Advice needed for 3 phase charging

[Tevvy]

Hi all. My current charging at home solution is very primative. My electrician friend connected me a £10 commando socket to my fuse board 3 years ago, and I simply charge with the charger which came with my Model S in 2017 (is it called a UMC?). It has a removable 3 pin plug and came with a Commando connector to connect. This gives me a steady 22 miles per hour charging, at 32amps/240v. It cost me nothing other than a beer for him and has served me well for 3 years.

However, I'm moving. And the new house has 3 phase supply (so he tells me).

My question is, does anyone know if the UMC can handle 3 phase? I don't really understand 3 phase, but he tells me, it could charge my car at 3 times the speed of the single phase I currently have, but I might need a new charger (which I assume is around £300?). He's not an expert on EV charging, he's a commercial electrician.

Has anyone connected their UMC to 3 Phase? Thanks for any advice.

 

[Russinating]

It's really unusual to have a 3 phase supply in a residential property, you're lucky! What kind of property is it?

 

[Tevvy]

A victorian house which was put into flats years ago, and turned back. I assume the supply was put in when it was flats.

 

[Russinating]

A victorian house which was put into flats years ago, and turned back. I assume the supply was put in when it was flats.

I see, maybe. And he's 100% sure it's 3 phase?

This is probably the cheapest 3 phase charger you'll find: WallPod : EV charging unit | Type 2 Socket | 3 Phase | 16/32 Amp(11/22kW) | 3 Pole Isolator | IP65 |. As you can see the description is very much re: commercial and all the other 3 phase ones they sell are pedestals.

Do you need a 22kw charger as opposed to just a 7kw?

 

[Tevvy]

Thanks, yes he's 100% it's 3 phase.

I'm not sure if 22kw is needed, but why not if I can. But if he's going to just install another £10 commando socket, I might as well get a 3 phase one? But if the UMC can't handle it, I might splash out and buy one.

 

[pp61]

Normally the car charger comes with a red 3 phase 16 A plug too. Just have a 3 phase CEE plug installed and you can charge with the Tesla charger.
Worst case you need red adapter from Tesla.

 

[Tevvy]

Yes I don't recall seeing a red adapter with my UMC only a blue one (which I'm currently using). I'll enquire with Tesla as to how much a red adapter will be and if it's compatable with my version of the UMC.

One more question though. How comes I get 32amp at the moment, but yet with 3 phase I'm down to 16amp? Might be a dumb question sorry I'm thick when it comes to this.

Thanks all.

 

[Mark-R]

Thanks, yes he's 100% it's 3 phase.

I'm not sure if 22kw is needed, but why not if I can. But if he's going to just install another £10 commando socket, I might as well get a 3 phase one? But if the UMC can't handle it, I might splash out and buy one.

According to Home Charging Installation, the maximum AC charge rate for an S (after May 2016) is 16.5kW. Another alternative is Tesla’s own Wall Connector which can use 3 phase.

 

[Tevvy]

Even worse than Mark R said. According to this page, I have a Gen 1 UMC. Even with the red adapter, I'm only going to get 11kw (30mph) so I don't think it's worth the bother of getting the 3 phase connected.

Tesla Mobile Connector (sometimes referred to as a UMC / Universal Mobile Connector) Explained including Gen 1 & Gen 2 differences

 

[Tevvy]

Turns out my car options say I have a 72amp charger on my car. What does this mean in terms of home charging? Sorry to be thick again

 

[stonecoldrmw]

According to Home Charging Installation, the maximum AC charge rate for an S (after May 2016) is 16.5kW. Another alternative is Tesla’s own Wall Connector which can use 3 phase.

The Tesla wall connector is capable of up to 22KW on 3 phase. When I had mine installed, the electrician (who was Tesla recommended) told me the difference which is basically on regular residential properties, you generally will only have single phase and will get 7kw. but if the property has 3 phase, then strap in at 22kw.

I say, if you have it, then go for it

 

[arg]

Turns out my car options say I have a 72amp charger on my car. What does this mean in terms of home charging? Sorry to be thick again

You won't have a 72A charger on a UK car. That was the USA spec for the higher power charger available on ModelX/post-facelift ModelS. The equivalent on European cars was 24A three-phase.

So assuming you do in fact have the higher-spec charger, your highest possible AC charging rate is 24A * 3 phases * 230V = 16.5kW.

If you charge on single phase your maximum is 32A * 230V = 7.4kW (ie. what you have already). This is the same for using the UMC, Tesla WC, or any other standard single-phase chargepoint.

If you get the three-phase (red commando) adapter for the UMC, and you install a 16A red commando socket to match, you will get 16A * 3 phases * 230V = 11.0kW (50% faster).

If you install a Tesla WC (or equivalent third-party 3-phase unit), you can get 24A * 3 phases * 230V = 16.5kW (225% faster than now, or 50% faster than the UMC with three phase).


