Adding a charger to my 100 amp panel

[TechnoBabble]

I'm in Ontario. Would anyone here have experience using a "demonstrated load" calculation instead of upgrading the service?
I can acquire my full years power consumption from hydro one which shows what I use each day, even down to the hour.
I have read from different forums that this information can be used to justify no upgrading to 200 amps if my consumption is really low.
What exactly do I have to show to my electrician or ESA inspector from the data I download from hydro one?
Thank you.

 

[hingisfan]

Just call the electrician and ask him to install it. If you're worried about the load, get an hpwc and just use a 30 or 40 amp breaker.

 

[darkenergy]

While this probably isn't a help with the "demonstrated load" calc. We have a 100A service, a 40A circuit with an EVSE in our garage. Toronto Hydro did the installation and neither the electrician nor the ESA inspector seemed overly concerned. 5 years of fault free operation.

The Tesla EVSE can be set for various circuit capacities.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

My house has a subpanel with a 60A fuse (yes, fuse) which is further divided into 45A and 15A at the garage. Previous owner use it as a welding workshop.

I'm running 36A(80% of 45A) without any issues. Calculate your major appliances for summer overnights (AC, Fridge, Washer/Dryer) and see what they total to. Shouldn't be an issue imho to install a 40A HPWC.

 

[TechnoBabble]

My house has a subpanel with a 60A fuse (yes, fuse) which is further divided into 45A and 15A at the garage. Previous owner use it as a welding workshop.

I'm running 36A(80% of 45A) without any issues. Calculate your major appliances for summer overnights (AC, Fridge, Washer/Dryer) and see what they total to. Shouldn't be an issue imho to install a 40A HPWC.

Thanks. I have been told that ESA now wants either a load calculation OR demonstrated load calculation for any new circuits that are 30 amps or greater due to the recent release of many model 3's in Ontario.

 

[TechnoBabble]

While this probably isn't a help with the "demonstrated load" calc. We have a 100A service, a 40A circuit with an EVSE in our garage. Toronto Hydro did the installation and neither the electrician nor the ESA inspector seemed overly concerned. 5 years of fault free operation.

The Tesla EVSE can be set for various circuit capacities.

Thanks. I have been told that ESA now wants either a load calculation OR demonstrated load calculation for any new circuits that are 30 amps or greater due to the recent release of many model 3's in Ontario.

 

[noicepls]

You can also set the charge current to something smaller than max (e.g. 16A instead of 32A) and start charge time to overnight when there is less competition for power consumption (e.g. no washer/dryer/dishwasher/AC/TV/computers/printer/sewing machine/oven/stove hob/lights/central vac/etc.) and you'll be fine, I think.

 

[darkenergy]

Thanks. I have been told that ESA now wants either a load calculation OR demonstrated load calculation for any new circuits that are 30 amps or greater due to the recent release of many model 3's in Ontario.

Looks like it isn't so much the ESA as the 2018 electrical code updates. ON electrical code - 2018 changes for vehicle charger load calcs

Your electrician should be able to provide this for you. If not, find another electrician.

 

[TechnoBabble]

Looks like it isn't so much the ESA as the 2018 electrical code updates. ON electrical code - 2018 changes for vehicle charger load calcs

Your electrician should be able to provide this for you. If not, find another electrician.

Thanks but my electrician cannot access my hydro records. Apparently only I can access them and download them. I just wanted to know what this information is supposed to look like to show to the inspector.
Am I supposed to show the highest date of use or highest hour? Minute? In amps? kWh? On a graph?

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Thanks but my electrician cannot access my hydro records. Apparently only I can access them and download them. I just wanted to know what this information is supposed to look like to show to the inspector.
Am I supposed to show the highest date of use or highest hour? Minute? In amps? kWh? On a graph?

7PM to 7AM usage is good enough. Depending on your daily routine, you may have to delay charging until 12AM to avoid issues with evening house power use.

I've never had an issue to start charging at 7PM even with the TV, Fridge, Lights, and AC on during the summer months. Washer/Dryer are only used on the weekends when the car is not being charged.

With a 32A HPWC setting (40A Breaker) - you will get 47km to 50km per hour, depending on the voltage delivered by your supplier. That's plenty to top up the car to 90% battery even in the dead of winter over a 8 hour period.

Depending on your commute, a 24A setting (30A Breaker) should suite everyone's needs. A bigger service is only required if more than one EV in the house and lots of short trips are being done.

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm in Ontario. Would anyone here have experience using a "demonstrated load" calculation instead of upgrading the service?
I can acquire my full years power consumption from hydro one which shows what I use each day, even down to the hour.
I have read from different forums that this information can be used to justify no upgrading to 200 amps if my consumption is really low.
What exactly do I have to show to my electrician or ESA inspector from the data I download from hydro one?
Thank you.

Upgrading service can be pretty expensive, lots of things have to be done.

Before you go there, determine what you really need. I charge at 32A only once or twice a week, since that's the plug that I have. My wife charges off of 120V 15A and she still only charges a few times a week. Don't just assume that you need a lot of current.

