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Advice on a used Model S 90D
- Thread starter dan_uk
- Start date
Thank you, will add that to my list of things to check on Saturday.
I have some further details I can share:
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I have not found anything that appears off to me but would appreciate any advice if someone notices an issue:
MCU2, Premium audio, "classic" air suspension, nothing looks wrong.
Plan a few bucks for the CCS retrofit as it is not installed yet, this is really becoming mandatory now in Europe, as all V3 superchargers come with this connection only. That also allows you to use all competitors (more flexibility + that may sometimes even be cheaper than Tesla superchargers), it is definitively worth it.
Regarding range, you can have a look there: Degradation
You 199 miles at 90% equals more or less to 354km at 100%. Remembers that degradation is as much related to ageing than mileage. Given my other comments on range measurement accuracy, temperature, BMS drifting etc. I think you're fine. And obviously last supercharge session was done in Feb last year, so looks like supercharging is not often used, which is another good point for the battery.
Plan a few bucks for the CCS retrofit as it is not installed yet, this is really becoming mandatory now in Europe, as all V3 superchargers come with this connection only. That also allows you to use all competitors (more flexibility + that may sometimes even be cheaper than Tesla superchargers), it is definitively worth it.
Regarding range, you can have a look there: Degradation
You 199 miles at 90% equals more or less to 354km at 100%. Remembers that degradation is as much related to ageing than mileage. Given my other comments on range measurement accuracy, temperature, BMS drifting etc. I think you're fine. And obviously last supercharge session was done in Feb last year, so looks like supercharging is not often used, which is another good point for the battery.
huh, my 85D is fine and I don't baby it. No rattles, no creaks. All trim is fine except for some small bubbling of the alcantara on the inside b-pillers. Honestly, my interior looks like the day I bought it at 28k miles now at 105k miles. And I wiped it down and dressed it maybe 6 times...maybe, probably less.
Tesla build quality seems to be dependent on the day, the weather, the crew and the alignment of the stars.
Quick observations based on the photos:
1. That is a fair amount of yellowing around the screen. It can sometimes be corrected (or made better) with the UV light treatment.
2. I'd be interested in seeing what the alert is (red triangle). Could be anything from a low keyfob battery, bad USB thumb drive unable to record video, to a failing 12v or something else more serious. Errors can be viewed by clicking on the triangle or by looking in the instrument cluster.
3. 199 miles @ 90% seems low to me. In the US, the 75D is rated for 259 miles new which would work out to more than 20% degradation(225 miles @ 100%). I admittedly don't know if the overseas range figures are different.
As long as the range works for you and the numbers are good, I am sure the car will be a good fit.
1. That is a fair amount of yellowing around the screen. It can sometimes be corrected (or made better) with the UV light treatment.
2. I'd be interested in seeing what the alert is (red triangle). Could be anything from a low keyfob battery, bad USB thumb drive unable to record video, to a failing 12v or something else more serious. Errors can be viewed by clicking on the triangle or by looking in the instrument cluster.
3. 199 miles @ 90% seems low to me. In the US, the 75D is rated for 259 miles new which would work out to more than 20% degradation(225 miles @ 100%). I admittedly don't know if the overseas range figures are different.
As long as the range works for you and the numbers are good, I am sure the car will be a good fit.
The US and European (EU) rated mile values are different, and the terms Tesla used, at least back in the 2016-2017 era were different. US was rated and ideal for the two settings, Europe I believe was rated and typical, by my memory on the exact European terms is a bit foggy (haven't had to look it up for a couple years). The US rated range is based upon an EPA methodology. In Europe it's based upon and NEDC cycle, which was considered to we wildly optimistic, to the point that most in Europe refer to the value known as typical as the more realistic. That's the exact opposite where in the US, the rated number is more representative (still optimistic for many) where the Ideal value is a totally worthless, unrealistic, overly optimistic value.
As for the red triangle, that can also be something as simple as having the car plugged in and putting your foot on the brake and trying to put the car into Drive or Reverse.
@dan_uk - I did a little poking around. It appears the old NEDC reference has now been replaced by the WLTP as what's used in Europe for stating vehicle range/fuel consumption. That appears to have been phased in between 2017 and 2019 will all vehicle since Jan 2019 required to be stated to the WLTP values. I expect given this is a 2019 MS75D that the values you are seeing are the WLTP reference.