All of this assumes you have large amounts of space capacity and suitable switchgear. It is not uncommon for a house to have a three-phase supply but only single-phase consumer units etc. For example, one phase for each floor, or one phase for all the normal domestic uses, and the other two phases used for night storage heating. An installation like that would need significant rearrangement of the existing installation to give you a three phase feed to your chargepoint. Or it might be a three-phase supply but only at 60A per phase, in which case finding a phase with 32A spare on it may be problematic and the 16A three-phase is actually easier to provide.

 

[Tevvy]

Thanks Arg. Is this 100% accurate. i.e. I am never going to get 22kw from any charger at home (even with 3 phase)? I definitely have the higher spec charger in the car.

If so, I'm not even going to bother. I'll just stick with my free 7.4kw charger which came with the car.

 

[arg]

Thanks Arg. Is this 100% accurate. i.e. I am never going to get 22kw from any charger at home (even with 3 phase)? I definitely have the higher spec charger in the car.

If so, I'm not even going to bother. I'll just stick with my free 7.4kw charger which came with the car.

If you have a facelift Model S, then the maximum possible is 16.5kW. That's still 2.25 times faster than you have now. 22kW is only possible with the pre-facelift Model S (and a couple of non-Tesla cars like the Renault Zoe).

Also, depending on conditions at the new house, it's possible there isn't capacity to simply install a socket for 32A of single phase like you have at the present house; it's unlikely (though faintly possible) that the three-phase would work out cheaper, but if the single phase is complicated it may not be that much more expensive.

 

[Tevvy]

Thanks again Arg. Thanks for the info, but there's no point then. Overnight it is. Whether it charges in 10 hours or 5 makes no difference to me. I'll stick with the blue UMC connector.

Out of interest, if mine is the higher spec charger and that's max 16.5kw, what does the standard charger give a max of?

 

[arg]

Out of interest, if mine is the higher spec charger and that's max 16.5kw, what does the standard charger give a max of?

16A * 3 phases * 230V = 11kW.

That was the original standard charger on the first european version Model S; if you paid extra, you got two of them fitted so 22kW. At the start of EU deliveries, the car couldn't do 32A single phase unless you bought the 2nd charger option, but this didn't worry many people as 3-phase is much more common elsewhere in Europe than it is in UK homes. For UK deliveries, all the cars physically had the 2nd charger fitted in order to enable the 32A/7.4kW charging that's "standard" here, but if you hadn't paid for it there was a software lock to stop you charging faster than 11kW.

With Model X, it was originally announced with only approx 11kW charging (40A 240V in USA); early USA customers grumbled and then a "secret" order option to get an upgrade 72A was made available (still only one charger as there's no space for two in Model X); by the time it was released in Europe there were two orderable options of 11kW and 16.5kW. I believe these are just software options on a single hardware design, though it's possible they made a downrated version of it for people only ordering the 11kW option.

When the Facelift Model S appeared, it picked up the new charger design from Model X with the corresponding ratings.

A fairly large proportion of early UK Model S (ie. 2014-15) appear to have ordered the 2nd charger, since at the time people were ordering there were no superchargers and no CHAdeMO adapter, so 22kW for on-the-road charging seemed essential.

 

[pdk42]

And for Model 3 owners, I understand that 11kW is the max AC charge capacity. So, with single phase you'll get 7kW max, but only 11kW if you go to three phase.

 

[Artiste]

And for Model 3 owners, I understand that 11kW is the max AC charge capacity. So, with single phase you'll get 7kW max, but only 11kW if you go to three phase.

Yes, I have a three phase supply and intended getting a 22KW Andersen unit. When I found out I couldn’t get the OLEV grant I decided it wasn’t worth it and just had a 32A commando socket fitted.

And it would have really ticked me off that a friend with a Renault Zoe would have been able to charge at 22KW at my place while my all singing, all dancing M3 was restricted to 11KW.

 

[forest 172]

I had 3 phase rotec installed at work expecting to charge at 22kw. When I finally got my type 2 lead from Tesla last week and tried it out I was surprised to find it only charged at 3* 16amp 11kw.

To be honest it’s a blessing because my fuses are only 40amp on each phase and if it charged at 32 amp on each phase I wouldn’t have been able to use my works compressor, saw and machine at the same time as charging the car

 

[gidster99]

I had 3 phase rotec installed at work expecting to charge at 22kw. When I finally got my type 2 lead from Tesla last week and tried it out I was surprised to find it only charged at 3* 16amp 11kw.

Bear in mind that you should be able to get your Power Network to upgrade your fuse to 100A free of charge (Post lockdown)... i have been in covariance with UK Power Networks who are my provider... i had to fill in a form and am now just waiting for lockdown to be eased for them to come.
To be honest it’s a blessing because my fuses are only 40amp on each phase and if it charged at 32 amp on each phase I wouldn’t have been able to use my works compressor, saw and machine at the same time as charging the car