Advice for landlord situation in California

[ralph142]

You see that you’re obligated to pay all costs upfront, and provide financial breakdowns for use and removal, in addition to any process the landlord establishes? Maybe get some estimates before rolling too far.

 

[importon]

I don’t see any photo...

 

[importon]

Seems to me like you are loosing focus.

Lots of users have posted good advice about seeing a lawyer, moving, trying to get in touch with the management, etc, but you aren't responding to those posts.

Do you have some thoughts, why you don't want to move, or why you have not already seen a lawyer?

I don't see it as smart to start spending money before I have a sense of how difficult the owners are going to make things. The focus is on step one still which IS getting in touch with management. that's who I've been talking to for over 2 months.

"why you don't want to move"? Do I even need to answer this? Why don't you want to move? This post was prefaced with a request for commenters to refrain from "why would you if you rent!" comments. So please don't "loose focus"

 

[Spacep0d]

OP, you're a fellow Californian. As you well know by your emails and posts, California is a 'right to charge' state. The landlord cannot just say 'no'. It's good that you're quoting the law. It may be worth having the law quoted to the owner via legal letterhead, or retain a lawyer for an hour to do this (unless you have a lawyer friend who can help out).

I've had a similar issue where I had to appeal to my HOA to upgrade the pathetic 60a electrical panel, or at least run new electric cable to my garage for a dedicated charger. I quoted the same laws in my appeal in a very friendly but legally-sourced query. They agreed, but I have to hire a certified electrician, have that electrician draw up architectural plans (for trenching new line, etc.) and then there has to be a job description or specification. All of this has to be approved by the board (which they will no-doubt approve) and I will have my dedicated line. I'm in a townhome, but you have the same legal coverage in any dwelling you're in.

I was the first in my complex to broach this, but I surely will not be the last. You won't be either. If you can band together with other EV owners, all the better.

CA is very EV friendly, and is getting more so every year. EVs are growing in popularity. Tesla is now worth more than Wal-Mart. This is the way.

 

[acarney]

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Pay a licensed electrician a $100 or whatever and get an official quote written up. Hopefully it’s still straight forward but it could still balloon to thousands somehow, we’ve seen it all before on this forum. I would also take their advice for placement (if they have any) to make it the least likely for trip hazard or getting damaged if a car hit it, etc. Those are all things the owners could come back and complain about.

 

[Watts_Up]

Just by curiosity, what is the main circuit beaker Amp value?

I just wonder, when branching out your EV charger
can you use a derivation box above your meter or do have to use a disconnect box

In my case, I have a 60 A circuit beaker so using a 30 A (24 A nominal) NEMA plug, I just had a derivation box installed.

 

[user212_nr]

OP, you're a fellow Californian. As you well know by your emails and posts, California is a 'right to charge' state. The landlord cannot just say 'no'. It's good that you're quoting the law. It may be worth having the law quoted to the owner via legal letterhead, or retain a lawyer for an hour to do this (unless you have a lawyer friend who can help out).

I've had a similar issue where I had to appeal to my HOA to upgrade the pathetic 60a electrical panel, or at least run new electric cable to my garage for a dedicated charger. I quoted the same laws in my appeal in a very friendly but legally-sourced query.

Exactly.

Why don't you make him (help him make) such a document since you are the only one we know who has one.

Then he can send it to them via certified mail at the address on his lease, and who knows if it is valid in court, but at least it will cost them $ to consult their attorney on the question.

 

[ralph142]

Op disagree with my previous post all you want, but I quote from yor ca code

4) Obligation of the lessee to pay the lessor all costs associated with the lessor’s installation of the charging station and its infrastructure prior to any modification or improvement being made to the leased property. The costs associated with modifications and improvements shall include, but are not limited to, the cost of permits, supervision, construction, and, solely if required by the contractor, consistent with its past performance of work for the lessor, performance bonds.

 

[phil4791eng]

The installation looks more complicated than normal since your breaker box is probably in your apartment. Coming right off the meter will cost more and you may have to turn off the power to the complex. I can’t tell from the picture.

 

[Watts_Up]

Op disagree with my previous post all you want, but I quote from yor ca code

4) Obligation of the lessee to pay the lessor all costs associated with the lessor’s installation of the charging station and its infrastructure prior to any modification or improvement being made to the leased property. The costs associated with modifications and improvements shall include, but are not limited to, the cost of permits, supervision, construction, and, solely if required by the contractor, consistent with its past performance of work for the lessor, performance bonds.

To be fair, if there is any plus-value for the unit having an EV plug, then the lessee should get some of his expenses covered?

 

[Watts_Up]

The installation looks more complicated than normal since your breaker box is probably in your apartment.
Coming right off the meter will cost more and you may have to turn off the power to the complex.
I can’t tell from the picture.

I'm in a similar situation and I have a connection box installed just above the meter,
so the EV charger is connected just after the meter and the main panel circuit beaker,
and not coming from the panel installed inside the unit,
but the electrician might use a disconnect box instead of a connection box,

 

[ChrisMPK]

Can't quite tell from the photos but it looks like your panel feed will need to be intercepted and a new main panel installed. Probably going to be a $3-4,000 job and 1-2 days. I wouldn't get your hopes up about it being less. That's after you get past the landlord issue which also sounds like it is going to take some kind of attorney's fee to get done.