It also appears from some data I found from one EU electric vehicle site that the Tesla WLTP rated range value is essentially the same as the EPA value. One reference shows a MS 75D at 259 mi for EPA range versus 260 mi for WLTP range. If I use what you show as 199 mi at what looks like 90%, that infers about 221 mi at 100%. Compare that to a new nominal range of 259-260 mi and you have about 15% degradation.
I've not ever used the values listed on the Teslalogger.de site linked by @Anth89 but if you compare to it you'd see this car shows maybe a little below the mean for what is shows for a 75D at 20k miles (their plot suggests more like 230 mi range at 20k miles) but it also does not fall outside the population. As he also stated, degradation is also a function of calendar aging. The range of 221 mi at 100% would be more similar to what it suggests for a car of about 50k miles, which might be more commonly expected for a car that's about 4 years old.
Not sure if any of that helps, but that's my interpretation of the numbers you've shared.
It also appears from some data I found from one EU electric vehicle site that the Tesla WLTP rated range value is essentially the same as the EPA value. One reference shows a MS 75D at 259 mi for EPA range versus 260 mi for WLTP range. If I use what you show as 199 mi at what looks like 90%, that infers about 221 mi at 100%. Compare that to a new nominal range of 259-260 mi and you have about 15% degradation.
I've not ever used the values listed on the Teslalogger.de site linked by @Anth89 but if you compare to it you'd see this car shows maybe a little below the mean for what is shows for a 75D at 20k miles (their plot suggests more like 230 mi range at 20k miles) but it also does not fall outside the population. As he also stated, degradation is also a function of calendar aging. The range of 221 mi at 100% would be more similar to what it suggests for a car of about 50k miles, which might be more commonly expected for a car that's about 4 years old.
Not sure if any of that helps, but that's my interpretation of the numbers you've shared.
As it appears it has been not driven some time then I would not be such concerned about the degradation. It is certainly lower than usual but I can assure that with your continuous use and everyday drive you will woken up the correct BMS measurement and the car will get back to the real available mails. I can give my example, second owner of 2016 70D and on picking up it four years ago from third party dealer shop it had 207 miles on 100%. I did accepted this and drove home, 1000miles from the shop on the first day of ownership. To my surprise after the two days trip, I had to take ferry to get to home, it stared to get back actual mileage. So by this regular driving the car did got back approximately 18 miles on 100% and this has been constant since then. Maybe now by this winter, which has been guite cold and long, I see that the full amount is stating to get some degradation and the full amount has got to about 219 miles. Also have not done such long distance drive since. Around 71k miles on the clock…
Yours selected car does look quite nice, very low mileage and nice colour as well. Good luck on the purchase and happy miles!
Thank you for this response, I actually went ahead and bought the car today, and seeing the first post mention 15% degradation I was feeling quite bad about it. The car was up for around 5k less than anything else and I have been fairly paranoid awaiting a bad surprise. I could find no fault with the car itself and its in really nice condition and enjoyed the drive home.
@PCMc - thank you for taking the time to look into the range as well!
Will post an update once I get a bit more experience with it, feels like there's loads to do and currently only have regular 13amp charging option at home at the moment
Congrats.
Now fix the screen and do the CCS retrofit. and then just drive and enjoy this great car.
Don't worry about degradation. After a few months you'll end up with the same conclusion than all of us... your car probably just has the average fleet degradation! You can use the Tessie app for that, works quite well.
Now fix the screen and do the CCS retrofit. and then just drive and enjoy this great car.
Don't worry about degradation. After a few months you'll end up with the same conclusion than all of us... your car probably just has the average fleet degradation! You can use the Tessie app for that, works quite well.
Thank you!
Had a bit of a nightmare today, the dealer only had about 60% charge on it and I currently only have 10amp wall charging available for overnight.
I went out this morning a good 40-50 miles away and thought i'd be able to find a charging option on the way home but without the CCS there was no Tesla SC available. I then proceeded to drive around London looking for a type 2 only to find out I have no cable for it. Barely made it to a friends house to wall charge a few hours to get home. We both feel like it's just a bit of a bad start and lack of information on our part that led to the situation and certainly learnt a lot.
The good news is i'm working on a better home charging solution and have ordered the CCS adapter which should make things a lot smoother.
