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Adios: Stepping back from TMC and likely Tesla in general

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by wk057, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    Greetings folks,

    I'm going to be taking a few steps back from TMC when it comes to basically anything about Tesla, the Model S, etc. I'm just going to keep up with my off-grid solar project thread, my BMS dev thread, and a few others like my autopilot release date contest thread. (The ones for projects I will be migrating updates from being posted here on TMC to a self-hosted site with updates eventually.) But I think I'm done with the drama that infests virtually every other thread these days. This seems to be getting the feel of many other auto enthusiast forums, and I steer clear of those. Long story short, I feel like the quality of the posts and information here has taken a drastic nose dive over the past year. Threads are filled with so much non-information, off-topic nonsense, repeated arguments, etc etc that I feel like it's honestly just not worth the effort anymore to contribute most of the time. Combine that with the endless attacks from folks who will fight to the death arguing against anything that might be even a little negative for Tesla (very poorly usually, but persistently), in and out of this forum, and I'm just done. I'm being harassed and ridiculed here, via email, and other contact methods for the views and opinions I've expressed on various topics and enough is enough. At some point it's just not worth the time or the effort. I like to contribute to things I'm passionate about (EVs, solar, etc have always been on my mind), but it seems pointless when people dismiss reality and substitute facts for personal attacks more often then not or in general just don't appreciate the contributions. Apologies to those who don't actually fit here and are appreciative and supportive.

    Some highlights (expletives censored by me):
    I got a few spoofed emails (from a legit contact's email address who definitely did not send the message) that read: "a mod deleted this post in ur thread, so ill tell you here: your a f*****g d****e bag. get over urself #firstworldproblems".
    Someone actually got a hold of my personal cell number (no idea how, it's not listed on anything associated with this account) and spammed me from random numbers (maybe the same person as above, no way to know) in the middle of the night with crap like, "Tesla r0x! f*** you!", forcing me to silence my phone to get some sleep and potentially miss contact from someone who legitimately needed to get a hold of me in an emergency or otherwise. Fortunately this spam attack stopped before I woke up.
    Slew of other emails, youtube comments, you name it based on posts I've made here (unique people).

    Overall, I've found myself wasting far too much time accomplishing nothing here lately.

    Additionally, I think I'm done supporting Tesla in general as a company. Their extremely poor handling of the numerous issues with the P85D that stem from their prior and continued misleading marketing (intentional or not before is up for debate, but certainly intentional now that it continues) has reached the breaking point with me. At this point they literally just refuse to even speak about the issues, let alone work towards any resolution at all. I see no reason to support such a company further. They've screwed me (and may others) on the P85D purchase, plain and simple, with their false advertising. While others here seem perfectly willing to accept that, I am not. I've made a final attempt at contact to work towards an informal resolution with them, and when that fails, like all other contact has over the past few months, it is pretty likely I will no longer be a Model S owner one way or another. Maybe I'll change my mind on that, but right now that's where I'm at.

    All of that said, a Tesla enthusiast forum seems like it is probably the wrong place for me to be. I do think I'm going to end up pursuing my own personal custom long range EV project soon, which should be fun.

    I don't think I'll be following this thread too closely, either, but figured I would point out my reasons for stepping back. Hopefully folks have found my contributions here to be helpful, and I thank those who have been helpful to me since I'd joined.

    Best,

    -wk
     
  2. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

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    Completely understand where you're coming from and look forward to following your efforts wherever once the hosting is resolved (no pun intended).
     
  3. notAmeenPerson

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    Mililani, HI
    Long-time lurker here. You referenced something in your post that I have taken note of in the past. In certain isolated situations there seems to be a strong undercurrent of defensiveness in support of Tesla Motors in the face of criticism (constructive or not). These responses seem to become more aggressive as time goes on. Some adults (for reference I'm 21) shockingly forget the concept of constructive criticism. The lack of empathy among some of the responses are appalling. In your case you simply want the product that was promised when the car was sold to you. If that's not reasonable I don't know what is. The "D" presentation gave me the impression that the mentioned feature set would be available in a couple of months (read: 2-3 months). So far it has been over nine months.

    The constant excuse making by those constantly apologizing for the company's missteps fail to realize there's a certain tier of customer service and quality (and clear communication) that needs to be achieved in all aspects of the business, not just a convenient few. The ambition and potential of the company shouldn't excuse it from basic things it should be getting right (managing customer expectations, clear promises, clear product feature offerings, software quality, clear timelines). I feel that my post reflects a few of the reasonable criticisms that should be aired and discussed without the headwinds of a strong defensive bias.

    And finally. No one should have to field the personal attacks and abuse that you described. It's just not rational to spam someone in a profane and upsetting manner (or to spam someone in general). Unfortunately there are bad unempathetic apples in the world.