Why not get an electrician out for an estimate? You don't need to give him the entire back story. Just get a price. You should be able to get that much for free.

 

[ralph142]

To be fair, if there is any plus-value for the unit having an EV plug, then the lessee should get some of his expenses covered?

possibly, but needs to be negotiated with the landlord of course. You’ll notice that is not part of the ca code tho.

 

[Spacep0d]

Exactly.

Why don't you make him (help him make) such a document since you are the only one we know who has one.

Then he can send it to them via certified mail at the address on his lease, and who knows if it is valid in court, but at least it will cost them $ to consult their attorney on the question.

I didn't actually need to invoke the gravitas of legal letterhead, but I would've if I needed to.

 

[DonaldBecker]

I would put more of the blame/responsibility on the management company.

Owners hire management companies to deal with all of a details of a rental property. That includes knowing and observing the law. When the law requires additional smoke detectors, the expectation is that the management company will comply with the law and install them (at the owner's expense, of course). In some cases the management company might end up informing (arguing with) the owner about the law, but that shouldn't involve the renter.

 

[MD JD]

Did you read the law that I put a link to?

The law reads, among other things,
(b) This section does not apply to residential rental properties where:
...
(3) There are fewer than five parking spaces.
...
(4) The dwelling is subject to a residential rent control ordinance. This paragraph shall not apply to a lease executed, extended, or renewed on and after January 1, 2019.

These are the hurdles you need to overcome before rest of my post is to be considered.


Also, the definition:
(c) For purposes of this section, “electric vehicle charging station” or “charging station” means any level of electric vehicle supply equipment station that is designed and built in compliance with Article 625 of the California Electrical Code, as it reads on the effective date of this section, and delivers electricity from a source outside an electric vehicle into a plug-in electric vehicle.

So a 110v outlet suffices this law. 220v outlet is not mandated by this particular law.

Also:

(4) Obligation of the lessee to pay the lessor all costs associated with the lessor’s installation of the charging station and its infrastructure prior to any modification or improvement being made to the leased property. The costs associated with modifications and improvements shall include, but are not limited to, the cost of permits, supervision, construction, and, solely if required by the contractor, consistent with its past performance of work for the lessor, performance bonds.

Are you willing to pay couple thousand $, if not more, for this installation, for a rental place?

 

[WASD]

Here is a good article regarding this, maybe send this to the Landlord: How California Tenants Are Charging Electric Vehicles at Home | Astanehe Law.

I went through this with the HOA of the complex where I own my condo.
I found the electrician that I wanted to use, got a quote with pictures, and promised to obtain any necessary permits (My electrician obtained it for me through Culver City).

Before I bought the place in 2018 they initially said "it shouldn't be a problem". After that It was somewhat of a battle to get them onboard with it. They changed property managers 2 times, so each time I had to start over. Eventually they told me to just go ahead but provide all the proper paperwork (permit, electrician insurance/license etc.) for their files.

It cost around $2,500 total, install + materials, charepoint level 2, and permit.

I recommend using the wall behind your parking space though, what if someone backs into the pole and damages the outlet?

 

[WASD]

Can't quite tell from the photos but it looks like your panel feed will need to be intercepted and a new main panel installed. Probably going to be a $3-4,000 job and 1-2 days. I wouldn't get your hopes up about it being less. That's after you get past the landlord issue which also sounds like it is going to take some kind of attorney's fee to get done.

Why not get an electrician out for an estimate? You don't need to give him the entire back story. Just get a price. You should be able to get that much for free.

I had this done with a very similar layout, the electrician charged me $1,500. They ran a line from my main breaker to a breakout box with a 50a breaker, and then ran that to my chargepoint level 2 charger installed on the wall. They also ran all the cabling behind the wall (had a crawlspace). It should not cost anywhere near $3k-$4k and should only take a half day.

 

[HappyHappy]

First off, I am a Landlord and I'd gladly let you pay for this work to be done.

However, as the tenant, I wouldn't make the effort to fight about it if they refused.

Why? Without knowing your lease terms, if I was the Landlord you have, I'd hammer you on any renewal and hold you to every unreasonable term in the lease.

So if you have the vindictive type of landlord, you may be opening yourself up to a long term headache.

I'm going to quote Steve's post, because regardless of what the law is, the reality is exactly what Steve said. I say that as a lawyer, a commercial landlord, and a residential landlord. Any tenant that shoves the law in my face becomes a problem tenant. And problem tenants do not get renewed. There is absolutely nothing in the lease or law that says I have to renew your lease. Do you really want to spend several thousand dollars installing a charger for the next tenant?

 

[acarney]

I'm going to quote Steve's post, because regardless of what the law is, the reality is exactly what Steve said. I say that as a lawyer, a commercial landlord, and a residential landlord. Any tenant that shoves the law in my face becomes a problem tenant. And problem tenants do not get renewed. There is absolutely nothing in the lease or law that says I have to renew your lease. Do you really want to spend several thousand dollars installing a charger for the next tenant?

Apparently the law says you must put up the money too for having it removed if you move!