Tesla also honoured the remaining 3 weeks of warranty and the car is booked in for the screen repair and a recall on the frunk latch. Also requested a full check on the car to see if there are any further issues I can get resolved whilst the warranty remains.
@dan_uk - RE your comment about driving around London looking for a charger ... On screen navigation should show you the available charging locations within range, but another great source of information is plugshare. I just checked and here's what I see showing for London area. Note that you can filter on plug type. I've filtered this to only sites that show as supposedly the Tesla connector vs. ccs. Now, I'm based in US, realized the connector type Tesla uses in EU is different than US, so not absolutely certain if this is perfectly accurate, but can be a helpful resource when you are looking for non-Tesla charging locations.
Enjoy your car. I hope you enjoy it for many years.
Enjoy your car. I hope you enjoy it for many years.
@dan_uk seems we're all doing the same mistakes.
When I bought my 100D my return trip was 1000km long. The seller told me he was giving a T2-cable with the car, but it appears that this cable was for hybrids only, limited to 3.7KW. And on top of that the hotel where I would sleep had a charge point, but which was not working... on top of that this was during the Covid curfew!
Luckily there were enough V2 superchargers with the T2 cable, I just lost more time than initially thought... But the CCS retrofit was the first thing I did on that car.
About that retrofit, please notice that this is not only an adapter, Tesla will also modify the charging hardware of your car.
To find charging locations in Europe you can also use the Chargemap app, it is the most complete app I've tested so far.
When I bought my 100D my return trip was 1000km long. The seller told me he was giving a T2-cable with the car, but it appears that this cable was for hybrids only, limited to 3.7KW. And on top of that the hotel where I would sleep had a charge point, but which was not working... on top of that this was during the Covid curfew!
Luckily there were enough V2 superchargers with the T2 cable, I just lost more time than initially thought... But the CCS retrofit was the first thing I did on that car.
About that retrofit, please notice that this is not only an adapter, Tesla will also modify the charging hardware of your car.
To find charging locations in Europe you can also use the Chargemap app, it is the most complete app I've tested so far.
Thank you, have downloaded that app now and I like that it can filter on not just cable type but whether the point is tethered, very useful for me at the moment.
The car is off to Tesla tomorrow to get the screen repair and general diagnostic. The CCS adapter should arrive later this week so i'll have to schedule an appointment to get that done soon as well.
I have given up worry about degradation however I noticed I had set the battery to typical view rather than rated. Upon changing it to rated the miles went up significantly , looking at 243 miles with 1hr10min left of charging on the 10A, this does not seem realistic to me at all however which setting should be used to work out degradation? It seems much better looking at this way at least
The car is off to Tesla tomorrow to get the screen repair and general diagnostic. The CCS adapter should arrive later this week so i'll have to schedule an appointment to get that done soon as well.
I have given up worry about degradation however I noticed I had set the battery to typical view rather than rated. Upon changing it to rated the miles went up significantly , looking at 243 miles with 1hr10min left of charging on the 10A, this does not seem realistic to me at all however which setting should be used to work out degradation? It seems much better looking at this way at least
Regarding which of typical or rated to look at to track degradation.
This is like asking whether you should use km or miles. They are unit transformations of each other. The key point is you need to look at it in respect to the correct reference point. If the value you're using for new is the rated value, then you should use rated. Otherwise, it's just like you're mixing km and miles.
The most important point in my personal opinion is to use a consistent method. It's less about the absolute values you calculate and more about the trend. If you look at the plot I included in an early post, I don't claim that this metric is perfectly accurate. The important point for me is that it's a consistent metric, I've taken steps possible to minimize noise in the measurement, and watch what the trend looks like over time. As long as my battery is trending in a stable, predictable way, then life is good. However, if I suddenly see over the course of a short period of time a big step change, then that's my flag that something has potentially happened to my battery.
Enjoy your car.
This is like asking whether you should use km or miles. They are unit transformations of each other. The key point is you need to look at it in respect to the correct reference point. If the value you're using for new is the rated value, then you should use rated. Otherwise, it's just like you're mixing km and miles.
