Advertised vs Practical Range

[Aellinsar]

This is an interesting thread to me. We will sometimes take a day trip to my mother-in-law's house, which is 190 miles round trip door-to-door. So, for current Tesla owners, would you attempt this on a short range model 3? It's a pretty straight-shot drive of 55-70 mph freeways, mostly 60mph.

It sounds based on anicolao's post that we'd probably want to supplement with some 120V charging while at their house.

 

[scaesare]

This is an interesting thread to me. We will sometimes take a day trip to my mother-in-law's house, which is 190 miles round trip door-to-door. So, for current Tesla owners, would you attempt this on a short range model 3? It's a pretty straight-shot drive of 55-70 mph freeways, mostly 60mph.

It sounds based on anicolao's post that we'd probably want to supplement with some 120V charging while at their house.

In decent weather I expect that's no problem at all.

 

[Saghost]

This is an interesting thread to me. We will sometimes take a day trip to my mother-in-law's house, which is 190 miles round trip door-to-door. So, for current Tesla owners, would you attempt this on a short range model 3? It's a pretty straight-shot drive of 55-70 mph freeways, mostly 60mph.

It sounds based on anicolao's post that we'd probably want to supplement with some 120V charging while at their house.

In good weather it'll be doable if you watch your speed. A stop at a Supercharger near the route would make me much more comfortable.

 

[Aellinsar]

In good weather it'll be doable if you watch your speed. A stop at a Supercharger near the route would make me much more comfortable.

Thanks for the feedback. There is only 1 supercharger in my area, but it's only 3 miles out of the way along this trip ~20 miles from my house. I coudl definitely stop if I were feeling nervous about the last 20 miles on the way back.

 

[David99]

I don't confuse personally. Re: 0 - besides the risk of being stuck, there's also manual: "Discharging the Battery to 0% may permanently damage the Battery. "

You can't run the Tesla battery down to 0. It will shut down before.

 

[Moderatefan]

You can't run the Tesla battery down to 0. It will shut down before.

Oh yes, you can. Watch this, quite entertaining: Tesla Model 3 Road Trip

 

[David99]

Oh yes, you can. Watch this, quite entertaining: Tesla Model 3 Road Trip

Zero miles left does not mean 0% in the battery. When the car shows 0 there is about 5% left.

 

[scaesare]

This has been discussed here multiple times.

The answer to "How much energy is left when the battery display is at 0%?" is "It depends."

There is no secret reserve you can drive on. However, remaining battery power estimation is..er... an estimation. It depends on factors like temperature, load at the time of measurement, time at rest at the current state, etc...

Thus, you might be able to drive past 0. Or the car might shut down at zero. Or the car could shut down before 0 (although the BMS tries hard to not let that happen, that has been reported here). And the same car could behave differently under different circumstances.

So, don't listen to anybody who suggests that you have guaranteed reserve past 0 you can drive on. While there is a buffer of energy maintained in the battery, that's to avoid damaging the pack due to over discharge. The car will happily shut down and strand you in order to preserve the pack.

So the safe bet is: Try not to get down to zero.

 

[insaneoctane]

Assuming that the weather is good, and you limit your charging to 90%, will your Tesla allow full regen immediately? Will it be willing to regen past 90%? I guess I'm asking if the 90% charge limit only applies to wall / Super charger and not regen charging?

 

[scaesare]

Assuming that the weather is good, and you limit your charging to 90%, will your Tesla allow full regen immediately? Will it be willing to regen past 90%? I guess I'm asking if the 90% charge limit only applies to wall / Super charger and not regen charging?

In order:

Yes.

It will start limiting the closer you get to 100%

Yes (if I understand you correctly), although theoretically if you could regen for long enough to increase your charge substantially above 90%, you'd start getting limited also.

 

[Moderatefan]

Assuming that the weather is good, and you limit your charging to 90%, will your Tesla allow full regen immediately? Will it be willing to regen past 90%? I guess I'm asking if the 90% charge limit only applies to wall / Super charger and not regen charging?

I think one workaround if you live at the top of the mountain is to charge to 80%, so by the time you're down you have 90.

 

[insaneoctane]

I think one workaround if you live at the top of the mountain is to charge to 80%, so by the time you're down you have 90.

Yes, but I needed to educated that the charging limit in the GUI does NOT apply to charging due to regenerative braking...

 

[anicolao]

It sounds based on anicolao's post that we'd probably want to supplement with some 120V charging while at their house.

On a short range Model 3, rated at 220mi, for a round trip of 190 miles, I'd do it only in the finest weather. I'm not sure where in Ohio you are, but for today's weather in Columbus (1C ~= 34F) driving an average of 60mph with peaks of 80mph, I'd plan on at least 40% more range than you need for the trip turning 190mi * 1.4 = 266mi. That means you need about 50 miles of charging in winter weather, and that'll be very painful on 120V charge (> 10 hours). Long range Model 3, rated at 310, would make this a relaxing journey except in cold weather.

Now it has to be said much depends on your driving habits. You don't have to drive 80mph. You could be careful to ensure charging at home finishes just before you have to leave so the battery is warm and ready to go. You could see about installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet at the destination house so that it isn't a painful multi-hour wait to charge for the return trip. Or you could buy LR. Or you could stop at the supercharger in both directions. Start from your home at 80% charge, charge to full at the supercharger (20 miles into the trip) which will take about 15 minutes. Drive the rest of the way, then back to the supercharger (round trip 150 mi * 1.4 = 210 miles of range, a bit of a nail biter in cold weather). Stop at the supercharger for 30 minutes, plenty of charge to get home. Note the supercharger is much slower to charge if you arrive near empty.

