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It sucks that you are leaving(most knowledgable people have been run off of here in the past few years), and you are spot on TMC taking a nose dive. TMC was probably the best automotive type forum up until the Model S release, and then slowly turned into a reality show forum.
Just wanted to say that I've always looked forward to updates to your threads, and have learned a lot from them.
Your experience with the trolls is unfortunate at best, and I understand your motivations to leave. I think there may be a happy middle ground where you can feel comfortable and it looks like that's what you've decided to do.
I know you have issue with Tesla as a company and you also have issue with the Tesla supporters/trolls, but I just hope you don't equate them as they are definitely two different entities with different agendas.
You have a legitimate positive fan base here on TMC, the other disrespectful twits don't deserve to disrupt your energy and enthusiasm.
Good luck with everything, and please post links to your new projects!
Your experience with the trolls is unfortunate at best, and I understand your motivations to leave. I think there may be a happy middle ground where you can feel comfortable and it looks like that's what you've decided to do.
I know you have issue with Tesla as a company and you also have issue with the Tesla supporters/trolls, but I just hope you don't equate them as they are definitely two different entities with different agendas.
You have a legitimate positive fan base here on TMC, the other disrespectful twits don't deserve to disrupt your energy and enthusiasm.
Good luck with everything, and please post links to your new projects!
....we love you :wink:
Your projects, videos and info have been awesome! Go kart?!please, yes!
being attacked..f'd up. Someone is probably jealous they aren't u
Your projects, videos and info have been awesome! Go kart?!please, yes!
being attacked..f'd up. Someone is probably jealous they aren't u
Absolutely no excuse for the off-board harassment. That's disgusting. No matter how much one might disagree, that is childish at best.
I do disagree with you on the overall opinion of Tesla. However, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Especially one who has sent over a small fortune to said company.
In my opinion, much like one of the previous replies, Tesla is a groundbreaking company....a true industry disruptor. This buys them a TON of leeway in my book. Have they dropped the ball on a few things, absolutely. But, who wouldn't? They have done what was thought impossible. They have changed the game, for good. Tesla has made some wrong steps (I have no dog in the P85D fight, but I was a front console wait list fiasco member). But they've made a thousand times more right steps. Fisker Karma anyone? Done, kaput. Horrible. Those poor owners have a horrible, buggy car with no support because their company made a series of awful decisions. They are a mere footnote. Tesla, is a milestone.
Constructive criticism is good. Blindfanboyism is not good. But in the end, I don't expect them to be able to nail everything like a 100 year old car company as far as communications, promises, etc. In fact, I think they've done better. I think they are doing the best they can, and what they've done thus far is mind boggling. We are still driving the most impressive cars in the world. And like I mentioned earlier, they've earned (speaking from me personally) a LOT of good will with me. I will continue to give them a LONG leash until I see evidence of either A) True malice or intentional misrepresentation or B) Complete incompetence and I lose faith of their direction as a company. From where I'm standing, they are a long ways from both.
Kudos to you for your contributions to this board. I sincerely hope Tesla finds some way to win you back. Best wishes.
I do disagree with you on the overall opinion of Tesla. However, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Especially one who has sent over a small fortune to said company.
In my opinion, much like one of the previous replies, Tesla is a groundbreaking company....a true industry disruptor. This buys them a TON of leeway in my book. Have they dropped the ball on a few things, absolutely. But, who wouldn't? They have done what was thought impossible. They have changed the game, for good. Tesla has made some wrong steps (I have no dog in the P85D fight, but I was a front console wait list fiasco member). But they've made a thousand times more right steps. Fisker Karma anyone? Done, kaput. Horrible. Those poor owners have a horrible, buggy car with no support because their company made a series of awful decisions. They are a mere footnote. Tesla, is a milestone.
Constructive criticism is good. Blindfanboyism is not good. But in the end, I don't expect them to be able to nail everything like a 100 year old car company as far as communications, promises, etc. In fact, I think they've done better. I think they are doing the best they can, and what they've done thus far is mind boggling. We are still driving the most impressive cars in the world. And like I mentioned earlier, they've earned (speaking from me personally) a LOT of good will with me. I will continue to give them a LONG leash until I see evidence of either A) True malice or intentional misrepresentation or B) Complete incompetence and I lose faith of their direction as a company. From where I'm standing, they are a long ways from both.