    Take care.
     
  4. MrAustraliaTax

    Joined:
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    Melbourne
    I don't normally post in the non Australian threads, but I'd like to take the time to thank you for your many, many, many wonderful posts. I have learned immensely from your contributions here on TMC and it is sad to hear that you will be contributing less in the future.

    Tesla as a company has managed to create a Reality Distortion Field based around the Cult of Elon, and that is reflected in the way anything even remotely negative is slammed here at TMC. I hope that changes but I doubt that it will. For better or worse, Telsa = Apple instead of Tesla = Google/Android.
     
  5. wdolson

    wdolson Active Member

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    #5 wdolson, Sep 4, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
    I too have found your posts interesting and it's sad to see you stand back, but I can understand.

    There are many places in this world where people blindly believe an organization can't do any wrong and vigorously attack anyone who has anything bad to say. Nothing and nobody is perfect. Sometimes criticism might not be called for, sometimes it might be. But people are entitled to their opinions. However, there is never a reason to attack the person.
     
  6. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    So long and thanks for all the fish.
     
  7. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    This really is too bad. I'm especially sorry for the harassment you got as a result from your posting here, which has always been very interesting an packed with good information. Some people are just douchebags, I guess.

    Also sorry to hear of you opinions on Tesla, but they are justified even thought it might not describe everyones experience of the company.
     
  8. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    Really disappointed to see this post. Wk's input is one of the highlights of TMC. Also pretty shocking to read about the lengths some trolls will go to just to get a bit of attention. Good luck wk, will keep an eye out for your new site.
     
  9. Troy

    Troy Member

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    #9 Troy, Sep 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    It is a shame there is so much fanboyism in this forum and not enough constructive criticism and neutral moderation, that some of the best content creators don't feel like contributing anymore. Fanboyism is not helpful to Tesla. I think Elon would agree.

     
  10. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    I am sad to see you go, but I understand that because of those attacks.
     
  11. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    + 1
     
  12. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    Definitely sad to see you go.

    I don't think I saw the discussions you seem to primarily be referencing (of being attacked), but it is unfortunate how much that happens on the internet. As someone who has moderated tens or hundreds of thousands of comments/posts (elsewhere), it is a hard thing to keep out of a community -- it requires a lot of work from a lot of people.

    Clearly, if you were counting on shortly getting the autopilot features that were revealed at the D event and your purchase was partly because of those, you are right that you didn't get what you rightly deserved. It is unfortunate Tesla hasn't done a better job on that topic -- both getting the features rolled out and communicating the delays better... and, I would say, offering those early buyers something for not really delivering what it said it would deliver (in a timely fashion).

    All of that said, I do think there are a few things to note.

    One is that, on the whole, Tesla and electric cars have gotten lopsided coverage in the media that is much more negative than it should have been. When you look back at what Top Gear did, what happened with Broder, and how stupidly much of the media covers the company and the topic, I think that helps to explain why many who know better are quick to come to Tesla's and EVs' defense.

    Furthermore, there are legitimately paid trolls who's job is to go out and create doubt and negativity about things such as EVs, Tesla, and TSLA. With this being the case, some of us are hypersensitive to negative comments and persistent negativity and more quickly assume someone is engaging in such activity for nefarious reasons. I doubt many people here think you are such a person, but maybe a few do and they are counterproductively acting on that assumption. It's a tricky situation these days, but it's unfortunate when a thoughtful, sincere person with legitimate concerns receives that kind of negativity. And despite what many think, those reactions can have severe effects on the unfortunate recipient. Btw, this is a wonderful TED Talk that anyone who uses the internet (that's all of you) should watch.

    Another point that I think has to be recognized is that Tesla is very much a Silicon Valley company. It does things in a different way to much of the world and that is "normal" in that culture. I hate to stereotype, but I think it's safe to say that the style/culture jives much more with those in the younger half of the population, and more so the younger one gets. It's a different time, and depending on when we grew up, we have different expectations from companies and how they communicate.

    Tesla is also an extremely fast-growing company with a lot changing every day. While it may be a Fortune 100, it is still very much a startup (imho). To expect everything to run and be communicated as it would from a century-old company that is seeing incremental growth is unrealistic. I can't even imagine what kind of challenges in all respects (including communication) Tesla faces on a daily basis. But when I start to, my head spins a little as if I was riding in an Insane (or maybe even Ludicrous, but I haven't experienced that) record-shattering P85D. (I would say the head spins more while in the rollercoaster/passenger seat than in the spaceship/passenger seat, to be OC about my analogy there :) .)