 

[jjh1234]

I would never even consider the SR model unless you use it exclusively as a local vehicle. There are so many factors that reduce the battery range to consider (speed, temperature, degradation, 90% charging). Plus, I believe the LR would be much more desirable on the used market when you go to sell. One of the three biggest reasons for selling my MS 75D was range.

 

[ForeverFree]

I would never even consider the SR model unless you use it exclusively as a local vehicle. There are so many factors that reduce the battery range to consider (speed, temperature, degradation, 90% charging). Plus, I believe the LR would be much more desirable on the used market when you go to sell. One of the three biggest reasons for selling my MS 75D was range.

+1000


Our original Model S was going to be a 60. My wife pushed me to go with the 85 ... and I have since seriously considered upgrading to a 100.

Thus, when she pushed to have her new Model 3 be the LR version, I didn’t push back too strongly. And, now that we’ve taken it for its first road trip, I’m glad that we followed her instinct.

And, that is down here in Southern California, where we only encounter cold and snow in the mountains.

In your case, combine cold with a couple inches of snow on the roadway (plays havoc with rolling resistance) and some headwind, and you will rue the day that you bought the SR.

The other factor to keep in mind is Supercharging speed. Not only does the LR version have a higher maximum Supercharging speed, it will stay near that maximum for more rated miles before reaching the charge percentage that triggers a charge rate taper.

We saw all of these factors on our recent trip. Just moving from an S85D (265 rated, after degradation) to a 3LR (310) caused a surprisingly big improvement in our ski trip to Mammoth (300 miles and 7000-foot elevation gain).

Previously, we had to stop for 15 minutes in Mojave to assure ourselves of making the Lone Pine Supercharger and then almost 45 minutes in Lone Pine (icy walk to McDonalds and back) to be sure of conquering the uphill to Mammoth safely.

With the LR, we skipped Mojave and arrived in Lone Pine with a comfortable 75-mile cushion. We grabbed a quick brown-bagged sandwich in Lone Pine (20 minutes) and still made it to Mammoth with a 75-mile cushion.

Previously, the return trip, although downhill, required a quick dinner Supercharge stop in Mojave (20 minutes).

This time, our LR afforded us luxurious non-stop service ... door-to-door in 4:45 (same time as our old ICE), with only a couple of quick biological stops.

BUY THE LR. YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.

If anything, give serious thought to going AWD, as well. It makes a real difference in winter. Had not last weekend been unseasonably warm and dry up in Mammoth, we would have taken my S85D, despite it’s less convenient range. Buy a car that will meet your needs for years to come. Cheaper in the long range, and less stress, to boot!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I would never even consider the SR model unless you use it exclusively as a local vehicle. There are so many factors that reduce the battery range to consider (speed, temperature, degradation, 90% charging). Plus, I believe the LR would be much more desirable on the used market when you go to sell. One of the three biggest reasons for selling my MS 75D was range.

Yes, range is variable, but fundamentally it'll come down to:
(1) winter conditions
(2) Supercharger density
(3) the longer trips you take
(4) charging time tolerance
(5) number of vehicles

For us, based on reports SR winter range could drop as low as 100 miles and in those cases Supercharging would be slow.
But outside of the winter extremes, and in spring to fall range will be much better and charging will be faster both in power and mph.
Given that we'd also have our Volt, are unlikely to do longer distances in winter extremes and won't do a bunch of road tripping each year, the LR isn't worth the $9k + tax + insurance + inefficiency to me.

What's essential to me is commute distance v winter range. Even 100 miles is over two commutes (and more for my wife), which makes it outage tolerant.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

BUY THE LR. YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT

Agree 100%
That’s why we bought x100d
And now m3 LR

 

[Aellinsar]

I would never even consider the SR model unless you use it exclusively as a local vehicle. There are so many factors that reduce the battery range to consider (speed, temperature, degradation, 90% charging). Plus, I believe the LR would be much more desirable on the used market when you go to sell. One of the three biggest reasons for selling my MS 75D was range.

Based on the replies in this thread, that seems to be the logical route forward. If I don't buy the LR, I'd probably use our ICE 2nd vehicle for trips like this. with taxes/insurance, the price of the additional range would be over $10,000. That's tough to justify for 3-4 trips per year. If I owned the car for 8 years, that's $3-400 per trip.

 

[kbM3]

Charging to 100% and letting car sit for many many hours has not show to cause degradation in our 2013 S85. We routinely, almost every weekend charge to 100% and rarely do we drive immediately after 100% charge, most of the time it's 5 or 10 hours before we leave.

We charge daily to 90% and always charge when possible if the car is under 30%.

We have 97+% original range after 5 years and 110,000 km.

I've seen no evidence in our original "A" pack Model S that there is any concern on 100% charging the night before a trip. We do not over think our charging. If we are taking a 200 km + trip, we always charge to 100% the night before.

That said, agree that leaving car near 0% is asking for trouble. I have never taken our S below 7%.

The combination of the battery staying at 100% plus high temperature is what degrades the battery.

 

[Saghost]

Based on the replies in this thread, that seems to be the logical route forward. If I don't buy the LR, I'd probably use our ICE 2nd vehicle for trips like this. with taxes/insurance, the price of the additional range would be over $10,000. That's tough to justify for 3-4 trips per year. If I owned the car for 8 years, that's $3-400 per trip.

That assumes the battery upgrade has no value at the end of your ownership - and gives no credit for not carrying the old ICE car insurance, registration, and repairs.