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Additional anti-theft measures? (PINs etc.)
- Thread starter jandkw
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- Model S User Interface
NigelM
Recovering Member
There's nothing to stop a thief pairing a BT phone when he/she steals the fob. Oh, I don't usually have BT activated on my phone as it drains the battery; so I'd have to get my phone out, enter PIN, go to settings, activate BT and then engage drive?
All these ideas fill a slow Sunday afternoon but they're all targeted at a pretty rare event. Really hard to see any argument for Tesla to invest in more security measures. If the NYMI bracelet makes it to market that could be the ideal anti-theft solution.
All these ideas fill a slow Sunday afternoon but they're all targeted at a pretty rare event. Really hard to see any argument for Tesla to invest in more security measures. If the NYMI bracelet makes it to market that could be the ideal anti-theft solution.
Right, Woof - like most dogs, you can count only up to two. I noticed FOUR: those two PLUS a breathalyzer for salivary/gastric chemical identification, and the latest in knee-cartilaginous ID.
The only problem with all this that I see is that it most likely will limit the geriatric set from being able to complete all functions in the required 0.037 nanoseconds.
Separately....over 44,000 hits on this thread in 48 or so hours. A new record????
Not to go down the rat hole of "what ifs" but:
Must be a previously paired device, not a new one, and one must have set the "extra security unless present" option after pairing.
NYMI uses bluetooth. I didn't say it had to be your phone, I said a "bluetooth device". Could be a headset, or a fitbit, or a NYMI if you want.
If you find it annoying to use, don't enable it.
NigelM
Recovering Member
So never get a new phone?
Forgive my deliberate nitpicking, I'm just making the point that no solution is foolproof and just about every solution is more complicated than we imagine. If additional (to key) security measures were worthwhile I'd imagine that there would have been more consumer demand and we'd have seen it on other vehicles before now.
Going back (sorry) to many people's (mine included) original thought. Optional PIN that has a menu that controls 'valet' and 'teenage driver' (my wife would include me in this category) modes. I would allow the choice on max mph on these settings, similar to the air suspension mph settings now available.
Hi, @mitch672,
Yup. But you don't *use* both simultaneously. You use the PIN as your default case, and either have decided to carry the key with you as well "just in case", or have squirreled the key away somewhere for backup.
But as far as I can tell, this discussion of the Tesla PIN -- if enabled -- amounts to using the fob *and* the PIN. Belt-and-suspenders. Neglecting the cost for Tesla to implement & support, it's still redundant. Use the fob, Luke.
It works really well, and so far out of 30K+ owners and several years of Roadster+S, we've got 1-4 cases of stolen S's to chew on.
I don't want Tesla even to waste the time it will take to log this issue into their system, and then REPEATEDLY reprioritize it every few weeks or every quarter depending on their product management cycle, even if it continues to bump along at a very low priority level. It's actually quite distracting to tote around a bunch of low-priority wish list items that are highly unlikely ever to ascend to a priority that causes further investment. I'd rather they spend their time on all of the more widely beneficial things they can do with Model S and newer models.
Alan
P.S. All of what you describe as use cases for your house's PIN can be achieved with the Tesla fob, although I have no idea if they log the data and their APIs make that data available to you.
P.P.S. Noticed discussion of "angry" but no one is actually angry in this thread. I think the thread is very interesting for the parts about the crash. I don't know why I had to post about the fob/PIN issue. Way too much time on my hands, I guess. I think I was triggered by bad memories of being dogged by hundreds of low priority feature requests that were never, ever going to be implemented but someone, somewhere could then tell someone else, "we're tracking it, and if we ever have enough resources...."
Yup. But you don't *use* both simultaneously. You use the PIN as your default case, and either have decided to carry the key with you as well "just in case", or have squirreled the key away somewhere for backup.
But as far as I can tell, this discussion of the Tesla PIN -- if enabled -- amounts to using the fob *and* the PIN. Belt-and-suspenders. Neglecting the cost for Tesla to implement & support, it's still redundant. Use the fob, Luke.