Kudos to you for your contributions to this board. I sincerely hope Tesla finds some way to win you back. Best wishes.
You have been one of the most useful contributors on this forum and if you really do decide to go it would be sad and a loss for the entire Tesla community.
I really hope you reconsider.
I hope I didn't offend you with the "Autopilot D.O.G" post but please note it was made in good humor and not as a sign of any disrespect.
It is despicable to hear of the harassment that you have had to endure. I feel you have been respectful of your opinions and even those who have issues with you I am sure at some level agree that you do have a point. I just hope you reconsider and continue to be a part of this community.
I really hope you reconsider.
I hope I didn't offend you with the "Autopilot D.O.G" post but please note it was made in good humor and not as a sign of any disrespect.
It is despicable to hear of the harassment that you have had to endure. I feel you have been respectful of your opinions and even those who have issues with you I am sure at some level agree that you do have a point. I just hope you reconsider and continue to be a part of this community.
thegruf
Active Member
And a thankyou from me too for your great contributions to this forum.
Like many find these days, you have to be hardened to the vile filth that some idiots throw at you from time to time.
You are not the first, nor the last to encounter this by pathetic individuals that hide behind the anonymity on the internet.
Just remember it is them, not you that, have the problem in their life that they behave like this.
That Tesla should go quiet regarding the 691hp and AP issues unfortunately is inevitable really.
Just the word "legal" appearing anywhere even if entirely unthreatening will instantly have the shutters drawn up and the philosophy of less said, the less likely to self-incriminate applied.
Sad that they chose not to liaise with you directly though.
Tesla are steadily evolving from exciting startup with a core loyal fanbase, to an established company.
They do seem to be making a number of stumbles on the way, but my call would be never to sacrifice the loyal fans as, if nothing else, in purely commercial terms this is the most economical form of marketing you can get.
If Elon really wants to be different then maintaining the respect and loyalty of enthusiastic early adopters imo is a crucial differentiator.
@wk - I wish you well
Like many find these days, you have to be hardened to the vile filth that some idiots throw at you from time to time.
You are not the first, nor the last to encounter this by pathetic individuals that hide behind the anonymity on the internet.
Just remember it is them, not you that, have the problem in their life that they behave like this.
That Tesla should go quiet regarding the 691hp and AP issues unfortunately is inevitable really.
Just the word "legal" appearing anywhere even if entirely unthreatening will instantly have the shutters drawn up and the philosophy of less said, the less likely to self-incriminate applied.
Sad that they chose not to liaise with you directly though.
Tesla are steadily evolving from exciting startup with a core loyal fanbase, to an established company.
They do seem to be making a number of stumbles on the way, but my call would be never to sacrifice the loyal fans as, if nothing else, in purely commercial terms this is the most economical form of marketing you can get.
If Elon really wants to be different then maintaining the respect and loyalty of enthusiastic early adopters imo is a crucial differentiator.
@wk - I wish you well
Firstly, I wanted to recognize the tremendous contributions you have made to the forum. I'm very happy that you will continue to update with your BMS and off-grid projects. I've been informed and entertained a great deal by them in the past and would be very sorry to see you stop posting them. I don't always agree with your other conclusions, but I respect that your position is always well thought out and rationally presented and even where I disagree with some of your conclusions I still find that there is always a great deal I do agree with. I can appreciate that being a minority voice is sometimes unpleasant, especially in a community as passionate as this one and I will be very sorry to see you go.
Secondly, I wanted to express my shock and horror at the actions of those who would harass you. That sort of behavior is completely unacceptable and more than likely criminal. I'm profoundly disturbed to learn that there are those here who would stoop to such actions and wanted to add my voice to those expressing that such behavior is childish and shameful. It is my hope that this stuff is the behavior of a single individual with apparent mental heath issues and not reflective of anyone else here.
I have been troubled by the apparent escalation of the divide between you and those who would more or less unconditionally support Tesla in recent weeks. Your central points that Tesla has failed to deliver on their promise to provide autopilot in a timely fashion, that the P85D does not produce the advertised horsepower and that Tesla has failed completely to offer any explanation or remediation are at this point beyond reasonable dispute. It has become apparent lately that your unhappiness has sometimes produced combustible results when combined with others' enthusiasm. It makes me unhappy to read those threads and I understand your inclination to withdraw from them, even as I wish it weren't so.