 

[Blu-Ion]

I have 100 AMP panel, 40AMP for my car (32amp load)

Truth be told, if you would turn on all your appliances , AC, stove, dryer, hot tub and plug a hair dryer in all the outlets, you would trip the main breaker, but the reality is that you don't use them all at the same time. Personally, I think ESA is on a "make-work" project.
All you really need to charge a Model 3 is 20-24amp 240v load, you will get around 35km/hr of charge, plenty for 99% of users

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

I have 100 AMP panel, 40AMP for my car (32amp load)

Personally, I think ESA is on a "make-work" project.

Well it's not ESA - it's the Canadian Electrical Code, and the whole industry is concerned (correctly). ESA is often the last avenue for safety, and the enforcement arm for the code. It is not uncommon to have a stove top, oven, furnace and/or electric heat, electric water heater, dryer, and other loads on at the same time. It's not difficult to get to 100 amps. If it's exceeded by 10% or so, the individual feeders are fine, and don't trip any breakers, but the main breaker, which is rarely exercised, may not trip. The result is a slow depreciation of the wire insulation, overheating on the lugs, and perhaps a cable fault, transformer fault, or a fire.

The electrical system was not designed with another large load (EV charging) even imagined. All ESA needs to see is a demonstrated load or a load calculation to insure that you aren't quietly overloading the system.

My guess is that you are probably good. As 5_+JqckQttqck stated, he's good at 60 amps with a reduced charging load. PS: A 60 amp fuse as a main is safer than a breaker......I was in the fuse business

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Well it's not ESA - it's the Canadian Electrical Code, and the whole industry is concerned (correctly). ESA is often the last avenue for safety, and the enforcement arm for the code. It is not uncommon to have a stove top, oven, furnace and/or electric heat, electric water heater, dryer, and other loads on at the same time. It's not difficult to get to 100 amps. If it's exceeded by 10% or so, the individual feeders are fine, and don't trip any breakers, but the main breaker, which is rarely exercised, may not trip. The result is a slow depreciation of the wire insulation, overheating on the lugs, and perhaps a cable fault, transformer fault, or a fire.

The electrical system was not designed with another large load (EV charging) even imagined. All ESA needs to see is a demonstrated load or a load calculation to insure that you aren't quietly overloading the system.

My guess is that you are probably good. As 5_+JqckQttqck stated, he's good at 60 amps with a reduced charging load. PS: A 60 amp fuse as a main is safer than a breaker......I was in the fuse business

If I keep the lights off in the garage, I could probably get away with 48A setting (Full 60Amps)... although the wires to the HPWC would catch fire - unnecessary performance gain for way too much risk!

 

[Darthbenji]

I had my HPWC installed last June. I have a 100amp panel and charge at 48A. It was fully inspected and passed. I’ve never had a problem. The only thing I make sure of is not using my dryer while charging.

 

[bijan]

I had my HPWC installed last June. I have a 100amp panel and charge at 48A. It was fully inspected and passed. I’ve never had a problem. The only thing I make sure of is not using my dryer while charging.

That seems like it shouldn't. But glad it worked for you. I would have liked to charge at 48 amps. Mine is 32 amps and electrician wasn't sure it'd be ok and was pretty sure 48amps wouldn't pass. But inspector didn't really ask any questions so maybe...

I haven't checked with AC on yet but with dryer and oven on and car charging I think I was at 70 amps or so according to the meter. Think I should be barely ok with all that plus AC.

 

[Darthbenji]

I typically charge at night after midnight when usage is low. I have however charged in the summer with AC going, appliances and my pool pump without issue. When I booked the install I assumed it would be 32A and the electrician said I could handle 48A and it passed. The inspector took a good look too. So long I assumed he’s say no but didn’t.

 

[richyrich]

Your other option is getting a charge controller fitted that will disconnect the charger if the house load is too high. Fully ESA-approved and a lot cheaper than a service upgrade. Mine has tripped twice in 8 months and just resumes when the load drops. Recommended vs winging it or spending big on an upgrade.

 

[TechnoBabble]

Your other option is getting a charge controller fitted that will disconnect the charger if the house load is too high. Fully ESA-approved and a lot cheaper than a service upgrade. Mine has tripped twice in 8 months and just resumes when the load drops. Recommended vs winging it or spending big on an upgrade.

What did the controller cost you on top of the installation?

 

[George I]

I have a 40amp HPWC and 100a service. The cable from the main box to the HPWC is rate at 50a continuous (the electrician said "it costs you a tiny bit more but you & I can sleep better at night").
In a week less than 4years of use my house breaker has tripped once. It was on a VERY hot summer night when the ac was running. Voltage, which usually runs 238-245v on the car display when charging, was running (for the first and only time) at 219v the following morning. I suspect it was secondary to all the neighbouring ac's being on. I figure that with the lower voltage the fridge and freezer, especially on starting, drew more than their usual amps and that combined with the car charging and ac was enough to set trip the main breaker.
Of note, when I had the HPWC installed I was told that I should have no problems unless I try to run the oven on self clean + run the air conditioner + charge the car at its 40a max.
In the last 3years , except for the rare occasion when I need a quicker charge, I charge at 32-36a. I do that as it puts less stress on the ac to dc converter which I've read is one of the few charging items that tends to wear out.
So moral of the story, charge you car at ~32-36a on a 100a panel and don't worry about it. Just don't run the oven on self clean with your dryer and ac on. If some of those are gas powered you have even less issues.