The most important point in my personal opinion is to use a consistent method. It's less about the absolute values you calculate and more about the trend. If you look at the plot I included in an early post, I don't claim that this metric is perfectly accurate. The important point for me is that it's a consistent metric, I've taken steps possible to minimize noise in the measurement, and watch what the trend looks like over time. As long as my battery is trending in a stable, predictable way, then life is good. However, if I suddenly see over the course of a short period of time a big step change, then that's my flag that something has potentially happened to my battery.
Enjoy your car.
If able try to return this additional adapter that you purchased. You will get that same one with the CCS retrofit from Tesla and there is nothing to do with the separate one (except if you loos one).
I have used Typical settings on Energy Display which is more realistic and might be similar to the Rated settings in States.
And do not underestimate that 10A one phase charging option that you currently have. It’s all to your individual acceptance, depending on what can be used from your residential distribution box. I was able to install Tesla HPWC (HighPowerWallConnector) and needed to adjust the power rating to 8A (so 5,5 kW) as this is on my existing three phase (max 16A) setup. There is nothing wrong with the single phase option, I can use the same on my workplace and they have adjusted that to 13A (so 3,0 kW). You only need to get used to it, it will take some time but you have that always available.
Here is one explanation what can be achieved on your domestic setup. I do believe that the same is applied in UK, that schuko connector is the regular EU type single phase plug/connector. According to your data you have 2,3kW power on your setup:
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Thank you for the detail information, I agree that typical is much closer to reality and it was mainly to understand how to work out my degradation but @PCMc answered that for me.
I checked the Tesla webpage and confirmed by buying the adapter I get the CCS retrofit included:
I am glad I did check though as I would have been fairly upset if I had bought a £211 adapter I couldn't even use yet
, I know the price used to be closer to £450 so I did think that maybe I had made a mistake!As it stands I have no Type 2 to Type 2 Charging cable either, but I think once I get this done I won't even need that anymore.
As for home charging, I agree, as I get 2.3kW (10 A) and its not as bad as I thought, but I could see myself having difficulties in some situations where I have daily longer journeys and the charging solution just not keeping up with demand. I also have just joined a special EV Energy tariff which gives me a short window in the middle of the night to utilise cheaper charging and I don't think I could remain within that window at 2.3kW.
I currently have single phase 100A into the house, so I will be going for 7.4kW charging which I should have installed early next week, we do have 3 phase to newer homes out here but I think it would be overkill for me.
I ended up going for a "smart" charger, mainly because its future proof for solar panel additions in the future - EV Charger | #1 British Made, Solar EV Charger ⚡ myenergi
Throughly enjoying the car so far, I did have an incident where I slid across black ice last night in the MS turning into my road, for a second I thought the steering had just given up, but I managed to control my way in safely and I ended up doing the same thing in the Honda too which never happens so I can't blame the new car at all for that.
Switching back to my Type R , I realised how archaic it felt already, the steering was very heavy, I had to start braking again and it actually takes effort to build up speed. Worst of all, I could smell the petrol fumes. I will still keep that car and i'm sure I will enjoy it again once the excitement of the new car dies down 😅
Hi Dan,
If your car hasn't had the CCS upgrade yet the display in the car should only show you SC's that have both connectors. For example the ones I use in Canary Wharf have I think 8 of the newer V3 CCS only chargers but also 4 of the older ones (V2 I think) with both CCS and the type 2 looking connector. You can use these and will get similar speeds at a supercharger as you will on CCS, unless you're sharing power with the stall next to you. There are still loads of these superchargers around the country you can use before you get the CCS upgrade.
Montgomery Street E14 5EW London United Kingdom
Driving Directions
Tesla Support 01628 450 660
Charging
8 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 250kW
4 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 150kW
CCS Compatibility
If your car hasn't had the CCS upgrade yet the display in the car should only show you SC's that have both connectors. For example the ones I use in Canary Wharf have I think 8 of the newer V3 CCS only chargers but also 4 of the older ones (V2 I think) with both CCS and the type 2 looking connector. You can use these and will get similar speeds at a supercharger as you will on CCS, unless you're sharing power with the stall next to you. There are still loads of these superchargers around the country you can use before you get the CCS upgrade.
London, UK - Canary Wharf
Canada Square Car ParkMontgomery Street E14 5EW London United Kingdom
Driving Directions
Tesla Support 01628 450 660
Charging
8 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 250kW
4 Superchargers, available 24/7, up to 150kW
CCS Compatibility