I wish people could be a bit more charitable towards each other. Unlike you, I still find the things I love about the car to clearly overcome the things that I'm disappointed by, but I can do so without feeling like that makes you wrong or somehow a bad guy. You would not be the first critical poster to be driven away or turned off by Tesla in the few months I've been here and I think we'd be a better and stronger community if we were more tolerant of critical voices. Best of luck to you in the future, here or elsewhere.
Secondly, I wanted to express my shock and horror at the actions of those who would harass you. That sort of behavior is completely unacceptable and more than likely criminal. I'm profoundly disturbed to learn that there are those here who would stoop to such actions and wanted to add my voice to those expressing that such behavior is childish and shameful. It is my hope that this stuff is the behavior of a single individual with apparent mental heath issues and not reflective of anyone else here.
I have been troubled by the apparent escalation of the divide between you and those who would more or less unconditionally support Tesla in recent weeks. Your central points that Tesla has failed to deliver on their promise to provide autopilot in a timely fashion, that the P85D does not produce the advertised horsepower and that Tesla has failed completely to offer any explanation or remediation are at this point beyond reasonable dispute. It has become apparent lately that your unhappiness has sometimes produced combustible results when combined with others' enthusiasm. It makes me unhappy to read those threads and I understand your inclination to withdraw from them, even as I wish it weren't so.
I wish people could be a bit more charitable towards each other. Unlike you, I still find the things I love about the car to clearly overcome the things that I'm disappointed by, but I can do so without feeling like that makes you wrong or somehow a bad guy. You would not be the first critical poster to be driven away or turned off by Tesla in the few months I've been here and I think we'd be a better and stronger community if we were more tolerant of critical voices. Best of luck to you in the future, here or elsewhere.
Hi, @wk057, thank you for giving us very informative posts. I personally enjoyed almost all of your threads and your posts. I and other forum members miss you, but enjoy your life and come back when you change your mind
BoerumHill
not great not terrible
The sociopathic behavior toward the OP (texts/emails) is appalling.
wk057 - I don't think we've interacted directly but I just wanted to thank you for your contributions to TMC. Wish you nothing but success in all your future endeavors, happiness and peace of mind to you and your bride.
wk057 - I don't think we've interacted directly but I just wanted to thank you for your contributions to TMC. Wish you nothing but success in all your future endeavors, happiness and peace of mind to you and your bride.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I completely understand mostly leaving. That kind of harassment is completely unacceptable, and I wouldn't want to deal with it either.
Best wishes with your current and future projects!
With Steve Jobs gone, it's no surprise that some people flocked to find a new savior of Silicon Valley.
We at TMC do need people around who will keep things real. The cult/fanboy echo chamber is not good for the company, and can be dangerous for investors in terms of financial risk.
Sincerely sorry to see you go, but based on the disgusting behavior of some folks, I completely agree - its just a car and no one needs that kind of sh!t in their life. Beyond the personal stuff, hopefully someone at Tesla sees this as a wake-up call to fix the incoherent communications. When you start losing advocates, it should serve as a wake-up call to someone.
Noooo!
It's probably just some idiots who can get your private information because you've separated yourself with your work.
But in case it's a fossil fuel conspiracy to get you off public forums and then quietly come round and ensure a spectacular failure of your off-grid home, thus ensuring that people think they'll continue to need fossil fuels, I think you should definitely continue to "blog" here.
It's probably just some idiots who can get your private information because you've separated yourself with your work.
But in case it's a fossil fuel conspiracy to get you off public forums and then quietly come round and ensure a spectacular failure of your off-grid home, thus ensuring that people think they'll continue to need fossil fuels, I think you should definitely continue to "blog" here.
Adm
Active Member
I am sad to read about the horrible trolling (dare I say stalking). I can't blame you for calling it quits here. Human behavior at its worst.
I wish you all the best in whatever life throws at you in the future. I hope there will continue to be a place to follow your fascinating home storage adventure.
I wish you all the best in whatever life throws at you in the future. I hope there will continue to be a place to follow your fascinating home storage adventure.
Electric700
Active Member
Wk057, I appreciate what you have done with your detailed analyses and direct facts. To put it simply, I think we and Tesla need you. If there's a mistake, Tesla absolutely should correct the advertising and offer an incentive for those affected. The middle of the night messages to you should stop, but don't let those discourage you.
