph I am speculating FYI)
I was tempted to do a g-meter app measurement on the same road at the same speed in different modes to show this, but I can't be bothered TBH. My butt dyno confirms that it's working well.
If you are in the LA area, I'd be happy to meet up and give you a ride.

I agree with you regarding the damping... ie. Higher % is stiffer. The problem is, the numbers presented here are NOT damping! Think about it… 0% damping, as many of the settings read, is not possible unless the damper is missing! The numbers are actually the duty cycle of the voltage applied to the shock solenoid… higher duty cycle provides more power to the solenoid, opens the valve farther, and softens the shock. 0% means that the valve remains fully closed providing the stiffest ride possible. Since yours seems to work right, I would really like to know what your numbers are. Would you please read the Front Left Compression number for each of the ride modes.. Comfort, Sport, and the 5 slider settings from Soft to Firm? Thanks! Also, see the nearby thread called Plaid Suspension Accelerometer test readings. That shows far higher g-forces in Comfort than in Sport.

 

[Muzzman1]

I agree with you regarding the damping... ie. Higher % is stiffer. The problem is, the numbers presented here are NOT damping! Think about it… 0% damping, as many of the settings read, is not possible unless the damper is missing! The numbers are actually the duty cycle of the voltage applied to the shock solenoid… higher duty cycle provides more power to the solenoid, opens the valve farther, and softens the shock. 0% means that the valve remains fully closed providing the stiffest ride possible. Since yours seems to work right, I would really like to know what your numbers are. Would you please read the Front Left Compression number for each of the ride modes.. Comfort, Sport, and the 5 slider settings from Soft to Firm? Thanks! Also, see the nearby thread called Plaid Suspension Accelerometer test readings. That shows far higher g-forces in Comfort than in Sport.

Sorry, I dont have the equipment to make that happen, furthermore, I dont have the time to take apart the tub for these values.

Maybe consider that the power to the solenoid does the opposite, it closes the valve, rather than open it? That's def something to consider, and I suspect that is exactly the case.

 

[NeuroRad]

Quite noticeable difference for me. Sport simply too harsh for daily driving.

 

[callllvin]

Sorry, I dont have the equipment to make that happen, furthermore, I dont have the time to take apart the tub for these values.

Maybe consider that the power to the solenoid does the opposite, it closes the valve, rather than open it? That's def something to consider, and I suspect that is exactly the case.

This is what I absolutely believe is the case. I have no idea if the percentage represents the relationship to the solenoid but it represents how closed the damper valve is.

When driving in comfort it is usually around 4-12%. Once you hit a bump that is higher than ground level it absorbs that bump and then immediately shoots up the percentage to stiffen the shock which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

We have to clarify whether the bump is something higher than ground level or lower to analyze the suspension behavior. When it's higher, we want an initial softness to absorb the bump without lifting the car body but we need to stiffen the shock once it's absorbed to prevent further travel AND any body drop that would occur on that corner. The shocks damping is NOT constant and it does NOT get SOFTER on a bump. It's initially soft then stiff. The numbers in the suspension data support that.

I really think Steve is drawing the wrong conclusions. That's not to say there isn't a problem because I do believe those guys are having some type of issue but I believe the suspension data for my car is showing correct data. Someone with working suspension needs to meet up with someone without working suspension and compare notes.

Until we have some accurate test that everyone can run this is all subjective ATM.

 

[SteveSchweer]

Sorry, I dont have the equipment to make that happen, furthermore, I dont have the time to take apart the tub for these values.

Maybe consider that the power to the solenoid does the opposite, it closes the valve, rather than open it? That's def something to consider, and I suspect that is exactly the case.

You don’t need any equipment! As I explained in my post, the values displayed as “percentage damping“ are NOT percentage damping but ARE solenoid voltage duty cycle. They are a direct window to the operation of the valves. Getting the numbers I need takes about one minute…. Go to the Suspension Info screen, set the ride to Comfort, step on the brake, and record the number for Left Front Compression. Set the ride to Sport and record it again. Then record it for Advanced, Ride Comfort Soft through Firm. You should have 7 numbers ie. 0,28,0,0,4,8,20 (these are my numbers). BTW I have previously proven that the valves are Normally Closed. Thanks!

 

[goatcat]

You don’t need any equipment! As I explained in my post, the values displayed as “percentage damping“ are NOT percentage damping but ARE solenoid voltage duty cycle. They are a direct window to the operation of the valves. Getting the numbers I need takes about one minute…. Go to the Suspension Info screen, set the ride to Comfort, step on the brake, and record the number for Left Front Compression. Set the ride to Sport and record it again. Then record it for Advanced, Ride Comfort Soft through Firm. You should have 7 numbers ie. 0,28,0,0,4,8,20 (these are my numbers). BTW I have previously proven that the valves are Normally Closed. Thanks!

Is it possible that the wires to the solenoid on your car are swapped? If the signal is PWM then this would likely reverse the behavior and could explain why some of these cars behave differently.

 

[callllvin]

You don’t need any equipment! As I explained in my post, the values displayed as “percentage damping“ are NOT percentage damping but ARE solenoid voltage duty cycle. They are a direct window to the operation of the valves. Getting the numbers I need takes about one minute…. Go to the Suspension Info screen, set the ride to Comfort, step on the brake, and record the number for Left Front Compression. Set the ride to Sport and record it again. Then record it for Advanced, Ride Comfort Soft through Firm. You should have 7 numbers ie. 0,28,0,0,4,8,20 (these are my numbers). BTW I have previously proven that the valves are Normally Closed. Thanks!

I think you are stating things as fact that are currently your theory. One of the most glaring differences I have is your impression that the valves are closed by default. I believe it's actually the opposite. Comfort has a low setting which allows the least resistant travel until the bump above the surface of the road is hit. Once the initial absorption occurs it then stiffens the shock to reduce the travel further.

Again, I am not disputing that you may have a problem but I do not agree with your conclusions.

 

[callllvin]

Is it possible that the wires to the solenoid on your car are swapped? If the signal is PWM then this would likely reverse the behavior and could explain why some of these cars behave differently.

I really wish I could trade car rides with someone.