It works really well, and so far out of 30K+ owners and several years of Roadster+S, we've got 1-4 cases of stolen S's to chew on.I don't want Tesla even to waste the time it will take to log this issue into their system, and then REPEATEDLY reprioritize it every few weeks or every quarter depending on their product management cycle, even if it continues to bump along at a very low priority level. It's actually quite distracting to tote around a bunch of low-priority wish list items that are highly unlikely ever to ascend to a priority that causes further investment. I'd rather they spend their time on all of the more widely beneficial things they can do with Model S and newer models.
Alan
P.S. All of what you describe as use cases for your house's PIN can be achieved with the Tesla fob, although I have no idea if they log the data and their APIs make that data available to you.
P.P.S. Noticed discussion of "angry" but no one is actually angry in this thread. I think the thread is very interesting for the parts about the crash. I don't know why I had to post about the fob/PIN issue. Way too much time on my hands, I guess. I think I was triggered by bad memories of being dogged by hundreds of low priority feature requests that were never, ever going to be implemented but someone, somewhere could then tell someone else, "we're tracking it, and if we ever have enough resources...."
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But, like most modern dogs, I don't need two (punny)! I use binary, so I only have to count from 0 to 1! And for the record I did say "at least two"
Nothing wrong with nitpicking. Get a new phone and the car will fall back to the previously arranged PIN/passcode/passphrase/whatever extra security is enabled. Enter the correct answer, or use the APP to disable the extra security temporarily. Pair the new phone, re-enable the security.
I actually I see the larger use case for extra security not to prevent grand theft auto, it's more likely to be enabled when there are non-authorized drivers in the household, who may, on some occasion, tend to borrow the car unbeknownst to the authorized drivers. See, "Risky Business" ("Which one's Capt'n Nemo?") or the "Sneaky" i3 commercial for examples of this.
Has anyone considered how much manpower it will cost Tesla to support a PIN system in the car? They'll need 24/7 support for password resets (even if you have the easiest reset system available, have you ever tried to guide an older relative through a password reset?).
Has anyone considered how many high speed chases this will actually prevent? Is it really worth it or is everyone overreacting to one particularly bad incident?
Has anyone considered how many high speed chases this will actually prevent? Is it really worth it or is everyone overreacting to one particularly bad incident?
reddy
Active Member
That explains why the photo with the rear end embedded in the synagogue was on page 2 of the national Wall Street Journal on Saturday.
Hey, it's not every day you see half a car embedded halfway up a church entrance.
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Now that we have established how many PINs can dance on the head of an angel, has anyone back in LA heard more details about the actual event?
How was the car stolen ? From service center, or from the owner ? How is the thief doing, is he out of critical condition ? What kind of criminal charges beyond grand theft auto is he looking at ? How are the innocent victims in the other cars doing? Is the police report public?
Maybe we can put future PIN discussions in a PIN only thread, then I can know not to go there.
Ah, here is something from 6 hours ago...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...olen-model-s-split-burned-in-fiery-crash.html
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Larry93428
Member
Security failure at the service center(s) should not cause Tesla Motors to spend valuable time adding PIN or such to the car.
Tesla has far too many commitments now.
Recommend night watch men maybe but not back to the drafting table for engineers.
Tesla has far too many commitments now.
Recommend night watch men maybe but not back to the drafting table for engineers.
Rather than PINs, can something be done along the autonomous driver/autopilot approach...
If the car knows its own location then can it be updated/made aware of the current speed limit?
The car would also be aware that you have been driving say, 30/40/50mph (? - there could be a higher margin for faster roads - it's your licence after all) above said limit and after an appropriate delay if you continue to ignore warning signs / audible alerts it automatically slows the car down to the speed limit - a bit like the limiter when the battery is close to empty.
You can still continue to drive recklessly and crash into stuff if you like but only at lower speeds.
This limiter would last until you have stopped the car, got out and left it parked for X amount of time.
If you are going to drive SIGNIFICANTLY above the speed limit for your current route then you should expect to have to spend time out on the auto equivalent of the naughty step.
So, less of a "valet mode" more a "driving like a dou*** bag mode"
99.99% of owners would never engage this mode nor even know that it exists.
Racetracks/dragstrip locations would, of course be unlimited.
If the car knows its own location then can it be updated/made aware of the current speed limit?
