Adding Charger at Work

[irish26]

We are building a new facility at work and I’d like to install 2 charging stations in the new parking lot. We are in manufacturing so these chargers will really just be for the employees and maybe the occasional guest. This is just a convenience for employees, we don’t plan on charging anyone for usage.

My question is, should we just put two 14-50 plugs out there? Or go through the trouble of getting proper charging equipment such as Clippercreek or Juicebox? If we go that route, I think J1772 plugs seem to be the most versatile. What are the big benefits of the proper systems?

 

[SSedan]

Frequent R&R of 14-50 plugs is not good so I would do a hardwired J1772.

Do you have concerns about public use? I know one local employer went with ChargePoint units so they can grant access, and it is a paid system not free. Probably not worth your hassle.

If you want to make sure it is just approved folks maybe lock the cables give the front desk and affected employees keys.

 

[AEdennis]

Some localities provide incentives to install “proper” charging equipment. And if you want to control access to the stations, a networked solution would be helpful.

 

[Watts_Up]

Some localities provide incentives to install “proper” charging equipment.
And if you want to control access to the stations, a networked solution would be helpful.

Tesla offers such program Charging Partners | Tesla

 

[mociaf9]

We are building a new facility at work and I’d like to install 2 charging stations in the new parking lot. We are in manufacturing so these chargers will really just be for the employees and maybe the occasional guest. This is just a convenience for employees, we don’t plan on charging anyone for usage.

My question is, should we just put two 14-50 plugs out there? Or go through the trouble of getting proper charging equipment such as Clippercreek or Juicebox? If we go that route, I think J1772 plugs seem to be the most versatile. What are the big benefits of the proper systems?

Less liability with the hardwired options that have some added safety measures, wider usability for different makes/models of EVs, potentially more control over limiting power delivery should it be advantageous to do so at some point, same with possibility to change to a paid model, easier to track data on usage, etc.

 

[cwerdna]

Frequent R&R of 14-50 plugs is not good so I would do a hardwired J1772.

Do you have concerns about public use? I know one local employer went with ChargePoint units so they can grant access, and it is a paid system not free. Probably not worth your hassle.

If you want to make sure it is just approved folks maybe lock the cables give the front desk and affected employees keys.

Yep on all of the above.

My work has dozens of ChargePoint CT4000 EVSEs. They are free to employees and access is restricted to employees only. Random people cannot use them. Some Bay Area companies have these EVSEs (e.g. Google and Apple) and they're usually also restricted. Facebook has a ton and I'd expect them to be either restricted to employees or their EV valets. FB also has some DC fast chargers.

I don't work in facilities but I've seen quotes posted online for other places (e.g. govt related). Their EVSEs are very expensive and there are ongoing ChargePoint subscription fees.

Installing NEMA 14-50 outlets really limits who can use them. I've been driving pure BEVs since end of July 2013. I have NOTHING that can plug into NEMA 14-50 and never have. My prior '13 Leaf, current '13 Leaf and '19 Bolt do NOT come with NEMA 14-50 plugs on their EVSEs. Ditto for many many other EVs/PHEVs. I've posted about this before: Why ChargePoint is Terrible.

Even Tesla doesn't include a NEMA 14-50 adapter any longer.

Installing J1772 EVSE == universal. Every single consumer highway legal mass-market EV/PHEV automobile sold in the US since Dec 2010 can use J1772 directly except Teslas, which come with a free J1772 adapter. I bet most if not all the major electric motorcycles sold in the US since Dec 2010 are in the same boat.

A cheap solution w/a not so expensive J1772 EVSE that has no subscription fees would be ChargeGuard Access Control Kit | ClipperCreek w/one of their compatible EVSEs. I've seen these w/the key lock at 2+ different locations myself.

 

[irish26]

Thanks everyone. All really good points. Especially about being able to restrict to employees only.

 

[Rocky_H]

I bet most if not all the major electric motorcycles sold in the US since Dec 2010 are in the same boat.

No, the electric motorcycle market really lagged behind in that area. I have a 2013 Zero S. Zero seems to be the largest maker of electric motorcycles in the U.S., and my 2013 didn't have a J1772 port available until a year or two later, when they offered an adapter dongle kit thing that was pretty hokey. I think the newer ones now as of a few years ago can have a J1772 built-in.

 

[pb2000]

Do a survey of your employees and figure out what the ratio of Tesla to J1772 plugs (now and people interested for their next car purchase) needs to be.
If you want to go plugs, just do a mix of 5-20 and 6-20 heavy duty grade plugs and let your employees figure out the details. Not many people have 6-20 adapters and nobody is going to bother stealing power from a 120V plug, so that solves the access control problem.

Tesla wall connectors are relatively inexpensive, support power sharing on up to 16 units and you have the option of charging a modest fee to cover the cost of electricity, which partially solves the access control problem.

J1772 is the universal standard, but if 80% of your employees drive Tesla's, then this makes less sense. They also seem a bit more expensive than the Tesla wall connectors.

Unless you charge for the electricity, I wouldn't go above 208V 20A (16A), as that's enough to provide a modest benefit to employees without encouraging them to exclusively use work as a free fillup station (worst case on a 14-50 would be 208V x 40A x 7.5hrs x 5 days x 50 weeks = 15600kWh x $0.15/kWh* = $2340/yr).