Also, remember that you are supporting the EV cause and that you have a 100% electric car that can go with ease across the USA!! 10 years ago, could you have imagined that you'd be where you are today?
Also, remember that you are supporting the EV cause and that you have a 100% electric car that can go with ease across the USA!! 10 years ago, could you have imagined that you'd be where you are today?
ATC@LWSK
Member
wk057, just want to say thank you for your contribution to these forums. TMC is losing a truly valuable member. And good luck in your future endeavors!!
Zach, great post and very well put.
Definitely sad to see you go.
I don't think I saw the discussions you seem to primarily be referencing (of being attacked), but it is unfortunate how much that happens on the internet. As someone who has moderated tens or hundreds of thousands of comments/posts (elsewhere), it is a hard thing to keep out of a community -- it requires a lot of work from a lot of people.
Clearly, if you were counting on shortly getting the autopilot features that were revealed at the D event and your purchase was partly because of those, you are right that you didn't get what you rightly deserved. It is unfortunate Tesla hasn't done a better job on that topic -- both getting the features rolled out and communicating the delays better... and, I would say, offering those early buyers something for not really delivering what it said it would deliver (in a timely fashion).
All of that said, I do think there are a few things to note.
One is that, on the whole, Tesla and electric cars have gotten lopsided coverage in the media that is much more negative than it should have been. When you look back at what Top Gear did, what happened with Broder, and how stupidly much of the media covers the company and the topic, I think that helps to explain why many who know better are quick to come to Tesla's and EVs' defense.
Furthermore, there are legitimately paid trolls who's job is to go out and create doubt and negativity about things such as EVs, Tesla, and TSLA. With this being the case, some of us are hypersensitive to negative comments and persistent negativity and more quickly assume someone is engaging in such activity for nefarious reasons. I doubt many people here think you are such a person, but maybe a few do and they are counterproductively acting on that assumption. It's a tricky situation these days, but it's unfortunate when a thoughtful, sincere person with legitimate concerns receives that kind of negativity. And despite what many think, those reactions can have severe effects on the unfortunate recipient. Btw, this is a wonderful TED Talk that anyone who uses the internet (that's all of you) should watch.
Another point that I think has to be recognized is that Tesla is very much a Silicon Valley company. It does things in a different way to much of the world and that is "normal" in that culture. I hate to stereotype, but I think it's safe to say that the style/culture jives much more with those in the younger half of the population, and more so the younger one gets. It's a different time, and depending on when we grew up, we have different expectations from companies and how they communicate.
Tesla is also an extremely fast-growing company with a lot changing every day. While it may be a Fortune 100, it is still very much a startup (imho). To expect everything to run and be communicated as it would from a century-old company that is seeing incremental growth is unrealistic. I can't even imagine what kind of challenges in all respects (including communication) Tesla faces on a daily basis. But when I start to, my head spins a little as if I was riding in an Insane (or maybe even Ludicrous, but I haven't experienced that) record-shattering P85D. (I would say the head spins more while in the rollercoaster/passenger seat than in the spaceship/passenger seat, to be OC about my analogy there
Overall, though, I think many of us here do agree that Tesla needs to mature a bit in order to present things (particularly, timelines) in a more realistic manner and to clean up some communication channels. Of course, there's not going to be 100% agreement there, but I think that's the majority view. As far as the ones who disagree on this matter (or any), some people are simply more reactive and abusive than others, and that's unfortunate... no matter in what setting. I much prefer an academic-style discussion and debate, and I'm happy to say that I think that is primarily what you find here on the TMC forum.
Lastly, I think it's worth recognizing that Tesla is doing many things on a stellar level. To complain too "hard" about its weaknesses turns some people off and even makes then respond in contention because of how many ways Tesla is doing things much better than the incumbents. And it would be interesting to see an actual study on the matter, but without a doubt a large portion of the Tesla customer community has been very impressed by the customer service and communications from the company -- I'd venture to say it's the vast majority of the customer base. So, again, those experiences put people in a defensive and critical mood when someone makes an extreme case to the contrary to their experiences. Unfortunately, this is what seems to have happened with you a number of times.
Anyhow, that's a long-winded perspective from someone long in the Tesla/EV/solar/cleantech communications business who has a background in sociology and a quite empathic sociologist's mind. Hopefully it is useful for putting this whole (unfortunate) story into broader perspective.
Zach, great post and very well put.
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