The car would also be aware that you have been driving say, 30/40/50mph (? - there could be a higher margin for faster roads - it's your licence after all) above said limit and after an appropriate delay if you continue to ignore warning signs / audible alerts it automatically slows the car down to the speed limit - a bit like the limiter when the battery is close to empty.
You can still continue to drive recklessly and crash into stuff if you like but only at lower speeds.
This limiter would last until you have stopped the car, got out and left it parked for X amount of time.
If you are going to drive SIGNIFICANTLY above the speed limit for your current route then you should expect to have to spend time out on the auto equivalent of the naughty step.
So, less of a "valet mode" more a "driving like a dou*** bag mode"
99.99% of owners would never engage this mode nor even know that it exists.
Racetracks/dragstrip locations would, of course be unlimited.
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dsmith2189
Active Member
I think using a PIN like with the roadster to start the car is (forgive the pun) a non-starter.
I think that most people would agree that Valet mode is somewhere on Teslas feature list.
My thoughts are that the speed controls associated with valet mode can be used as part of the anti-theft features.
the driver would not need a pin to enable valet mode.
the driver would need the PIN to disable or change Valet mode in the car.
when setting valet mode an optional 1 mile (or other configurable area) geofence could be set up.
if the car drives out of the geo area the car would alert the driver that the car was about to shut down.
Valet mode could also turn on GPS tracking and not have it disabled until you exit valet mode (for those that don't normally use it)
You could also use a mobile app (user ID and password required) to enable and disable valet mode (using previously set speed and geofence).
If the car were reported stolen, then the owner could enable valet mode via app, the car would be speed limited and the geofence would then be set and the car would be shutdown as soon as the car move outside the geofence limit.
If a valet was given the car it would be speed limited and restricted to the current geofence area.
if a bad driver in the household (I didn't want to pick on teenagers) took the car then they would be speed limited (without a geofence)
So we end up with only a software change that may or may not be implemented by the car owners.
or they can get a Valet mode that has a configurable speed and a configurable geofence that triggers automatic shutdown.
no high speed chases or lead footed Valets and keeps the car close by for you or the police to recover.
you could give teenagers or relatives limited use of the car in the local area but forbid them to go out of town.
I think that most people would agree that Valet mode is somewhere on Teslas feature list.
My thoughts are that the speed controls associated with valet mode can be used as part of the anti-theft features.
the driver would not need a pin to enable valet mode.
the driver would need the PIN to disable or change Valet mode in the car.
when setting valet mode an optional 1 mile (or other configurable area) geofence could be set up.
if the car drives out of the geo area the car would alert the driver that the car was about to shut down.
Valet mode could also turn on GPS tracking and not have it disabled until you exit valet mode (for those that don't normally use it)
You could also use a mobile app (user ID and password required) to enable and disable valet mode (using previously set speed and geofence).
If the car were reported stolen, then the owner could enable valet mode via app, the car would be speed limited and the geofence would then be set and the car would be shutdown as soon as the car move outside the geofence limit.
If a valet was given the car it would be speed limited and restricted to the current geofence area.
if a bad driver in the household (I didn't want to pick on teenagers) took the car then they would be speed limited (without a geofence)
So we end up with only a software change that may or may not be implemented by the car owners.
or they can get a Valet mode that has a configurable speed and a configurable geofence that triggers automatic shutdown.
no high speed chases or lead footed Valets and keeps the car close by for you or the police to recover.
you could give teenagers or relatives limited use of the car in the local area but forbid them to go out of town.
Seven7
Member
Just get a life size cardboard NANCY GRACE and put it in the passenger seat that should keep EVERYONE away from you car
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I have left my car for months plugged in to a home distant from my present one, i think an opt-in PIN would be great, and/or vehicle not to be moved before X time .... I think locking down for leaving your car is a great idea. Not everyday, just as an option. I know when i leave my car home on weekends, the kids make for it, as its FREE-of-gas. Their trips to the airport, etc., would sure be more limited. Well, mom, your car is free, i knew you wouldn't mind ... Why, do you ask, i let them, well, hell, i'd do it to my husband also. He's worse than they are. The tesla is everyone's GO-CAR.
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lock up keys, its easy.
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lock up keys, its easy.
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