    Overall, though, I think many of us here do agree that Tesla needs to mature a bit in order to present things (particularly, timelines) in a more realistic manner and to clean up some communication channels. Of course, there's not going to be 100% agreement there, but I think that's the majority view. As far as the ones who disagree on this matter (or any), some people are simply more reactive and abusive than others, and that's unfortunate... no matter in what setting. I much prefer an academic-style discussion and debate, and I'm happy to say that I think that is primarily what you find here on the TMC forum.

    Lastly, I think it's worth recognizing that Tesla is doing many things on a stellar level. To complain too "hard" about its weaknesses turns some people off and even makes then respond in contention because of how many ways Tesla is doing things much better than the incumbents. And it would be interesting to see an actual study on the matter, but without a doubt a large portion of the Tesla customer community has been very impressed by the customer service and communications from the company -- I'd venture to say it's the vast majority of the customer base. So, again, those experiences put people in a defensive and critical mood when someone makes an extreme case to the contrary to their experiences. Unfortunately, this is what seems to have happened with you a number of times.

    Anyhow, that's a long-winded perspective from someone long in the Tesla/EV/solar/cleantech communications business who has a background in sociology and a quite empathic sociologist's mind. Hopefully it is useful for putting this whole (unfortunate) story into broader perspective.
     
  13. JST

    JST Active Member

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    Sorry to see you go. You will be missed.

    But I would do the same thing.
     
  14. CatB

    CatB Member

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    I am horrified to see that people were attacking you personally.
    Please do post a link to your new website when you get it working and hope to meet you in person some day - you will be more than welcome at any Tesla Road Trip events - just please introduce yourself by your TMC handle so we'll recognize you.
    (p.s. my Dad grew up in Hickory)
     
  15. muleferg

    muleferg Member

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    I feel like the quality of the posts and information here has taken a drastic nose dive over the past year. Threads are filled with so much non-information, off-topic nonsense, repeated arguments, etc etc that I feel like it's honestly just not worth the effort anymore to contribute most of the time.

    My feelings as well. :cursing:
    Mule
     
  16. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    I am also interested in your new website.
     
  17. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    Noooo... don't let the idiot trolls win!

    I'll be sad to see you go. Your technical insights in to the working of the Tesla subsystems is one of the really valuable content on this forum.
     
  18. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    Thank you all for the kind words. Much appreciated, and restores a bit of faith here.

    I'm usually not one for letting the trolls win, but when multiple people start tracking down my contact info outside of the forum (not that I think this is extremely difficult, but definitely uncalled for) and harassing me I have to draw the line. It's not worth it at that point.

    Also, as mentioned, I'm not completely disappearing, but I'm definitely not going to be keeping up with and posting on everything I would have in the past. So when you see something like a thread about a Tesla battery module powered go-kart next year..... well.... :cool:
     
  19. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    Unfortunately, the TMC forum wasn't on my radar 1 year ago, but as a "newbie" I'd say it's still one of the best places (best?) on the internet for discussing Tesla matters. Unfortunate that some trolls and weak contributions are bring it down... if that is indeed the case.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think few people would stick around if that started happening to them. Really a shame.

    Enjoy your project and please keep me posted about it!
     
  20. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #20 FlasherZ, Sep 4, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
    That type of behavior by the trolls sickens me. In the earlier days of the commercial Internet, I used to run free UNIX shell servers for people I knew; that generated all sorts of fun phone calls at 2:30 in the morning -- everything from people wanting their free service fixed *NOW* to angry people doing similar things to me regarding the behavior of a user. I had to shut it down because of the nonsense.

    It may seem sometimes that I'm a staunch defender of Tesla without question; that's not really how I operate. Where I find differences of opinion, I tend to communicate in private and prefer not to air it out in public forums. Even with Tesla's crummy communications approach, a "let's create a movement thread" whose aim is to gather some press, versus driving change, is counterproductive - I'd handle it quite differently. I do admit Tesla's disappointments... I also think they get more right than wrong and are in a very tough field.

    EDIT: The recent spike in negativity is weighing on me a bit, too. There's anxiousness about the Model X's release (where Tesla's focus lies) and AutoPilot. I think once we see both of these, a lot of pent-up frustration will be released back through the steering wheels into the ground. I do believe that sometimes it slips our minds that we get to drive magical space cars that are, indeed, changing the world.

    I don't find your 691 HP and AP positions to be a major problem for me, because (1) I don't buy vehicles based on horsepower numbers or 0-60 times, and (2) I don't have a dog in the fight until I get the Model X - but that's okay, and I respect your right to take issue with it. I can understand how some might be upset if they counted on the numbers and they weren't there, and Tesla's going to pay for it by missing some car sales. They would lose my business if they compromised on something I really cared about.

    My best to you, Jason, and shame on the horrible behavior of the trolls.
     

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