*adjust for your $/kWh

 

[Rocky_H]

Tesla wall connectors are relatively inexpensive,

True

support power sharing on up to 16 units

False

and you have the option of charging a modest fee to cover the cost of electricity,

False
Damn. Over the top Tesla fans need to be honest with themselves and admit what a bungling, pathetic, broken mistake Tesla made with releasing such a buggy, incapable, unfinished product in the 3rd generation wall connector, which is way worse than the Gen 2 and costs just as much! It is missing some key features, and those things you are mentioning are still not available yet. They are things that might be available at some unknown point in the future, but it does not do those things right now.

 

[pb2000]

If the OP only wants 2 chargers right now, I simply assumed power sharing wouldn't be an issue until long after Tesla sorts out the firmware; v3 chargers each need their own circuit, so power sharing comes in only to prevent exceeding the capacity of your (sub) panel.

I didn't know the destination charger fee program wasn't implemented yet; my bad.

Chill out

 

[miimura]

I think the major companies that use restricted Chargepoint stations also do that so they can track the usage and account for it properly as a fringe benefit expense. However, I am not a CPA, so I am not 100% sure this is true.

Also, if you have more than 20 employees, I think 2 stations is thinking too small. You should really install more electrical infrastructure to serve a more realistic percentage of future electric vehicles.

 

[cwerdna]

Do a survey of your employees and figure out what the ratio of Tesla to J1772 plugs (now and people interested for their next car purchase) needs to be.
If you want to go plugs, just do a mix of 5-20 and 6-20 heavy duty grade plugs and let your employees figure out the details.

FWIW, I already posted my EV history but I've also never ever had anything that could plug into NEMA 6-20.

I could plug into NEMA 5-20 but to the EVSE (12 amp, 120 volt), it would be the same as if it were NEMA 5-15 and pull 12 amps max. I've never had an EVSE that could take full advantage of 5-20 by pulling 16 amps.

I've never heard of non-Teslas EVs/PHEVS in the US coming with an EVSE with a plug for 5-20. Off the top of my head, the only one that comes with 6-20 would be XC90 PHEV coming with Turbocord dual (NEMA 5-15 and 6-20). Not sure if they decided to include it in their other PHEVs now that their plug-in product line has grown. BMW supposedly started offering or including (not sure which) Turbocord dual starting sometime in 2017: BMW adds a performance version of its electric i3 for 2018. Not clear on which models beyond i3, if any include it.

 

[pb2000]

The Chevy bolt has a dual 120/240V 12A EVSE if you're willing to use a suicide cord or cut the end off. Amazon also sells J1772 EVSE in any flavor you want.

 

[SSedan]

I think the major companies that use restricted Chargepoint stations also do that so they can track the usage and account for it properly as a fringe benefit expense. However, I am not a CPA, so I am not 100% sure this is true.

Also, if you have more than 20 employees, I think 2 stations is thinking too small. You should really install more electrical infrastructure to serve a more realistic percentage of future electric vehicles.

I could tell you lived in Cali before clicking your profile.
The local employer I know of with restricted Chargepoints has 1000 employees and only ever seen 2 different EVs there........
In Cali sure 2/20 isn't enough, but elsewhere would be completely reasonable.

 

[miimura]

I could tell you lived in Cali before clicking your profile.
The local employer I know of with restricted Chargepoints has 1000 employees and only ever seen 2 different EVs there........
In Cali sure 2/20 isn't enough, but elsewhere would be completely reasonable.

Keep in mind that I didn't say that he should install more than 2 units today. I said they should install more electrical infrastructure, meaning electrical capacity to install more in the future. Any new construction of a parking lot should have electrical capacity for 10% of the parking spaces to plug in. That applies all over the country. It will eventually be used. I can guarantee it.

 

[cwerdna]

The Chevy bolt has a dual 120/240V 12A EVSE if you're willing to use a suicide cord or cut the end off.

Some folks have used adapters into order to plug into whatever 240 volt outlet they have.

It doesn't officially (from the markings or from GM) support 240 volts, but apparently isn't (AFAIK) damaged by feeding it 240 volts. However, it'll only pull 12 amps at max at 240 volts

This is unlike the L1 120 volt 12 amp NEMA 5-15 EVSE that '11 to '17 Leafs ship with (there are at least two revisions). It will work for a bit at 240 volts but will eventually be damaged by it, possibly irreparably. Proper modifications need to be made to it for it to work properly at 240 volts w/o being damaged.

US market '18+ Leafs of certain equipment levels also only ship with a NEMA 5-15 120 volt EVSE. Some '18+ Leafs do ship with a NEMA 5-15/14-50 120/240 volt EVSE. There is no provision to adjust the pilot signal downwards from the 30 amps it advertises to the attached vehicle.

Amazon also sells J1772 EVSE in any flavor you want.

Sure, and so do many many other places. I've not found the need to shell out that $ for that. And, the problem w/leaving a non-permanent driver-owned EVSE out in a parking lot or parking structure is that it could get stolen.

And, yes, people have gotten their EVSEs stolen before. I've seen posts about it more than once.